Musclemagic

That box looks like it's getting lucky with the chick...

 

I need to get a dragonborn costume.... >|

A different thing:Tanks as DPS or How much dmg will a Tank be able to deal compared to a pure DPS?If we take a look at all the dmg reduction a Tank has compared to normal DPS.There would be more Armor, more HP, higher HP reg more incomming healing, dmg reduction, better blocking.And if you take a look at the skills there aren't many heavy DPS skills but lot's of utility or defensive skills.So do you guys think that a Tank will be able to keep up with a pure DPS?

 

I think tanks will do plenty of DPS because they'll get the first hits as well as the most AOE damage in (probably). I feel like tanks are OP when it comes to min/max of overall numbers, the problem is that they need to put in a lot more stam/MP because their regen is so much lower from Heavy Armor.

 

I actually think that a tank in Medium might be the best choice if you plan on soloing a lot, because you'll be able to use like 20% more abilities, yeah? What do you think? They definitely won't do as much as a pure dps, but I think they'll do quite a lot in comparison to how much they can survive..which is why I think whichever alliance has the most tanks is the one that will win the most Cyrodiil battles..which is why I'm going Daggerfall.

First of all you shouldn't compare Spiked Armor with Magma Armor.Better compare Spiked Armor with Obsidian Shield.Spiked Armor gives you a reduction of 30% a 5% passiv reg + 12% heal while activeWhile Obsidian Shield has a reduction of 40% costs less is an AoE and gives you 5% stamina backYou take Dragon Blood for the strong self heal of 25% you wouldn't try to spam it for the reg bonus.

 

Yeah, I meant Spiked/Obsidian, not Magma- My bad. XD

I agree that you should take something from Draconic Power for the passives, but I think Dragon Blood's the better choice if you're going to take Obsidian Shield (I get them all confused, I keep meaning to take Obsidian + Blood... I actually think we're agreeing on this? XD)

DK build I could see myself using: Redguard, S+B/Bow, Heavy Armor.

S+B -

Fiery Reach

Inferno

Spiked Armor

Ash Field

Defensive Posture

+Magma Armor.

 

Bow -

Volley

Molten Weapons

Dragon Blood

Reflective Scale

Snipe

+Powercharge (works well with Molten Weapons)

It has to be right, there's no way that 40% + 30% + 20% reduction is going to apply like that. 100% x .4 = 60%, x.3 = 42%, x.2 = 33.6% damage taken rather than 10%. It's still really good, for sure, but it's not as good as other distributions because on top of it being multiplicative there's also going to be soft-caps if not even hard-caps within every stat...so you'll want to divvy it up as even as possible.

 

Edit: Just take obsidian shield instead of Spiked Armor and you'll still get Helping Hands, yeah?

Oh I forgot, I really like your build the only thing is I prefer a self heal instead of another dmg reduction skill (Spiked Armor) but that's something which will need some endgame testing before we can say what will be better.

You guys aren't really seeing the math behind it, I don't think...

Say you have 1000 hp (to make #'s easier). You take 30% less damage through one of your passives... then you take 40% less through another passive. That's 40% of 70% (new total instead of 100%, because 30% less already).. meaning you only get another 28% damage reduction off from keeping that 40% reduction spell up. Another one added...like 20% is only (100-30 = 70, -28 = 42%.. 42 x .2 = 8.4) 8.4% less damage taken from keeping up a spell 100% of the time.. definitely not worth it.

Casting Obsidian Shield every 20s, more if you're under attack, isn't nearly as good as Dragon Blood because of diminishing returns.

Honestly, I'm just telling you guys right now, you should be taking Spiked Armor and Dragon Blood and no other damage reducer.. unless you're using Immovable as an ST suck..

Use Ash Cloud instead, and it doesn't have diminishing returns.

Dodge

Chance for enemy to miss

Reduced damage of enemy

Resistances

Armor

Flat % Self-Reduction

Flat damage reduction per hit taken

Due to diminishing returns, whichever one of these is the lowest % of your total damage reduction (based on total health for the flat numbers) is the one that you'll want to raise at any given time to maximize your passive survivability.

