Musclemagic

Those are criteria under the five main subsection, right? You're not suggesting David branches them out to those, are you?

Exactly, it would just look like-

General

Mechanics

Classes

Alliances

Goals

 

Something like that.

Hey, ask a mod for a proverb. Maybe he'll answer it... And tell him to make it life-changingly awesome.

 

Mod works in mysterious ways.

I was talking to David a while ago and he said he wants to revamp the ESO portion of this site to be more accessible. I think that we're making more narrow-focused threads so we should probably have a way to organize them for newcomers. And, once the site's more populated (it's going to boom during Open Beta) then it will definitely pay off to have more broken down navigation at that time.

 

So, here's my idea for new headers for the ESO branch of the forums:

 

Elder Scrolls Online Forums:

General

• [*]I don't pull out
  

Mechanics

• [*]Weapons [*]Armor [*]Enchantments [*]Skills [*]Stats
  

Classes

• [*]DK [*]NB [*]Sorc [*]Temp [*]Vampire [*]Werewolf
  

Alliance

• [*]Aldmeri [*]Ebonheart [*]Daggerfall
  

Interests

• [*]PvP [*]PvE [*]Professions [*]RP
  

 

Is there anything important missing? (Races would fall under Alliances. Anything else I can think of off the top of my head already falls into one of these categories. It shouldn't get tooooo branched out.)

 

Anyone have other ideas? I think David's secretly a masochist who enjoys working on tedious things, so it's okay to demand really annoying things like this! ^.^ MUAHAHAHA!

Ahaha. Now, if only God was like that.

 

"If only God was." -Fixed

 

BAhaha! It only makes sense that in the Templar thread we'd write some proverbs!

You don't need a mod to change the title. Click "edit", then click "use full editor".

...Oh, but you do need a mod to take care of that double post. Tsk, tsk. That's a demerit from the Llama.

 

I prayed to Mod and Mod answered my prayer. Mod blesses the believers and forsakes the deceivers! Thank you, Mod, for this blessing. It's a sign! It's a sign!! It's a sign!!!....now the word "sign" doesn't look like a word..

This guide assumes you want to maximize your Templar's abilities as a healer first, magic DPS second. It also assumes PVP first, PVE second.

 

The great thing about being a Templar is that you will be the only class who can really heal this effectively, yet your Lycan or Daedra skill trees will be just as effective as other classes because I believe we'll get a preset bar when we transform. So, if you want to DPS then chances are that one of those roles will be really good well rounded DPS and you don't need to worry that Templar's DPS isn't as good as the others..but, their heals will never equal yours.. Temp 4 Life!! (literally) Haha

 

Anyway, on with the guide:

 

WEAR MOSTLY LIGHT ARMOR

 

It seems that the difference between heavy and light armor will be about 18% total damage mitigation (30% vs 12% total). +4% extra mitigation from the heavy bonus, and +Health Regen as well as Healing Received.

 

I think this is comparable to the 28% extra St regen from medium for most St builds, since regen's not worth quite as much as flat mitigation.

 

But, more importantly, I think this means that Light Armor is definitely the way to go for a Temp Healer. Almost 40% more available MP is a lot, especially if you're distributing into MP as your main stat (which, I'd highly advise doing as a healer who can't be incapacitated--Immovable will be the only St ability we take, so it should be applied liberally--meaning that you should never get behind on heals, if you can time your immovables right and early-test your enemies to see if you need to keep Rune Focus up or not.)

 

Taking Light Armor will also make your Solar Flare spamming more effective (assuming that dmg aoe can crit, but also the 5% [in pvp. 7% in pve with full light] extra spell damage is nice all-around.)

 

RESTO STAFF FOR PASSIVES

 

You want one of your bars to be purely for healing, and while it's true that Resto Staff abilities are shitty compared to Restoring Light, the passives support a healing role more than the other weapons. Namely: +15% healing on targets under 30% HP,  and +5% to all healing done.

 

Blessing of Protection is also a good buff as long as you keep your Resto Staff out, which is perfect because it won't be unlocked until Staff reaches a high skill-level...meaning you keep it on your bar while leveling, since keeping weapon/armor abilities on your bar is a waste of skill-experience real estate for your class trees.

 

I'D RECOMMEND BOW FOR SECONDARY BAR

 

It's true that Destro Staff would give you -80 resistances toward enemy if you time it right with a Fire Staff, and that Destro Staff will benefit more from Light Armor +spell damage (maybe). But, I really think Bow might be a better choice if we end up not using much ST with Destro Staff out (since we won't keep Immovable on our Destro Bar).

 

Most notably, a Bow gives you: Weighted Shot: Cheap and long ranged interrupt. Snipe: A way to easily pick people off from a distance. The other active-abilities probably aren't worth taking over Temp abilities.

Passively a bow is great, pretty much all of the passives are used by the character with the bow, rather than having passives that boost the weapon skills themselves.

 

Of course, I think that either Lycan or Daedra will be an awesome secondary bar as a Templar though...but that's just a guess. Based off current info, Bow is probably the best choice for most Templar's other bar.

 

RACE CHOICE:

Race really depends on your playstyle, Stamina isn't as important for PVE as a Templar but you might run out of it pretty quick in PVP while sniping/interrupting or while managing Immovable.

 

Templar benefits from having high MP, so I'd be Breton or Altmer, but it goes back to how you plan on playing your character. Argonian's + 7% healing received is nice, but not worth taking over the +10% MP. 

 

I'd go with your gut, play whichever race you want. The overall difference won't be that much, but I think Breton is the best choice.

 

COOKIE CUTTER SKILLS:

 

Here's an example of a cookie cutter build-

Resto Bar-

• [*]Blessing of Protection - Group Support [*]Siege Shield - Group Support [*]Cleansing Ritual - Spammed Heal [*]Immovable - Anti-incapacitate [*]Rune Focus - Anti-interrupt
  

Bow Bar-

• [*]Sun Fire - Amazing in 1v1, -10% damage done to you, strong damage, -40% speed. [*]Piercing Javelin - Strong damage, cheap knockback. This + Sun Fire = Solo Kite Combo. [*]Solar Flare - Amazing spammable AOE dmg, the +40% damage on next hit helps everyone. [*]Weighted Shot - Interrupts are amazing, especially if you've got a templar casting bullshit like Cleansing Ritual or Solar Flare. Haha! Honestly though, most people in your group won't have an interrupt, and this is one of the best ones. [*]Snipe - Sometimes the Healer's gotta help kill a single-target.
  

Ultimate-

• [*]Warhorn - Really good overall, especially if you think about how much it helps the whole group.
  

 

Sidebar (Alternative spells//skills to buy with extra points, in case you want to substitute them in later):

Backlash: If you are taking a good amount of damage while healing, but you aren't getting too close to dying, then Backlash is a really powerful damage ability that could pick off a lot of idiots, especially in AOE fights where you're taking a steadier stream of damage.

• [*]Entropy gives some extra MP and a weak DOT, +15% damage on next magic ability. If you find yourself running out of MP too much to be consistent, then this is probably worth taking over Snipe...but then I'm sure you'd have excessive ST. Entropy is really good for this build, and might be a necessity-we'll see. [*]

Sun Shield: If you are taking a good amount of damage, but you are getting close to dying (or you are dying frequently) then Sun Shield is an extremely powerful shield and a good thing to have around. [*]Eclipse is really good if you find yourself in 1v1 situations a lot. It works against almost anyone, taking them out of commission for 5 whole seconds--or, if they're baddies, they'll mess themselves up. [*]Arrow Spray might be a better choice than weighted shot, if you want to let your group deal with interrupts and then all you need to deal with is either healing or damaging. The 1-->2 of Solar Flare --> instant Arrow Spray when Solar Flare finishes casting could be a really hard AOE burst. [*]Spear Shards is a good choice for PVE, and if you think you can fit it on your PVP bar then go for it. I think that with Solar Flare spamming, which will be more overall AOE DPS, you don't need it... But, in PVE where it's easier to set things up with the top DPS of the group, 15% buff to them can make a huge difference. [*]Rushed Ceremony is a good choice for PVE when things are really tight and you need to get a heal out instantly. But, in PVP you'll want to be in a bigger group where people are expected to die, you should focus on benefiting the whole group more in this case to prevent the most amount of deaths possible. In raids like this, meters matter, maximize your output and hope that your teammates have set-ups good enough to go defensive when needed. Yes, you should focus on individuals in need if you can, but I'd even leave that to the other group members to CC enemies killing a single target rather than putting it on the heals like in most games. In ESO there's so much survival abilities, this difference is huge.... Anyway, I could theorize about PVP-economics with a utilitarian philosophy all day--but I'm going to save that for my guild <Cyrodiil Squad> for elite PS4 players.. [*]Rapid Maneuver if you have room on your Bow Bar for infiltrating on foot in PVP. Maneuver also helps as ST drain if you don't find yourself using Snipe or Weighted shot enough to use much of it--take advantage of the extra resource. [*]Equilibrium in PVE, because your heals give more Health than they cost, so this is a good trade if you're low on MP. [*]Scatter Shot instead of Piercing Javelin, it's not as good but if your ST is too high then it can help you get balanced. [*]Volley if you find yourself sitting back and AOE-spamming a lot of Spear Shards, Solar Flares..run out of MP, boom--you got an ST AOE. Although, I think if you're able to AOE this often, you're probably not helping your group out that much... Try to leave the damage to the pure-DMG, or take Lycan or Daedra. [*]Annulment is actually pretty good, but it only works against magic damage. [*]You'll really want Soul Trap somewhere until you get Soul Lock. Wherever you can fit it, and maybe only in PVE.