Soaks, I think your build is pretty much spot on for PVE. I really really like it, it's almost exactly what I'd use if I was going to PVE (I always tank PVE).

I don't think it's the best for full on mitigation/damage output, but I think that it overcomes a lot of the mob mechanics (esp boss mechanics) that I picture dungeons having. I think overcoming those mechanics is the heart of making dungeons run smoothly, which is why DK's make the best tanks and everyone who disagrees is a fool.

Here's the thing about group fights.. I've lead a ton of high rated (2400+ mmr) RBGs in WoW, and placement is everything.. Overextending is death, you're not going to ever really WANT to shield charge. You're always going to want to pull the kill target close to your own group rather than extend yourself. It's a hundred times more effective in group fights, so unless it's a small battle (like 3v3 or less) then shield charge isn't as good of a choice.

 

Being able to place yourself where your teammates are going to AOE and then you pull an extra guy in can make such a huge difference, and something like Ash Cloud to keep them in there is nothing short of amazing. Dark Talons might be one of the best PVP techniques possible, pair it with an archer using Volley and a temp spamming Solar Flare... It only will work with placement though, get them in a choke and use Fiery Reach over and over on all the guys outside of the area.. It's pretty much a required skill for DK PVP IMO...

I can understand where you're coming from on this one, but how would we lay siege to a castle or keep without them? I mean I would hate to have to sit in front of a gate with 20 other people and slowly chop away at it until it finally broke. Walls would be ridiculous. You would need some mighty magical explosions to take out walls and then there would be the cost of these spells and the OP nature of them if used on other players (most likely be one-shot spells).

I could see them getting rid of ballistas, catapults and trebuchets if they instead gave us ladders and/or siege towers to place against the walls and thereby have some method of scaling them. I cannot see a battering ram taking away from PvP fights and the reliance on strong builds to win fights. After all, I don't think the battering rams will have an affect in opponents.

Catapults and ballistas may do large amounts of damage to enemy players for what seems like little skill to use but remember they are slow and provide much needed AoE damage to stationary enemy formations and are probably a necessary counter to preventing large amounts of stacking and combat solely happening in front of gates. Plus it gives the noobs something to use while the better players head in on foot.

I do see problems such as when ballistas and catapults focus fire the tops of gateways and make it near impossible to fire arrows and spells from the top of the wall but in some ways this expands the type of combat seen in sieges because it necessitates the defenders to employ troops to rush the siege engines from behind, build opposing siege equipment, make sallies out of the gate for quick counters to break what siege weapons they can, use squads of NBs to neutralise poorly defended siege equipment, etc. Plus not having something to cover your advance as the attackers can be a touch too irritating. After all, when a defender on the wall starts taking a beating at range, he/she can slip behind the wall and regen. Cannot say the same about the attackers. And at the very least, there becomes a spot for support-style players who can cast "Siege Shield" for groups.

In summary, I don't think they will be exploited as high-damage hits on defenceless trapped opponents or even have a great enough speed of projectile or rate of fire to do so, but rather will make it a little more tactical and allow a little more excitement with the wall breaks and explosions that ensue in their wake. But then again, that is fine so long as they are balanced of course. And there will be nothing more satisfying than raiding the back lines of an enemy force just as they are setting up their siege equipment and thereby wasting the resources they just spent to acquire them. Though of course, back to balancing, hopefully they aren't a spammable cheap resource but rather take some effort or expense to acquire because you will be correct in saying they detract from gameplay if they are too cheap and readily available.

And if you're getting hit too much by them while engaging the enemy on foot and it's ruining your normal pvp - then as the Spartans say: "Fight in the shade".  There will always be spots they can't hit you under.

P.S. I agree about the soul gems/shards issue. It has great potential just to get annoying casting soul trap constantly while leveling...

 

Ah, yeah.. I meant gems not shards.

 

Thanks for the good post, I didn't put much real thought into it until I read what you wrote.

I guess I feel like in most games with siege weapons the good people know how to use it and the bad people don't even try to use it, so unless I'm in a premade I always end up piloting vehicles when I should be the one out in the battlefield...it helps win the battle, but I dislike it.