 

Alternative Ults-

• [*]

(Breton) Dragonskin because it might save you a lot. (Altmer) Higborn because when you're out of MP you're screwed. [*]Soul Strike on Bow Bar if they allow you to take an Ult for each bar, it'll help you in 1v1 fights, which you lack killing power in. [*]Barrier might be powerful enough aoe-bubble to be worth taking, but it's only equal to about 3 Healing Rituals--which is actually a lot, but I think that giving everyone 25% more resources might be the better choice for actually winning fights rather than just trying to heal. Although...an extra 10% MP regen is pretty dang nice for this build, so Barrier might be better. I'd say, make someone else take Warhorn and you take Barrier, it helps fill out your niche better anyway.

 

While leveling-

While leveling you'll want to balance out your skills between Aedric Spear, Restoring Light, and Dawns Wrath.

 

Don't use abilities from Armor/Weapons until you have nothing else you need to level up, since having their skills on your bar doesn't increase their leveling speed.

 

Don't base race-choice off of +15% experience, as long as you're not changing your mind about weapons all the time this won't matter at all.

 

When you're level 50 and you unlock the PVP trees, they might allow you to put points into them instantly. But, if not, you'll want to use all of those abilities as much as possible to level them up until you unlock the passives. Make sure you save up points for these - you should have plenty since you're a pro who's focused rather than most scrubs who'll still be figuring things out. You only need 11 points for this.

 

I'll update this by future posts, I'm not very good at editing new information in.. So, if you're just checking this thread, then chances are there might be new information/tactics in the newer posts.

 

Don't be afraid of hurting my feelings. If you can explain yourself, then I'd like to hear as many constructive comments as possible. 

 

Irons- I'm hoping you'll make a DK thread now! ^.^ Someone make a NB or Sorc thread as well, if you're up for it. I think this is the next logical step in our theorycrafting.

they took a great deal away from his lower lip lol.

 

 

 

muscle-I CANNOT WAIT till we get the final skills,because like you i want to be a templar with a similar build,but am now on edge because of what you said about buffs!! (sigh just wish we knew more)

 

Kind of a weird thread for this, haha, but idk, I think Templar will actually do alright as long as they can self-heal better than healing others to make up for the lack of damage negation they get.

 

The problem is that they do AOE heals more than self-heals so in groups the templars are going to get face-raped super fast compared to everyone else, since not only do they have more mitigation but they're getting the templar's heals as well..

And...then, when the templar tries to DPS, it isn't as good because..well..it just doesn't synergize that way right now.

 

We'll figure it out though! I'm definitely going to main a templar and ring-partner with a pure dps.

Are dawn's wrath abilities considered fire or just magic abilities?

 

That would be a wet dream of mine. I've always assumed that they won't be, but I don't think we'll find out until beta unless a source leaks it..but that's kinda unlikely at this point.

Lezbehonest here.. The prior look was cooler. XD

 

 

I do not know if this is the case. Think about the disadvantages of only having buffs on one bar to support your second bar:

 

- Before entering a fight you have to spend more then 5 seconds buffing yourself, 1 second to weapon swap before you can do something to your opponent. This is impossible when you get ambushed. It might be useful for a ranged player in an AvA, but remember that 6 seconds of the duration of your first ability are allready gone.

-  Then there is the cost for casting all the buffs. Placing 5 buffs on yourself will most likely deplete your resources (maybe 3 will even deplete all your magicka), making you pretty useless for another few seconds. This might not be a problem when you have alot of regeneration. But if you have a high regen stats, you will lack damage and probably spam one or two AoE damage spells, leaving you a few open slots for buffs spells anyway.

- Having 2 roles in an AvA battle can be game changing. I would rather have bow based character, who can swap to healer if I see that my front line is getting mowed down. (Also a good way to use both stamina and magicka resources).