You're completely right, I don't know the mechanics of it.. It could actually be amazing. If it's like..we need to move a battering ram to the gate, that could be cool.. I hope it's not like, "Spawned" things that we lose if we don't end up using though.

 

This is what I'd really like to see-- something like a timer(think bomb-deactivation in an FPS) on a battering ram that's always in place that we can activate if there's enough of us to break down a door. The rest of the battle would be fighting through hallways and such rather than trying to break down walls. I like the idea of ladders to storm walls, too. That's a great idea!

 

I do admit it adds just another layer of strategy to the game, but it always distracts me from my pwning... I'd rather storm the keep on foot like a total badass, haha

 

"Emperor" just got a new perspective for me.. it'll basically be like the battle's boss... I keep picturing Isle of Conquest in WoW where the emperor would be the boss inside the keep after we make it in.

On the topic of stamina/magicka regeneration: I agree with what everyone has been saying in regard to the biggest limitation to actives is simply the stamina/magicka consumption vs. regeneration. In light of that, does anyone know how much blocking consumes? It's hard to figure out how much stamina to leave when working on actives and trying to consider stamina used on dodges, blocking, bracing, sprinting etc. And I have a feeling that if you don't allow some room in your stamina regen to factor in these things and instead consume all your stamina through the use of actives then your character may be at severe disadvantage without having the resources for at least one of the activities I listed.

If someone at lvl 50 has a shield, the shield + one-hand passives, maybe even an enchant to reduce cost of blocking - how much roughly would they be depleting their stamina for every block?

I don't think blocking/bracing/sprinting/dodge rolling will be that stamina intensive when we're lvl 50.. but just a guess.

I have a feeling Marked Target, though expensive to cast, will at times be crucial for bringing some foes down. If you have a DK in Heavy armour popping off Spiked Armour every 17s and Immovable every 8 who also happens to have decent in-combat Health regen - you're going to have real problems dps'ing through the mitigation. In fact, I would doubt any NB's burst dps would ever get such a DK close enough to "low health" for them to even use Assasin's Blade and take advantage of the DW passive. In a case like that, without Marked Target, I would think that a NB would just be forced to ignore the DK and stay stealthed or die every time...

I agree, the defensives in this game are so much stronger than the offensives that it's ridiculous for someone with a dps build to try and 1v1 a tank.. Especially because it's not like taking a defensive ability makes you do less damage- Yes, it takes up some of your mp/st, but it appears to be way more powerful than each offensive attack. I personally think they need to increase the stam/mag cost of defensives... right now Healing is a bit gimp seeming too... but I'm sure with all the internal high-end testing they're doing they'll get it all sorted by launch.

I went off on a few topics here, but I totally agree with your post.

Personally I don't like Nightblade builds without Shadow Cloak (invisibility) but I see a major problem with your Nightblade builds you may dish out lot's of dmg but if someone survives your burst you lack survivability.

Cripple as your only "kite" ability is a bit thin.

Yeah, I just think shadowcloak is almost worthless. Different playstyles.

Hopefully between cripple and scatter shot I'll be able to get away from 1v1's with bow-speed.. at least until Ult's up and then I can slip away.

Against any other DPS though in 1v1 I think this is the strongest, against a caster DW will take them out easy and against a melee in medium or another archer.. there's no stronger 1v1 build unless you're going for a bloodknight build... which you are! XD

PvP:

Role With this you are going to run around on the battlefield and protect your allies. So if someone attacks 1 of your healer you rush to him and either kill him or make him run away.

2H: Critical Charge, Inferno, Dragon Blood, Momentum, Immoveable; Magma Armor

S/S: Shield Charge/Fiery Reach, Inferno, Dragon Blood, Defensive Posture, Obsidian Shield; Magma Armor

Playstyle:

You want to try to keep up your buffs (Obsidian Shield, Momentum, Immoveable) use Inferno when you have Magicka and are close to an enemy this is an ability you will use often but most of the time only for a short time. Ones you come closer to a keep you will want to switch Shield Charge for Fiery Reach because with Fiery Reach you can pull players from Keep Walls. Other than that the playstyle is mostly managing your buffs and focusing on the fight.

I see your playstyle, I'm sure it'll work really well but it's too passive for me to enjoy!

I couldn't use a pvp build without Fiery Reach and Searing Strike for single targets and Ash Cloud for groups. They're too strong to pass up.

Check if it gives you more than x% HP compared to the MP cost to keep one of those -x% damage shields active... because of diminishing returns on things, it's a lot better to just have one active for maximum effective HP rather than building your character to be able to use them both at the same time.

1000 hp and 1000 mp, 500 points to place, you can either take 20% less than 70% of your hp (140 hp) and put the 500 points into MP, or you can put 500 points into HP.

That's an extreme example, but you get what I'm saying? You'll need to predict your numbers and see where the tipping point lays.

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As per my previous post, my favorite build so far (temp bow/resto) is going to take both Immovable and Rune Focus but I'm only going to use one or the other usually, and immovable's a stamina sink for me because I can't use much st with resto staff out. You get the difference though? Mine are situation specific while I feel like you have too much overlap so you'll have diminishing returns.

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They need to get rid of Soul Shards..

Soul Shards just add a tedious element to the game. Yes, you need some kind of punishment for ressing on the spot or ressing someone else on the spot... but just make it so you can only spot-res with like 15% of hp/st/mp, and make it cost a ton of mp to res someone else. This way you wouldn't want to do it in combat even if you could cast it in battle.

Or, if anything..keep the soul shards but give us a different way to get them. Casting Soultrap on everything 10 seconds before it dies will get annoying and then at clvl50 you get them automatically anyway so what's the point of doing it while leveling up??

So far I love everything about the game except for this one little part... Oh...and I don't like siege weapons in any game..I think you should be able to use the character you worked hard for exclusively rather than getting a character all built up and then playing a Chess-Game at high end PVP instead of actually using that character. How would PVE be if you just used random weapons and crap to win high-level dungeons instead of character synergy within a group? :S

But that's off topic. I think they need to change the soul shard mechanic... Discuss?

Khajiit – Medium&Light Armor – NB – DW/Bow – Alchemist

I chose Khajiit for the extra crit damage and crit rating, I’m going to use a dagger in off-hand for 5% and then bow gives 5% passive crit chance as well. I went with medium and light armor simply so I can cast abilities more often with the regeneration passives that those armors give. I’ll be alchemy because NB gets +20% potion effectiveness.

DW- Against casters - The more Assassination abilities, the higher my % crit chance.

- Teleport Strike – M - Gap Closer

- Assassin’s Blade – M – Big finishing damage

-  Death Stroke – U - Amazing Single Target Ult

- Twin Slashes – S - Dmg + really heavy DoT

- Flurry – S - Big damage

- Hidden Blade – S - Interrupt/slow

Bow- Against melee - Kite and kill

- Cripple – M – Slow + DoT

- Strife – M – DoT + HoT

- Summon Shade – M – DoT + Weaken

- Scatter Shot – S – KB + Disorient

- Haste – M – DPS buff, need an assassination ability on bar to get +20% crit damage (and 3% more crit’s nice.)

- Consuming Darkness – U - Probably the best “oh $h!t†button in ESO..

 

I know I've done this build a few times, but I do think it's probably THE best 1v1 build.

 

Assassin's blade hitting for 20% extra damage (from DW passives) = wtf pwn.

This is why anyone who chooses a class or even a race without looking at all the passives for the weapons and everything they want is going to suck... not only will their stam/mag/health ratios be totally off..for example, if you're a high elf and you're in light armor it changes everything compared to a khajiit in heavy armor for example.

 

This is why I LOVE this game already! HUGE skill curves when it comes to character design, which is what it should be all about- The character. ^.^

It sounds like actives are going to be fairly limited in use, because you wont have the stamina/magic points to spam them... which makes passives pretty important because they will always be there. And personally I lean towards skills that aren't so decisive by themselves but are always there to help (stat bonuses, passive regen, armor buffs, etc). It can help make a character very resilient especially in long battles. You wont be stun locking and killing enemies in 10 seconds when everything goes perfect, but usually you will be alive when others are dead.