 

Taking all this into account, I do not think that it will be overpowered in PVP. It might be good in certain builds though.

 

offtopic: This is my first post and I wanted to say that I really loved reading all the theory crafting in every topic(especially the posts of Musclemagic and Irons).

 

 

Heya! Welcome, and thanks for the great post!

 

EDITED(for clarity): The only thing that having buffs/debuffs stay would give are advantages for specific builds. It might not be a huge advantage, but it's an unfair advantage that they can't balance around without messing a lot up for casual players who aren't thinking about that (Because if you were to weaken the numbers of some thing, just because they're too good in conjuction with specific things like maybe Haste + Momentum, while someone using DW doesn't have Momentum...I mean, it's okay if it takes up a place on your bar, but if Haste is just an extra spot on another bar--and even if you can only use it for ~15 seconds because the first 2 seconds get eaten and you don't have time to re-apply it in combat, it's still a big advantage). I guess that's the whole point though, to add diversity and such, making people think more about synergy...but it seems unfair for builds that don't have the ability to do so, simply because their class or weapon choice isn't good for it. It'll turn people cookie-cutter in no time for their class, because there'll always arise a perfect synergy system that gives the maximum buffs for that class. For example, Templar passives for healing are pretty beastly as they are...so it might end up being balanced anyway if someone does takes healing as their 2ndary, or even off-healing..but do you see how they're kind of forced into that role? XD But, who cares about noobs anyway?!! No matter what it ends up being like, we're going to come up with some kick ass builds either way! ^.^

 

PS- Playing on PS4?!

 

 

Something I never noticed before: I think 750 resistance or armor rating is equal to 26% additional damage mitigation through either armor or resistances. I'm sure there's a soft cap on it somewhere though, guessing @ ~1200 would be the first soft-cap. Anyway, that 750=26% number will help us make some builds later on. (#'s are for cLvl 50.)

If this is a lady, then it's probably a lesbian (just look at 'er!), which would still bolster my first opinion! Haha!

Fewer, but bigger, spikes. Bet the ladies like this version better! ^.^

Why do you think that is soo bad muscle...

 

Because it will turn people's second bar into a buff bar rather than a bar for different situations, meaning people will only be really good at one specific thing. This isn't necessarily bad in itself, but it means that specific things in the game will be better than other specific things due to the amount of activated duration-type abilities.

 

You'll see what I mean if I list the skills that each class can benefit from if this is true, rather than having to spread things out over one bar at a time for a specific purpose just for that bar alone (I'll only include things with a duration over 10s, because anything under 8s duration probably isn't worth the bar swap) ---

DK-

Spiked Armor

Dragon Blood

Molten Weapons

Obsidian Shield

Petrify

Ash Field

 

Sorc-

Rune Prison

Daedric Mines

Familiar

Twilight

Ward

Surge

 

NB-

Blur

Haste

Mark Target

Path of Darkness

Summon Shade

Agony

Drain Power

Strife

Cripple (8.5s, close)

 

Now...for the templar... You'll see why using one bar for buffs isn't very fair:

Cleansing Ritual

Rune Focus

Spear Shards

 

Now, I get that having a healer class is good. But, those 3 abilities don't really synergize very well on a secondary bar..so you're either using Cleansing Ritual and Rune Focus as a healer, or you're using Spear Shards as a DPS. You can't just throw some passives on a second bar that will boost your first bar, the bars will be very individualized if you go templar and heal...which is fine if you want to be a healer, but not if you don't want to heal as Temp.

 

Which, brings me to weapon choices:

 

Resto Staff-

Regeneration

Force Siphon

Steadfast Ward

 

2H-

Momentum

Cleave

 

Shield-

Puncture

Power Bash

 

Destro Staff-

Weakness to Elements

 

DW/Bow-

None

 

Unless you're using DW as main weapon, it's not that good. Bow passives are decent, but you need to keep it on your main bar for those passives, and they don't synergize too well with anything specifically. Bow's going to only be usable as a weird main weapon combo'd with something else... Yeah, it's ranged...woohoo. idk, I feel like the bow's lackluster right now. The run speed's cool, and the damage passives are decent, but it's hard for me to imagine it being that great at the moment.

 

Medium Armor-

Evasion

 

Light Armor-

Annulment (Time is a variable)

 

Heavy Armor-

Immovable (8s, but w/e)

 

I think the armor's pretty good, I just think that Annulment shouldn't cost as much magicka as it does. I think it should be "toggled" to take 50% magic damage as magicka..in which case it wouldn't work on a buff-bar anyway. But, it's not like that, so it doesn't matter. XD I don't like Light Armor's active to begin with--although I'm sure in some dungeons it'll be easier for a light-armor to tank a boss with high magic damage at some point..interesting option anyway, idk.

 

My point is, that a pure-healer templar (which seems to be the most valid templar build atm) will probably want to wear light armor...but light armor sucks so bad against melee.. bleh.

 

 

It's hard to say still, because it's just in my head, but my opinions is that if people are able to keep buffs/debuffs when they swap bars then templars are screwed with the way things are right now if they don't go healer..and even then, it'll be rough.

 

 

 

TLDR: It limits people's choices a lot if they want to be any good. It's fun to make each of your bars good by themselves, but your second bar comes down to what Duration Spells you have access to, or else your main bar won't be as good as other people's main bars...and your 2 bars in conjunction will NOT catch up to the good people's main bars that synergize with their buff bars. It's just not possible for someone who's reaping the benefits of both bars to lose to someone who only has one bar they can utilize at a time due to not having Duration spells that benefit their bar in use.

Based on the Quakecon vid, you can see that he Volley's, changes to DW right away, and it keeps going. However, it might cancel on things with effects that last over 10 seconds or something.. Otherwise I see no reason for not ever taking something like Molten Weapons on your secondary bar.

 

Also, the "cloaked" person we were talking about before who was staying cloaked for a long time was actually just a summoned Shade.

 

EDIT: Another person had his bow out at that time, so it might not have been Nick's Volley.

 

I REALLY hope this isn't the case. Can you provide any evidence? If it is true, then PvP will be a nightmare for people who try to use both their bars independently.

if buffs and debuffs dont vanish when you switch weapon, then you can have a "buff"/"debuff"/"support" weapon setup to trigger stuff like bound armor, fiery armor etc and then switch back to your DPS set-up while keeping all the defensive buffs active.

 

as i said; it might or might not work that way. there are good arguments both ways.

 

Yeah, if buffs and such do stay on when you swap bars then Templars have a major disadvantage IMO. I really hope that the buffs DON'T stay on when we switch bars.

I think my biggest caveat with the idea of effects disappearing on weapon swaps is that it's unrealistic... It's like, if you put a curse on someone in real life somehow then you change your clothes, the curse wouldn't go away unless it was a channeled curse. It just makes no sense to disappear. ZOS is all about emersion so they wouldn't do something like that.

If I were to activate a large dot,like Nova and swap skill bars would it continue to damage the foe?

 

Irons and I both believe so. Any skill you use that lasts for a certain amount of time should stay on the target (friend or foe) whether you swap bars or not. It doesn't make any sense that it would disappear, it's not like if you do damage with an ability and then you swap your bars that the damage would go away--so a used effect shouldn't disappear either. But, this might be different for Ultimates for some reason... I mean, we don't even know if you can have two Ults at all! If there's only one Ult per the 2 bars, then it wouldn't disappear with a bar-swap.

 

But, for example, if you have Bound Armor or Siphoning Strikes "activated" then you switch bars, it would become inactive because it requires the skill to be on your bar.

6 comments up-Dynamic

 

I think that 6% was actually the old number, they were just playing at Quakecon with outdated numbers... but not sure.

...

what do you mean muscle, of course you can sneak attack same level mobs. you just have to... you know... sneak up on them first (you can also sneak attack them with a bow from long range). Nobody will spot you as long as nobody is looking in your general direction....

 

You won't be able to sneak attack same level mobs with melee weapons if you walk up in front of them. If you're behind someone, it changes what I said...like I said.

 

EDIT: Whoops! I guess I didn't mention that part, so thanks for adding that.

A question if anyone can answer please?

 

One of the medium armor passive is:

 

Improved Sneak

[*]-5% sneak detection area per piece of equipped Medium Armor.

What does that do exactly?  Example:  If I have sneak skill maxed and I am wearing (7 piece) medium set can I walk up to a mob and back-stab without being detected if they don't use "mage light"?

 

It just works based on cLvl rather than having a sneak level of it's own. If you're sneaking up against something a few levels above you it probably increases the radius where they can detect you. For example, a level 15 monster when you're level 12 might detect you while you're still 20 yards away.

 

In PvP where we're all considered level 50 everyone will probably have like a 10m detection radius. Each piece of medium armor will reduce it by 5%, max of 35%, so you can get within 6.5m radius rather than 10m before you're even detectable.

 

If they're using Magelight then it's up to 12m radius and includes when you're invisible.

 

I don't think you'll be able to melee attack anything while sneaking without them being a much lower level than you..unless they're incapacitated or already in combat. In PvP I think it'll be easier to get a sneak attack melee move off.

 

This is all guesswork though.

Like I said before I did the math and I'm pretty sure that a DK in medium armor will be able to tank all master dungeons because you don't get much more tanky if you go with full heavy armor.

 

 

I think it's the opposit. That the hp reg(%) only influences the base HP reg and that the hp reg(fix amount) doesn't get effected by it.

But it could also be that all get's boosted.

 

I don't think you'll be able to tank in full medium, because the set bonuses won't be focused on tanking like heavy armor set bonuses will be. I think that it's within these set bonuses that the gap between DK and other tanks will get smaller. Because I believe the armor bonuses will be a big factor, and that heavy armor bonuses will be for tanking. If this is accurate, then you won't be able to get away with medium armor even if the armor value isn't much less.

 

And yeah, it's just speculation. I wish we could just straight up ask a dev how regen's calculated. lol

You can swing a 2h with two arms just as fast as a 1h with one arm, this has always bothered me in video games where 2h's are slower for no reason.

 

But, I agree that while dual wielding you should be able to fire off attacks at twice the speed because you're attacking with both hands.

 

I haven't really been looking at this yet... Can anyone time a few attacks and post the times so we can use it to calculate things like Siphoning Strikes, Force Siphon, or Lifesteal weapons?

Sorry for the DP, but I forgot to include this thought:

 

I actually think that the 3% base regen won't be modified through extra % regen, but that all the +flat regen will be modified by further +% regen. You feel me?

 

3%+(X*Y%) where X is the flat regen you have and Y is 1+the percent of extra regen you get.

 

For example, if you have 100 stamina you'll automatically have 3/second. If you also have +10 regen from something, then you'll have 13/second. But, if you have something that gives +50% stamina regen then you'd have 3+(10*1.5) for 18.

Is chat broken or is it actually full? :S It currently says 0 people are in chat room, but I get this message while opening it, "The IP.Chat room limit has been reached. You will not be able to join the chat room until some users first leave."

 

DAAAVIIIIDDDDD???????

Good morning, thanks for giving me something to read when I woke up.

 

If you guys think about other games then you'll realize that you really do need to not only have a specific class tank in specific fights, but even within that class they often need to re-spec for each dungeon in order to overcome specific dungeon mechanics. For the endgame content I do think you'll want full heavy for full mitigation, not necessarily because of the Armor stat, but because the set bonuses for heavy will be geared for tanking rather than damage and such on medium.

 

You can calculate it out right now, but it'll change when we know what the hard numbers on enchantments are. I do agree that medium armor would allow you to keep evasion/immovable up a bit more and that might give you more mitigation in the long run, but with regen enchantments it might not even be necessary.

 

I do think you'll want at least 1 piece of Medium for Evasion though, in which case I'd take 2 that give a nice 2-piece set bonus. I am almost certain that if I'm tanking I'll be using 5h+2m because Evasion is really strong, and taking 1 piece of something when I could get a bonus for taking another where a bonus most likely won't fit in with 6 heavy is probably going to be better than just 6h/1m.

 

DK is the logical choice for damage mitigation. But, for overcoming mechanics (which has always been the most important factor in tanking) then DK doesn't necessarily have better options than say a Sorc who can bolt escape (Puncture then Bolt Escape, repeat until the DPS kill the target. This could be a common necessity.) and then maybe winged twilight will be a nice addition to tanking through a morph. (Seems likely, since Twilight was initially supposed to be tanky.) 

 

In another situation it might be better for a NB to stand away from the group while tanking, Puncture and then Cloak. The target would then run toward the rest of the group for 2.5s and then the NB would reappear and the target would run back to the NB for 2.5s (since it's a 5s taunt), meaning that it wouldn't be able to do damage in melee range anyway for pretty much 5 seconds. Like we kind of said before, I don't think that most interrupts, slows, and incapacitates will work on the bigger boss-fights..so that's something to take into account when weighing mitigation.

 

But, we have no idea what mechanics the dungeons will bring us.. this is why I only really care about PVP theorycraft at this point, because that's the only thing we have an idea of what the enemy will be like.

 

In PVP I think that you're right on, irons, that you'll have plenty of mitigation and you'd do better overall by getting more damage and utility as a DK tank in PVP.