 

Definitely! Passives > Actives so much in this game it's ridiculous. When building your character you need to look at all the passive options you have and then make the best 2 bars you can with actives that are bolstered by the most amount of passives you can. This is how min/maxing works in this game compared to others, choosing actives that are not only a perfect balance, but are bolstered by passives more than any other build..that's what will truly make your character the strongest!

That depends on weaponpocs and thier power. If there was a stun/Silenceproc at 5% rate i would rather play d/d than d/s.

 

If it's PPM then it'll be better to have slow because you can almost control when to hit to get a proc. But yeah, if it's a flat percent and the damage isn't scaled then faster's better in that regard.

 

The cool thing about Dual Wield is that you can switch your weapons whenever you want, so chances are that you'll end up using the best 1h you can in mh and 2nd best in oh at all times--it'll probably outweigh any passive of proc benefits. Lots and lots of time to test it because you aren't ever trapping yourself into daggers or swords or anything, you can swap with no repercussions! ^.^

High elf/ nightblade shadow/ two weapon fighting with dagger has main/ medium armorThis fit appear pretty cool

 

You might want a slower weapon as main with a fast dagger as off-hand. Dagger in offhand gives you +5% crit chance, meaning the slower (bigger) hits with mainhand will be bigger % damage since it's mainhand.

 

Yeah, they will add up to be the same..and it depends on your build, but in most situations slower weapons outdamage faster. And crit in offhand..idk, it all depends on the rest of your build, but crit builds will probably do really well with dual wield.

I am a little concerned that the racial bonuses are strong enough that it really pushes players to choose the race that fits their character template. Now in ESO that wasn't an issue, but in an MMO with 3 alliances, it might be. I mean, unless you just hate elves, if you are playing with mage character with a destruction staff, how do you not go with Altmer? etc etc. It really has the potential to pigeon-hole players who are afraid of being 'gimped' if they choose a race whose skills are less compatible with their character template.

 

I love the idea of racial bonuses that make the different races have different feels, but at the same time, these racial bonuses are so strong and (in many cases) so one dimensional, it could turn out to be very limiting. Do you really want an Aldmeri Dominion with (mostly) all Altmer mages and all Bosmer archers and all Khajit melee?

 

It definitely pushes players into a category. It's really hard because this will mean each alliance has more of a certain type of character, and whichever type is the strongest in group PVP means that that alliance will win the most battles.

I personally start creating builds by picking a pole of actives I like. Than I think about for what purpose the build is. The passives simply help me to decide what skills make it into the build.I would never pick actives just because of the passives most if them are simply not strong enough to make up for a bad ability.

 

Interesting, I will be doing it opposite. Clear goals, so I don't waste points in things that won't apply. I'm going to level up in PVE using a  very slight variation of my PVP build. Actives help me decide passives, while passives help you decide actives.. interesting! XD

 

Definitely going into class skills first is a good idea, because if you're just using an armor and a weapon it'll get XP anyway. Good call.

Here's a topic I'd like to discuss:

What will be the fastest way to level? Using one tree heavily until it's higher level, and then using the lower level skills on the higher monsters that you'll be fighting in conjunction with your other abilities?

Because it'll be quicker to level something up if it's "catching up" to the monster levels you're fighting...

 

But, on the other hand, if you are more steady then everything will level together...just a bit slower?

 

Overall it shouldn't effect your C.Lvl, just your experience in the skill trees.

 

Or, maybe I have this all backward. Can anyone comment?

Not really that great of a Tank build + some passives give you a bonus for each ability you have on your bar.

 

I think he was just throwing out a quick example rather than really trying to spec.

 

It was a really good post, everyone should be weary of what he said while they're making their initial builds... It's a good idea to use that build until you're maxed on passives* rather than actives, and then start branching out. Otherwise you won't have access to the passives you probably want/need ASAP.

Templar – Heavy Armor – Bow/Resto – Orc

 

Bow

Solar Flare – M

Sun Fire – M

Piercing Javelin – M

Snipe – S

Rapid Maneuver – S

*Berserker Rage – U

 

Resto Staff

Sun Shield – M

Immovable – S

Rune Focus – M

Healing Ritual – M

Regeneration – M

*Barrier – U

 

I definitely enjoy this build more without forcing the 2 weapon skills. Piercing Javelin > Scatter Shot (Not in 2v2/3v3, but in both 1v1 [further range] and in big group fights [more damage for picking off almost-deads] it is better.) and Healing Ritual > Blessing of Protection (with Sun Shield, Immovable, and Rune Focus, it's better to have a more specific heal on top of just Regeneration.)

I'm proud to be in the majority vote right now. (Professionals unite!)

If you have 8 Skilltrees to chose from: 3 class, 1 weapon, 2 guild, 2 PvPyou only want one skill of each tree to get the maximum out of those passivs. If 1 skill gives you 3-5 passivs, you end up having a ton of passiv bonuses if u chose right.p.E.: Fiery Reach, Spiked Armor, Shield Charge, Entropy, Caltrops, Magma Armor would make a decent tankbuild with the maximum amount of passivs used for tanking. plus HA ofc

 

Yupyup, that's why (at least at first) you want to have your active abilities nailed down so that you can fill your passives as quickly as possible. ^.^

 

 

Like I said that's not the case. Maybe that was the case in a very early build they used but the first build showed at a convention allready allowed you to slot 5 actives from your class.The only limitation they have is that you can't use a bow ability without using a bow.

 

Ah, okay. The quakecon video did support 2 weapon / 3 others scenario so I didn't want to rule it out. (And, it wasn't a misconception from GW2, Maria actually said it straight up in 2 interviews--but the interviews were about a year ago now so I didn't know if it was still relevant) I kind of didn't think so, because otherwise people would be talking about it more.

 

 

Hey Musclemagic... I think I may have got that best spec Templar build I was thinking about, looks damn juicy but need to firm up the details bit more and will post, see what you guys think.

 

Btw great thread guys and ideas....

 

I'm stoked to see what you come up with! Right now I'm tweaking mine since we don't need 2 weapon abilities. Like I said in a PM to you, there are only a couple things I'm changing anyway.

I'm probably going to the PS4. So muscles you'll see me there. I have no idea what my PSN could be yet... I went PS1, then Xbox, then 360, but the PS4 looks like it'll win me back. 

 

That being said I might build a PC solely for this game if my room8s also build pc rigs.

 

But I REALLY hope they effectively use the PS4 touchpad. Have you tried it out yet? It's actually legit and not at all gimmicky 

Man, I am SOOO stoked!!!!!!

Something that's been bothering me about other people's builds...--

 

There's no point of having multiple aoe's or single target abilities that aren't DoT's. You really want to be going all utility/set-up/defense/heals and then having one spammable AOE dmg (such as solar flare) and one spammable single-target dmg (like flurry). It's like.. I get that every skill's different, but come on... XD

 

(Most the people here don't do that, so it's not you guys.. it's just bothersome.)

Well, sounds good but I was almost certain that the description of Rune Focus reads as "gain immunity to interrupt effects" which would, in my opinion and comprehension of this description, mean that skills that "interrupt" specifically such as Hidden Blade and basic moves that interrupt (bashing with your shield) would be the only ones you would be immune to, but that hard CC skills likes stuns would still affect you while you were in the aoe of Rune Focus.Just like how interrupts will still affect you if you have Immovable active and not Rune Focus as well despite not being able to be stunned.Unless you plan to have both skills active at the same time of course

 

Rune Focus will only prevent interrupts, but Immovable will prevent "KB and Disabling effects".

I wish I could put in a templar ability (I'd do Healing Ritual instead of Blessing of Protection), but since you're required to use 2 weapon abilities I felt that this was the best substitute--replacing Healing Ritual instead of replacing Sun Shield, Immovable, or Rune Focus. XD

 

 

Oh btw it's a really good build.In an 1vs1 my DK would kick your ass but for beeing Emperor that build will be definitive one of the strongest builds out there.

 

I don't think you'd be able to stick to me hard enough to get the kill, I'd just run away, haha!

Philosophy- STRAIGHT THROUGH TH HEARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT