Musclemagic

I could take apart your post but it might could get personal and it also would get me a little bit upset.

 

So I won't.

 

I'm sorry that i critisized your build in the future I won't to it again.

But could you pls to me a favour and think your builds through before you post them.

Thx

It might be a clash of goals we want to achieve with that DK build compared to your DK build, but I'd love for you to pick apart my post explaining why my build works...it's this constructive criticism that will get us better, I want everyone to critique the builds as much as possible, this is the only way that we'll get better/clearer build strategies. So, if you could explain where you're coming from, like I did, then it would help me (and everyone else) out?

I'm not trying to make it personal mate, the only criticism I put towards your build was supposed to be constructive, sorry if it offended you. I think that my build is a much better PVE build than yours, and I explained my reasoning.

I really did put a lot of thought into that setup (as you can see by my long explanation of it.) You're being the antagonist by jumping to conclusions that I didn't think about it, and making big claims that it's the worst DK build you've ever seen... So, if you could explain your reasoning behind your conclusions, we'd all benefit from it.

It could really be the worst DK build of all time for your goals, but until you tell me why... I do think it's the best possible dungeon tank with the abilities we have knowledge of.

I won't talk about the other builds because I'm kind of focused on the DK.

 

 

But your DK build is one of the worst I have seen so far.

 

For example you put spiked armor, obsidian shield and immoveable on one bar. Having 3 of those skills is a complete waste something you said yourself. Flurry is a bad skill for a Tank because it's a channel which means that you can't react while using it.

You use your second hotbar only for your buffs which also means that you have to switch often between the 2 which is a dmg loss and you also loose out ont the sword/shield passives .

Next thing you have no AoE.

Than why did you go with Breton instead of Orc or Redguard, which both are better tank races in that 1 alliance.

 

 

It might sound harsh but many on here see your builds and think "yeah he makes great builds I wanna use that build" which is fine but not when you come up with a build like this.

Yeah, I need to make write ups for each of those builds, because this is ludicrous.

I believe this is like the best PVE tank possible. I'll explain:

I took Breton for the Magic Resistances to couple with the DK passive Magic Resistances so the armor doesn't need to enchant into MR that much. Also, it doesn't need to be enchanted for MP as much due to the slightly lower cost of spells and higher base MP. Orc/Redguard better tanks? You'll have to explain why, because I don't see it... Do you mean for the stamina or for the 5% health on orcs? :S You get more than 5% health on Breton through need-based stat distribution--you are able to allocate a lot more health stats as breton. The stamina regen is nice on Orc/Redguard but it doesn't seem that powerful really.

Puncture spamming makes it easy to keep all targets focused on you at all times, just from running around and hitting each of them. There's no need for a gap closer as a tank in most PVE situations except for the initial pull, in which case you can use Fiery Reach in the DW bar then swap to S&S. You'll want to use the DW bar initially before each fight to get Molten Weapon's up anyway.

The rest of the DW bar is for single-target DPS, when fights required you kill a certain enemy quick rather than just tank it.

The S&S bar, other than puncture, isn't necessarily all about the mitigation-- Spiked Armor up keeps you getting 12% incrs to heals, Obsidian Shield (as well as Molten Weapons) should give you ~15+% stamina (more punctures) on each activation as well as the damage absorb group-wide that could really help, it's also powerful because with all the mitigation this build has, each point of healing on the bubble is multiplied by your mitigation, meaning if your healer's in trouble you really want this spell around to keep yourself alive.  Immovable is taken more for the anti-CC than for the dmg-reduction, as the tank your positioning is extremely important, this is especially true because you don't want to bar-swap for the gap closer. Ash Field is amazing, it's better than Dark Talons because you can use it to help allies disappear completely, making the mobs focus entirely on you again (so, if--your example of the healer needing peels--not only will the 70% slow be plenty to allow the healer to get away, but if it's dire he can simply disappear with Ash Field.

irons, you definitely jumped the gun without looking at the build. "Worst build ever" is also just a slap for no cause:

Firstly, those 3+Ash Shield aren't for the mitigation exactly, *except when weighing Spiked Shield vs Dragon Blood*, the mitigation's just a bonus. If there was another form of mitigation, I'd take it, but Low Slash doesn't work very well and Reflective Scale instead of Spiked Shield would be too hard to keep up for the +12% healing received. There's not a better combo for synergizing the passives with.

Flurry wouldn't be used while tanking, and the only times you'd be using the DW bar is in specific situations and pre-battle for Molten Weapons/Pull. It's rare (only during the fast single-target kills) to use the DW bar during combat, so saying that the S&S bar's just for buffs is the exact opposite of what it's for.

Yeah, it's a pure-tanking build without DPS during combat.. Leave it to the DPS, having a tank that can manage everything with extreme ease is the #1 key to having a smooth dungeon.

Ash field works in a PvE scenario where you stand in front of a boss and keep him at you with puncture.

I don't agree with you on the point that ash filed is kind of useless without a gap closer but I agree with that Ash field is best used in combination with other abilities.

For example when your healer has 2 mobs on him he could run to you and you could use Dark Talon followed up with ash field to save him.

My PvE Boss DK build will look something like this:

2h:

Cleave

Critical Charge

Inferno

Momentum

Immoveable

Magma Armor

S&S:

Puncture

Low slash

ash field

dark talon

spiked armor

magma armor

The 2h is your AoE set up with cleave and inferno (which deals dmg, inflicts burning (200%) and slows)

S&S: you have low slash which reduces the damage of the boss which means everyone takes less dmg and slows, ash field which again saves the group from a lot of dmg and can even save them for 4s of all dmg if someone uses the synergy effect. Dark Talon is a AoE dmg + AoE immobilize and puncture makes sure that the boss hits you.

If you're in a situation where there's AOE damage, you most likely don't want to be out of your S&S bar...that'd be a sure-death, meaning your first bar's pointless, especially as the tank... where single-target quickness will be required to overcome certain mechanics.

Ash Field + Dark Talons is a waste to take both of, Ash Field's so much better. Double Magma Armor is a waste. Ash Field + Dark Talons might be a waste completely for a "boss tank", even independently of each other in boss fights-- on boss fights I get the feeling they won't be CC-able and their attacks won't be able to miss or be passively dodged...but that's just an assumption from other games.

I'll work on getting a write-up for each build completed. It's a lot of writing (As you can see from this post) but it's also required when it comes to invisioning some of the builds working (as you can also see from this post, haha)

Has anyone thought about the PvP passiv Reach?If it also works on radius abilities, then there would be some nice combinations.

Encase, Warhorn, Rapid Maneuver, Regeneration + maybe some 12m AoE skills with + radius morphs like Repulse

If u increase the radius from 20->25m, u get 56% more area covert.15->20m 78%

And more area=more targets effected=hopefully more ultimate

Yeah, definitely worth getting all the PVP passives. They're amazingcakes.

@David - Sorry for the DP.

Ya if light/heavy attack pack that much of a punch i'd think tanky/utility ranged destro/resto/bow builds  with low mp would be op.  The quakecon vid made it look like ranged attack just tickled enemies.  

 

@muclemagic I know this is a little off topic from your OP but can you give anymore details/opinions on the strength of basic attacks vs active abilities and what builds you would see using basic attacks more often then not? is there any build you can think of that uses no basic attacks and is that good?

I agree with irons, your assessment's correct--it's just going to tickle them. Although, they were in a dungeon where the monsters had a lot higher health than normal. I'd say (based on what I've seen *cough*) that light+heavy attacks are a bit more powerful than you realize, but don't come close to active abilities. I just meant that there are better options for damage-spammers since Mage's Fury can only do the bigger hit once per fight unless the targets are healing up above 20% and getting knocked back down very often.

Definitely a few builds could be 100% light/heavy attacks with utility spells only in the bar! I actually believe that this is what ZOS's going for, where all the actives are mostly for utility rather than the damage itself on the abilities. And, I don't just mean healers/supports/tanks doing this. If you look at almost every ability it's not just damage except for a select few. The thing is that a lot of the utility spells (ones that aren't about the damage) also do have damage on them so finding the balance between awesome utility and awesome damage is key.

One example would be a Khajiit NB with a 2H, or maybe even better an Altmer Sorce with a Destro Staff. Weakness to Elements, Mark Target, Haste, Surge, Momentum, + the racial extra damage, and a few other spells that come in to directly support your melee damage. A resto staff build could do it really well on a nightblade with Haste and such to get your power attacks to heal you and throw a Lifesteal enchant on that staff..kaboom! It really depends on playstyle, you can either use the MP/ST to cast a direct damage spell or you can use it to buff your weapon attacks/debuff the enemy. The rest of your abilities will be like normal, mitigation and either separation or closure depending on need and etc..

Gosh, this game's such a masterpiece already...so many options.

cant wait to see your builds muscle magic

Thanks mate!! I hope you're not disappointed, I know it's hard to view another person's build and see exactly where they're coming from right away, but maybe one of them will stick out to someone!

Most of you already know what each ability does, so I don't need to put it in parenthesis, but I want you to really think about the implications of each ability synergizing with the rest of the builds abilities. These are all builds that I think will be close to the best (with minor tweaking) for what they're designed to do.

My favorite (the best, in my opinion) build is the one in the original post of this thread-- I'll continue to edit that 1^st post as I change it around.

I hope these builds spark some interesting ideas for you guys:

Khajiit – NB – DW+S&S – Heavy - PVP

DW-  Strategy = Stealth up to target and keep incapacitated as much as possible for the extra damage. Goal = Single target quick kills, will kill targets in light armor extremely fast.

• [*]

Shadow Cloak – M (Allows you to get to target for veiled strike)

Veiled Strike – M (4s disable = extra dmg on 3 flurries in a row)

• [*]

Flurry – S (spammed single-target dmg)

Teleport Strike – M (gap-close + 2s disable for extra dmg on 1 flurry)

Assassin's Blade – M (Finisher, when they're low)

Eye of Fear – U (Ranged Fear[They cower on the spot] and 5% incrs damage taken from ALL sources! Amazing for killing single-targets.)

S&S- Strategy = Keep Blur/Immovable up for mitigation, keep Strife up for heals, Summon Shade up for mitigation and heals, and Defensive Posture for reflecting spells and blocking better. Goal = When things get hairy, switch to this bar and survive a really long time.

• [*]

Blur – M (Incrs dodge chance)

Immovable – S (dmg mitigation + unable to be incapacitated)

Defensive Posture – S (active-reflects 1 spell, passive-incrs's block effectiveness and reduces cost)

Strife – M (Direct dmg + HOT, damage is spammable while HOT won't stack)

Summon Shade – M (Weakens target by 15% while under attack, helps tank in PVE, does some damage)

Soul Strike – U (Hard-hitting DOT and powerful snare[80%])

(---------------------------------------)

Breton – DK – DW+S&S – Heavy - PVE

DW- Strategy = Only used for DPS when it's called for, pre-buff with Molten Weapons, and pull the first kill-target of a mob with Fiery-Reach. Goal = capable of doing decent single-target damage, giving some group support, and able to pull a mob when necessary.

• [*]

Molten Weapons – M (buff, affects whole friendly party)

Fiery Reach – M (pull enemy towards you[and towards whole group]

Searing Strike – M (Keep the DOT up)

Twin Slashes – S (Keep the DOT up)

Flurry – S (Spammable)

Dragon Leap – U (Huge direct nuke, also it's fucking awesome..lol)

S&S- Strategy = Taunts targets to keep them on you, slows them a lot to keep them from running, while having the best possible mitigation on top of good synergy with passives. Goal = TANK!

• [*]

Ash Field – M (Yeah..you guys know all these, so kind of pointless to write out.)

Immovable – S

Puncture – S (Reduces target's armor, works well in conjunction with DW 2^nd bar.)

Spiked Armor – M

Obsidian Shield – M

Magma Armor – U

(---------------------------------------)

Argonian – Nightblade – Bow and Resto – Heavy - PVE and PVP!

Bow- Strategy = Apply DOTs and HOT, keep Shade summoned, use Scatter Shot when a single target is too close to you. Use Volley in AOE situations where you're not under pressure. Goal = Nice DPS with ranged while on a NB.

• [*]

Cripple – M (Slow + DOT)

Strife – M (Dmg + HOT)

Summon Shade – M (DOT + Tank in PVE + Weaken)

Scatter Shot – S (KB + Disorient)

Volley – S (AOE Dmg-Spam)

Soul Strike – U (Single target big damage over 3s with an 80% slow. Does more against Chilled target, so put ice enchant on the bow.)

Resto- Strategy = Swap to this bar to buff your group, or when you yourself are in a crappy situation and need to try to get out through tanking. Goal = Group support and self-survival.

• [*]

Blessing of Protection – M (Heal + Armor & Resistance Buff)

Blur – M (Dodge buff)

Immovable – S (Flat reduction buff + Anti-disabling)

Purge – M (Remove 2 negative effects)

Grand Healing – M (Quick Heal)

Warhorn – U (+25% max MP&ST for 30s)

(----------------------------------------)

*UPDATED 10-26-'13* Dunmer – DK – Heavy – DW + Resto - PVP + PVE

DW- Strategy = Attack order: Fiery Reach > Entropy > Searing Strike > Twin Strikes > Flurry Spam until dead. Goal = Single Target Killin!! 

• [*]

Fiery Reach – M (Bring them in)

Entropy - N/A (DOT + Magicka + 15% next magic dmg ability)

Searing Strike – M (single-target DOT)

Twin Strikes - S (single-target Dmg + DOT)

Flurry – S (single-target spam)

Soul Strike - U (Single-target heavy DOT)

Resto- Strategy = Keep the group buffed  Goal = Group battle support!

• [*]

Obsidian Shield - M (Absorbs %dmg taken by all friendlies in area)

Molten Weapons - M  (Buffs friendlies in the area's Power)

Blessing of Protection - M  (+Armor and +Resistances for friendly's in area)

Regeneration - M (Small heal + HOT) I wish I could take Dragon Blood or Spiked Armor here to increase self-healing received by 12%(huge) but it doesn't fit.. Maybe take Spiked Shield instead of Molten Weapons and move Molten Weapons up to bar 1 instead of Flurry.

Grand Healing - M (Hopefully, between the buffs and spiked armor, this is the only heal that your party will need.)

Magma Armor – U (Perfect for group battles! *Oh Sh!t button+Big damage*)

(---------------------------------------)

Argonian – Temp – Destro+Resto – 5 Light & 2 Heavy for the +10% crit chance on spells. - Group PVP

Destro- Strategy = Between Sun Fire and Piercing Javelin, you are a single-target kiting god. Solar Flare is an amazing AOE DMG spell. Since everything you do is from a distance, Siege Shield helps you (and your party) take a lot less potential damage from siege-weapons as well as from all ranged attacks. Eclipse is to counter single-target casters if you get in a caster-battle. Goal = AOE damage and single-target utility, with some group-support as well.

• [*]

Solar Flare – M

Sun Fire – M

Piercing Javelin – M

Siege Shield – M

Eclipse – M

Warhorn – U

Resto- Strategy = When you get surrounded and can't keep them all at bay, swap to this bar and spam Sun-Shield until out of danger. If your group members are dying on the front lines then this bar's also meant for being able to heal your entire party pretty well, and also dispel. Goal = More survival and group heals. This is actually this build's main bar, the first bar is mostly utility. This is the typical "healer" character.

• [*]

Sun Shield – M

Cleansing Ritual – M

Rune Focus – M

Healing Ritual – M

Regeneration – M

Nova – U

It's hard for me to see this last build working with the MP and such, but I know there's a lot of potential for greatness hidden in it with minor tweaking.

Morphs don't look like they change that much TBH. The ones that I've seen have all been either "refund either a resource or some health" "effects more targets" "does a bit more of what it already does at the cost of taking away a part of what it already does"

So, we can probably change our morphs around to help get our MP/ST ratios perfected, which is nice, but idk how much of an impact on actual playstyle it'll have.

Is this is the accurate tooltip? Defensive Posture: Activated: Reflects the next spell projectile back to the attacker. While slotted, increases the effectiveness of block, and reduces the Stamina cost of blocking.

TF sucks, but I just thought I'd ask since this was released more recently than the tooltips on here (and it doesn't make sense to me to have a slotted ability with no active).

 http://tamrielfoundry.com/2013/09/pax-skill-overview/

ps- I am working on getting my build put up on the first post... I'll let you know when I do, I'm fixing up 6 different builds that I think all have amazing potential. So far I'm happy with all the numbers and such for enchants/everything on only 2 of them. XD

Is it just the updated Soul gem/steal Actives and Passives? Or have I missed some more subtle changes? 

I see a couple fixes to the racial passives - notably the Breton ones.

Yeah, the only thing I really noted was the Soul stuff.

I love how this list shows us just how many options there are though.. 293 different options. This means there are roughly 296 BILLION builds possible (If you consider all the passives/actives as one lump, which includes mix/matching all the passives --which doesn't really apply-- still cool though! )

That's something many are wondering.

My personal guess would be 5+ pieces, but who knows.

My guess would be 5+ as well.

Do you happen to know if there is a minimum number of heavy armor pieces you have to be wearing to use immovable? It seems like such a strong ability that having my sorc wear a piece or two of heavy armor just to use that might be worth it.  It would be my only stamina ability so i might be able to keep it up most of the time

I was thinking if I was playing a sorce I'd still use 5 Heavy and just 2 Light.

"Elitist Builds" really???

 

-------------------------------

This build might be weak to CC but maybe spell resistance counters some of that effect?

No spell resistance won't help you against CC but you can use your stamina to break stuns

-------------------------------

 

I'm not to sure about the stats.

My main focus is to have enough resources so I don't ran out of stamina/magicka in the middle of fights.

 

Class: Dragonknight

Race: Redguard

Armor: Heavy

Weapons:

Main: 2Handed Sword

Off: Sword & Shield

Stats:

HP: 20

ST: 20

MA: 9

Entchaments:

Armor:

  Power on pieces were possible (currently known 2)

  HP reg on the rest (8)

Weapons:

  2Handed: Lifesteel or Power

  Sword: Lifesteal or Power

  Shield: Shield (dmg Shield)

 

 

HotBar 1: (2Handed)

 

Reverse Slash

Critical Charge

Inferno

Momentum

Immvoveable

 

Ultimate: Magma Armor

 

 

HotBar 2: (Sword/Shield)

 

Low Slash

Shield Charge

Ash Cloud

Defensive Posture

Obsidian Shield

 

Ultimate: Battler Standard

 

 

The idea of this build is that with the high HP reg plus the dmg reduction through heavy armor, Obsidian Shield and immoveable that you will be tanky as hell while hitting really hard. Both Hotbars have there gab closer and their stamina based spam dps skill. Inferno on Hotbar1 is used to snare people and take good use of your magicka.

Why are you going with 2H instead of DW for your damage? DW seems a lot better for quick kills, stronger in both single-target and the AOE is spammable. I would go DW for killing easy things, but also for Hidden Blade to start kiting a single mob. I'm sure there'll be some fights where you need to kite the target as a group while killing it, so you'll want at least one ranged slow that you can spam-the interrupt's nice too.

On your S&S bar-- definitely use something from Draconic Power. Burning Heart (+12% healing received) is way too good to pass up. I'd suggest swapping Obsidian Shield for Spiked Armor, I don't think Obsidian Shield will stay on long enough to be that great except for the group-support, but if you're a good tank then you shouldn't need to support the group that much anyway--leave that to the healers.

For PVE are you going to swap Low Slash with Puncture for the Taunt, and just keep Ash Field up for the dodge? I think you'll still be alright even if you don't have quite as much mitigation -- It'll allow the healer to focus more on you anyway, so it'll make dungeons go way smoother even if you are taking a tad more damage.

Agree the title is a bit elitist

 

@irons I might add dragon blood on your second bar as a self heal and major added HP rejen.  Also acts as a mana sink when ash cloud isn't relevant.  Dark talons might also be really good for your first bar and might be better than inferno which adds damage but isn't really synergistic with anything.

 

I like immovable a lot I think with that and crit charge it would be hard to stop you from coming at them.

 

You may want to add spell resist to armor in addition to hp regen especially for your second bar

Elitists FTW!

 

I've been putting off making an actual build since there are so many combinations from the info available.  Here is what I came up with for a sorc with a ton of defensive abilities that will have enough mana cost reduction/regeneration to spam mages fury and lightning splash.  I put some thoughts at the end as well

 

Breton Sorc w/ 7 light armor pieces

HP:20 points

ST:0

MP:30 points

 

Ultimate:

Meteor - unlocks rank 8

instant - 28m range - 150 ultimate - no cooldown

deals 14 fire damage

deals 50% to enemies within 5m

knocks enemies back 800cm

 

Bar 1

Destro Staff

Actives:

 

Mages Fury – unlocks rank 1

instant – 28m range – 36 magicka – no cooldown

deals 6 shock damage

enemies below 20% health take 18 shock damage

 

Lightning Splash – unlocks rank 24

instant – 28m range / 4m radius – 52 magicka

leaves a pool of lightning for 5s that deals 5 shock damage every 1s

an ally in the area may activate conduit, instantly shocking enemies for 15 shock damage

 

Repulse – unlocks rank 4

instant – 5m radius – 52 magicka – no cooldown

nearby enemies are knocked back 6m and snared 45% for 4s

 

Lightning Form – unlocks rank 50

instant – self – 56 magicka – no cooldown

For 6s

take 40% less damage

deal 2 shock damage to nearby enemies every 1s

 

Encase – unlocks rank 1

instant – 15m radius – 80 magicka – no cooldown

immobilize enemies in front of you for 4.5 seconds

 

Bar 2

Resto Staff

Actives:

 

Regeneration – unlocks rank 1

instance – 15m radius – 40 magicka – no cooldown

- heal nearby ally for 5

- heal for an additional 20 over 20s

 

Surge – unlocks rank 34

instant – self – 80 magicka – no cooldown

For 17s

increase power by 3

 

Steadfast Ward - unlocks rank 10

instant - self - 80 magicka - no cooldown

absorbs up to 120 damage from the next incoming attack

last 30s

 

Conjured Ward – unlocks rank 50

instant – 20m radius – 60 magicka – no cooldown

create a 24 point damage shield on self and summoned creatures for 20 seconds

absorbs 75% of damage taken

 

Bolt Escape – unlocks rank 4

instant – self – 64 magicka – no cooldown

stuns nearby enemies for 1.5s

teleport forward 15m

 

Passive synergies:

 

Prodigy(Light Armor) + Exploitation(Daedric Summonning) = +25% crit chance on enemies affected by daedric magic(encase and repulse)

Magicka Master(breton) + Evocation(LA) + Unholy knowledge(Daedric Summoning) = 29% Spell 

cost reduction and 39% spell cost reduction on lightning spells with expert mage on storm calling tree!

Spell Resistance(breton) + Spell Warding(LA) = +120 Spell Resistance

Daedric Protection = +20% health regen while using resto bar on defence

Capacitor(storm calling) + Recovery (LA) = +38% mana regen

Concentraion(LA) + Cycle of Life(Resto) + Potency(Mages Guild) = +13%-22% extra spell damage

Restoration Master (resto) + Potency (mages Guild) = +10% extra heal

 

The philosophy behind this build would be to maximize the amount of DPS i'm able to do by

minimizing the amount of kiting i have to do.  I use my large mana pool to stick buffs and 

HOTs on myself (bar 2 resto staff) at the beginning of combat and then switch to bar 1 (destro staff)

to unload cheap offensive spells on them and by then my ultimate will hopefully be high when my mana

is low so I can finish them off with a few meteors.  Switch back to bar 2 if i need to heal and 

protect myself.  I have a lot of mana sinks here but with the huge spell cost reduction huge mana regen i can hopefully keep my mana high enough to have spells like lightning form up all the time for

damage mitigation.  If i am having extra mana in combat I would maybe include bound armor in bar 1 or

the breton ulti(dragon skin) which is like a mana shield i think, instead of meteor.

 

This build might be weak to CC but maybe spell resistance counters some of that effect? 

 

I put destruction staff for bar 1 since it seems like a natural fit and the status effects of the heavy attacks mightcome in handy but honestly none of the skills seemed better that the Sorceror skills and the passives dont synergize at all so i don't even know if i would put any points in it... At that point just using a shield might be better since it would 1: Add to the potency of my existing light armor passives as another LA piece and 2: Increase my armor and addextra enchantment bonuses

 

First thing I noticed is that you don't have Dark Exchange. In a build that is highly MP based and also doesn't use any ST on actives, I'd take Dark Exchange for sure. Even if you cast it for one second to get 23% MP/HP and then you move/cast something else (canceling the cast) it could save your ass in so many ways it's amazing.

Mage's Fury isn't what you think it is anymore, it doesn't work like a ranged Assassin's Blade anymore--

Instant28m range36 Magicka(lvl 50 - 252 magicka)

– deals 6(123) shock dmg- explode for 18(310) shock dmg if the target falls below 20% health within 4sec- explosion deal 40% of its initial damage to enemies within 4m of the target

It's still good, but you can't spam it on single-targets anymore. It's actually better now, but it's harder to use--and actually pretty similar to Daedric Curse except you can spam this (since you can only have 1 curse up at a time). So, this probably upsets your whole build..but remember that you'll do a good amount of damage with light/heavy attacks with your destro staff--so I wouldn't worry about a direct damage active ability so much.

I actually really like your build, I can see it being really functional in a lot of situations, you're just going to have a lot of trouble on things that can disable you (so taking immovable would be an epic fix).

PS- What's your 2nd Ult. going to be?

Bumping this because it's been updated a bit.

I don't think Mark Target would overcome mitigations from active abilities, but I wonder if it overcomes armor even? If it doesn't, then using it on a heavy armor would be good. If it does overcomes armor as well as resistances, then it would be best used on a Medium Armor build that relies on dodges and stealth rather than what I call "easy mitigation".

Yeah fair enough. Some magic does count as "projectile" in form but you're right; it does seem as if magic has a distinct advantage. Makes me think that most bow users will be fairly poor dps except for a few exceptional people who make it work. "cough" Marked Target before using bow skills "cough"

 

How effective would Mark Target be if only a few of your abilities are magic damage? I feel like if you were fighting a sorc or DK then it'd just screw you more than help you.

Thinking about Mark Target... This might be the answer to fighting mages as a Heavy Armor user compared to Light Armor. Their resistances won't mean squat, and yours aren't much to begin with so your total mitigation will outweigh theirs immensely!

Thanks! So that gives magic an even bigger advantage over heavy users if they're using S&S too.

This is a really good question which I unfortunately don't have the answer to but will effect the results of fights and builds heavily.From what I can see, there are three types of mitigation: 

1. Mitigation to all damage provided by passives and actives (e.g. heavy armour passive -4% inc damage; 30% reduction to all damage from Spiked armour, etc

2. Armour rating

3. Spell resistanceWhat is really unclear to me so far is whether or not Armour rating provides any mitigation against magic damage at all or whether it exclusively protects against physical damage. Spell resistance will almost definitely solely provide mitigation for magic damage but if no mitigation is derived from armour rating toward reducing magic damage then a Heavy armour tank may have less mitigation vs. magic than a light armour mage as at least light armour provides a passive for additional spell resistance.I would hope that armour value contributes some percentage toward mitigation vs magic otherwise magic damage in PvP may be a little OP because there are not many ways (if any) to derive extra spell resistance without either a racial passive or light armour passive. then again perhaps spell resistance will be acquired through enchantments...

It could be that Armor and Mitigation are all damage while Dodge is melee only and Resistances is only Magic/Ranged? Melee(-5m abilities) can only miss while ranged can only be actively dodged?

I hope the opposite, I hope that Armor doesn't reduce magic damage taken. This would be amazing for creating a skill gap between people who specced well and people who didn't..which I like. You'd need to work a lot harder in order to be decent at all.

For those of you who are clueless about builds, here's my view on ESO builds in one simple go-go-dancing post:

*Updated 12-16-'13*

Viable roles for each class for group combat--

1st role:

DK: Draconic Power- Tank (Reduce both physical and magical damage, root groups and self-heal from groups.)

NB: Assassination- Physical (Melee or Bow) DPS

Sorc: Storm Calling- Ranged Magical DPS

Temp: Restoring Light- Heals

2nd role:

DK: Earthen Heart- Support (Control enemies and Buff party)

NB: Shadow- Self-Survival

Sorc: Dark Magic- Healer+Control

Temp: Dawn's Wrath- Support (Increase party's DPS and make the melee enemies miss a lot or the casters unable to cast.)

3rd role:

DK: Ardent Flame- Close-range magic DPS

NB: Siphoning- Caster DPS

Sorc: Summoning- Pets help spread incoming dmg, you keep yourself and your pets alive while also doing a bit of DPS.

Temp: Aedric Spear- Ranged and close quarters DPS hybrid.

DK should be in heavy armor for Draconic Power- with 1H&Shield. Light Armor for Earthen Heart- with a Restoration staff for more control and support and light armor for Ardent Flame- with a Destruction staff for more DPS.

NB should be in medium armor for Assassination-  with a melee weapon and Shadow- with a bow. NB should be in light armor with either destro or resto staff depending on if you want more survival or more damage.

Sorc should be in light armor for all builds, using either a destro or resto staff. An exception to this would be a sneaky-healer build with medium armor and resto staff who uses Dark Exchange a lot.

Templar has the most diverse options. To heal they should use Resto staff & Light armor, to tank they should use Heavy armor & 1H/Shield, to DPS they should either use medium with 2H, DW, or Bow bars (2 out of these, 1 for each bar) for physical damage, and then use light armor and a destruction staff for magical damage.

If all of this is correct, which I think it is, then I would say that the best choice of armor (and therefore the best choice of weapons) is easy for each class.

Logically, it's as follows:

<strike>DK: Light armor, Destro-Ardent Flame + Resto-Earthen Heart.</strike>

NB: Medium Armor, DW-Assassination + Bow-Assassination.

Sorc: Light Armor, Destro-Storm Calling + Resto-Dark Magic.

Templar: Light Armor, Resto-Restoring Light + Destro-Dawn's Wrath.

The only problem with this, is that there aren't any tanks. DK make the best tanks, as they have a whole bar dedicated to it. So, instead of them playing as a close-range magic DPS or a support/healer class, I strongly would encourage all DK to be tanks. Looking at the numbers, they don't make that great of DPS or strictly support/healers anyway..either due to the need to be in melee range with light armor, or due to the lack of resources compared to other classes for casting MP based spells. Not only this, but there are already 2 classes who's best options are using Destro/Resto staves in light armor, so the gear will be much more expensive than Heavy--which will be the least desired gear.

Thusly, this is more logical for several reasons:

DK: Heavy armor, 1H&Shield-Draconic Power + 2H-Earthen Heart.

Of course this all changes when we're talking about soloing.

While soloing, the build choices are easier IMO:

Half DPS, and half control if medium or heavy armor -or- half heals if light armor.

Meaning the only good options are really:

DK: Heavy Armor + 2H with Earthen Heart and 2H abilities (Not ardent flame instead of 2H for DPS because they are spell power abilities rather than weapon power, also the MP ratio would be way off if bar#1 was still S&S.) (Since it's heavy armor--since you'll hopefully want to tank as a DK, resto-staff isn't as viable..so control+dps > heals+dps because of armor synergy.)

NB: Medium Armor + Bow with Shadow and Bow abilities. (Not Siphoning instead of Shadow, because they are spell power not weapon power and would do such low damage that it's not worth it.) (Because it's medium armor, resto staff isn't a good choice--you want that melee weapon for synergies--and this means that heals+dps isn't an option.)

Sorc: Light Armor + Resto staff with Summoner and Resto abilities. (Dark Magic with a Destro staff would be a good alternative to Summoning+Resto staff, if you prefer damage + control more than damage + healing.)

Temp: Light Armor + Destro staff with both Aedric Spear and Restoring light abilities. (Because templars have class-heals, you can just use that bar instead of a resto staff to fulfill the healing part of the DPS+Healing combo. Another option would be to use Aedric Spear + Dawn's Wrath, still with a destro staff, to control+dps instead of heal+dps.)

....

As far as Ultimates go, here's a really over-simplified breakdown of the ultimates:

As far as Ults go, like irons said it really depends on situations. I won't go into too much detail but this is basically the breakdown that I see:

Nova, DK Standard, Storm Atronarch, and Soul Shred are probably the best for most AOE situations.

Magma Armor, Negate Magic, Nova or Rite of Passage for defense.

Dragon Leap, Death Stroke, Overload, and Consuming Darkness are all good for specific things, Dragon Leap is one of my favorites for breaching keeps and knocking people off keep walls.

I also really like Highborn and Hitskin because they're extremely simple.

Summon Bear/Ancestral Guardian are amazing for PVE. Battlecry/Berserker Rage/Powercharge are really good.

Eye of Fear and Dragonskin I'm undecided on, they will either be really good... or not ever worth taking IMO.

Meteor and Soul Strike seem good for Spell Power builds that want a Dragon Leap that they don't need to be in the frey with, or a nice single-target damage/snare.

I LOVE Barrier as a healer/support character (the passive you get from it is nice as well.) and War Horn is also a top-notch group support ability. I think in any well-functioning group for PVP there should be at least 1 person with War Horn and 1 person with Barrier.

Dawnbreaker's probably only good for Daedra PVE.

....

Cheers.

The strength of DK's doesn't come from there passive HP reg it's because they have the best defensive skills + the best selfheals and still are able to deal good dmg.I allready was thinking about it yesterday, we have come to a point where we should talk about stat distribution and gear.The problem is that we have very little information about it.

Yeah, it's because they'll have such high effective health points (due to mitigation) that the regen will seem like a lot in comparison.

Overall, I've gathered from people's posts on this thread that:1. There is a maximum of two stats and one enchantment on pieces of armour and perhaps even the accessory pieces.

2. stamina/health/magicka regen are available as enchantments and are a flat +10 at lvl 50

3. There is the usual 49 level points into your three main stats with a cap at no more than 30 points into one stat4. With level points and gear with a main stat, you can achieve somewhere between 1800 - 2200 of a main stat at least (possibly more with better gear when better gear is available than "superior" quality)

5. Without spending any points or having any stat toward a main stat on gear - you still have at least 1000 of a main stat 

So with this information, if you ignored health, power, crit and enchantments that are not stat-based (e.g. reduced dodge roll cost) and focused your level points and two gear stats on magicka and stamina with enchantments that were either magicka or stamina regeneration - you would then have a build that may not hit as hard or have as much health but would have both high total magicka and stamina and significant regen of both stats. With the numbers I've calculated, assuming this is all correct of course, this equates to:1. Characters that can spam low cost magicka skills without losing total stamina (especially cast time skills once you calculate regen during the casting and MOST especially when discussing Templars who have by far the greatest potential for stat regeneration)

2. Stamina regen on a high magicka character that is high enough to sustain the  use of "immovable" every 8 seconds and still have high total stamina with excess stamina regen to cover normal moves such as blocking and dodging (though this will depend on how often you intend to block/dodge and how expensive it is to do so which is not confirmed)3. You can have high magicka and stamina with high regen of both while NOT USING MEDIUM OR LIGHT armour passives. These numbers are based off purely using heavy armour and therefore no armour passive benefits to regeneration of stamina/magicka. Using the armour passives would give even higher regen (but perhaps even unnecessarily high).The sacrifice for such stat allocation and enchantment choices comes down to 2 major criteria that I can see:1. Low health. Only having 1000 health or a little higher.

2. Less damage output due to no stats/enchantments toward raw Power or Critical ratingHowever, the counter to point 1 is that while having low health - you do have heavy armour mitigation, defensive skills and if you have a self heal or a healer in group you do not have any worries about a lower health total. A good example is that a DK with Immovable and Spiked Armour constantly on plus heavy armour mitigation is not too worried about having lower health than other characters.The only counter to the second point is that:

1. Maintaining defensive skills and heals means you're in the fight for longer and therefore do more total damage over time

2. More importantly, you can use your offensive skills more often (perhaps even spam depending on the skill) and maintain this throughout a fight equating to more damage anywayRandom aside: DK's have best self heals? I am not very impressed by the cost of Dragon Blood (80m at lvl 1 and likely 560m at lvl 50) and the fact that it is not a flat 25% of your health but of your missing health which means if you had half health when you used it and were at about 500-700 health - then the heal you'd get would be 0.25 x 500-700 which would only be between 125 - 175. Unless I've misunderstood its description...And Inhale seems unreliable as it depends on huge numbers surrounding you. In a 1 vs 1 or smaller group fight - you may not get much out of the heal especially since it only has a 5m radius, I would think? They do have the best defensive skills though.P.S. I have not given any calculations/numbers in this lengthy post but happy to provide examples of build numbers as proof if anyone wishes to see. It's stuff I've done on paper and not typed up as of yet. And calculations are done without factoring any stats or enchantments one could gain from accessories or weapons. Just based off 7 pieces of armour that have 2 stats and one enchantment each.

It's too hard to tell right now, because we don't know the #'s for armor, the #'s for resistances, or how long fights will last on average (how much regen comes into play.)

Once we know those things, we'll be able to figure out how stat distribution comparing light or medium armor (about 20% less required stats in either ST or MP, is my guess) compared to heavy armor...so we'd be able to put 20% more stats into health..but how does that compare for overall Effective HP when you factor in armor...and that you'll require more magicka resistance on your heavy armor to make up for not having the light armor...

It all boils down to getting the maximum effective HP without sacrificing MP/ST, so depending on which one allows you to get that EFFECTIVE HP up the most, is what the best armor will be.. Definitely either Light or Heavy (my guess), since Medium has lower armor and zero resistance passives either...

Heavy will be obviously better for mitigation, but if you can allocate enough stats into HP from going in a different armor type then it could make up more than the difference.

Hmmm, hadn't thought of that particular combination until you mentioned it, but I really like that idea and it could work really well.

I also wanted to throw something random out here that effects everyone's build regardless of class, and that is the way regeneration values are calculated by the game in regard to stamina/magicka/health regen:

My question is: at what point in a calculation of regen do % increases get factored in? The timing of this could have significant outcomes on calculations of regen and whether or not you have enough regen to cater for particular move combinations. I think it is best illustrated by the following example:

E.g. Redguard Templar, with Restoring Aura.

Equipment: Medium Armour full set;

3 pieces of his armour have a +10 stamina regen enchantment

Total stamina: 1600

Method 1

Calculation of stamina regen:

1600 x 3/100 = 48 stamina/second base rate

If you then apply the + 28% regen for 7 pieces of medium armour and +15% for Restoring Order you then get:

48 + 48 x 0.43 = 68.64 stamina/second

Then apply other raw bonuses: redguard passive and 3 enchantments of stamina regen;

64.64 + 7 + (10 x 3) = 105.64 stamina/second

Therefore by this calculation your Total Stamina Regeneration would be 105.64 stamina/second

 

Method 2

 

Calculation of stamina regen:

 

1600 x 3/100 = 48 stamina/second base rate

Now adding gear enchantments and racial passive raw increases first:

48 + 7 + (10 x 3) = 85 stamina/second

Then applying % increases from armour passives (28%) and active abilities (15%):

 

85 + 85 x 0.43 = 121.55 stamina/second

Therefore by this calculation your Total Stamina Regeneration would be 121.55 stamina/second

 

Conclusion

 

As you can see in this example the regeneration rate difference is equivalent to: about 16 stamina/second

 

So depending on what order % increases and raw increases are applied, there can be phenomenal changes to your stamina/magicka/health regeneration rates and what you calculate your rate to be in order to work out how often you can use the Active skills you choose to slot. While 16 in this example doesn't seem like a terribly huge difference - it works out to really be quite large and can make the difference between picking one Active skill over another due to cost-effective calculations.

So the question is: do we know in which order it is calculated? What has everyone been assuming the calculation order to be? And if you get a chance to jump in beta next time - see if you can work out the order if we don't already know.

*Note: the build I gave was merely an example and I do not intend to actually use a medium armour templar.

** Additional Note: I have no idea what order the calculation is made so I have been factoring the potential for it to go either way when looking at my potential builds.

And one last question - is there any limitations like there is in Skyrim when it comes to using the same enchantment on every piece of armour. E,g. Could you have a stamina regen enchantment on every piece of your Heavy Armour?

 

Great post. I believe it will be base + % + constant (lower result.) The reason I think so is because the 2nd one, 7.6% regen per second is too much... A templar spamming solar flare for ~300 mp ever 2 seconds would be 122 + 122 + 64 (@1600 x .04).. for a total of 308 mp/2 seconds. Infinite spamming in this case?

It's too hard to say at this point, but either way I'm leaning back towards a 100% Magicka Build... Unlimited casting of higher spell cost abilities (like The Konk was saying) is amazeballs...

Perhaps Templar Destro/Resto in Light as High Elf = Sexcommander.   Nightblade + 2H + Restoring Aura from nearby Templar + Medium Armor = Unlimited ST on pretty much anything if you get kills often enough..

I really wonder how long fights will last though, definitely as a DK tank the health regen will be powerful in all but the biggest disadvantage fights..unkillable in 1v1..

BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARDS!

Yeah AoE is better in big battles but the NB excels as a Single Target Dps and that's what this build is about.Like you said I'm not to much into NB because I'm totally fixed on DK so that build surley has potential for improvement.There is no overlap with that build that build is designed so that you can choose how you wanna engage your opponent either melee or range depending on which troubles them more. So against a melee fighter or Tank you would use your bow against healers or caster you go in close.I agree that having to many NB like that in your group would suck but having a few of those to quickly pick of enemy players is nice.

I'd at least throw Volley in there though.

Posting my thoughts about a group pvp templar build here, to see how other people think about it. The exact skills i'd use in the build are not set at the moment.

I'm thinking about exploting the hell out of spear shards (ae damage + 15% damage buff for me and a teammate) and solar flare (ae damage + 40% damage for the next attack on every target hit). Then combine those buffs with strong ae attacks, used by you or the one that picked up your spear shard. Repeated use should do insane ae damage.

Besides the obvious problem of burning a ton of mp on repeated use, and solar flare having a cast time, is there anything i'm missing that would prevent this?

The thing is that there's not any stronger (as far as first-number goes) AOE than Solar Flare already, so you might want to just spam it. Spear Shards requires input from a friend for your buff, I'd personally use Entropy in between each one for the +15% damage on the Mage Guild's passive (after casting a mage guild ability you get +15% damage to next ability). Entropy also helps with the MP burn you mentioned.

If there was a stronger AOE attack then it'd be a good idea, but it's only really worth doing that in very highly coordinated situations where you can do it before they use an Ultimate. This would apply well to single targets as well, given the right coordination. For group fights you're almost always better off just spamming Solar Flare because if it's not hitting itself then it'll be getting hit almost as soon as it's used anyway.

Okay that's how I would play a NB.

 

Bow:

Scatter Shot

Cripple,

Strife,

Haste,

Aspekt of Terror

Consuming Darkness

 

DW:

Assassine Blade

Blur

Teleport Strike

Veiled Strike

Shadow Cloak

Death Stroke

You have two builds with the same goal on each, no AOE let alone a ranged AOE..or any team support whatsoever. I wouldn't want you in my crew <Cyrodiil Squad>!

Yeah, you'd do good single target damage but it's not very functional outside of that specific goal..too much overlap between the two builds as well.

I know you're not that in to NB's though.. I think that build you posted is what most NB users are going to build like...and they're gonna get $h!t on all day! ^.^

The solution is easy become a Tank.

That leaves a lot unanswered for!

Nightblade – Bow and Resto – Heavy – Argonian

Bow-

Cripple – M (Slow + DOT)

Strife – M (Dmg + HOT)

Summon Shade – M (DOT + Tank in PVE + Weaken)

Scatter Shot – S (KB + Disorient)

Volley – S (AOE Dmg-Spam)

Soul Strike – U (Single target big damage over 3s with an 80% slow. Does more against Chilled target, so put ice enchant on the bow.)

Resto-

Blessing of Protection – M (Heal + Armor & Resistance Buff)

Blur – M (Dodge buff)

Immovable – S (Flat reduction buff + Anti-disabling)

Purge – M (Remove 2 negative effects)

Grand Healing – M (Quick Heal)

Warhorn – U (+25% max MP&ST for 30s)

Instead of Scatter Shot I might put in a direct damage, because I think it'd be harder to beat a pure caster than melee with this build.

Thanks, I haven't really put dodge-roll and anti-NB into that perspective! I'm glad we're all seem to agree that Immovable's awesome, as well.

So... we just need a build that can kill OR overcome: a caster dps, melee dps, a healer, and be able to at least escape a tank...plus it needs to have the ability to spam an AOE from a distance without being MP or ST starved. We need enough ST to dodge roll a lot and enough MP to be able to pad for emergencies, but we don't want Light or Medium armor because Heavy will be huge difference against melee and we also like immovable..

.... 

I've got classes until 5:15 tonight... but I'll see you guys then!

Using Shadow cloak would grant you a sneak attack.

Yeah, if I could get Veiled Strike off without it then I wouldn't have taken it.

No I don't know if you can dodge AoE's.

 

As a Tank I prefer a constant dmg reduction.

You never know if you don't be unlucky and all the big hit's gain through and it's easier for the healer to heal you constantly for a small amount than suddenly for a big one.

 

 

Yeah a DK might be the more tanky one but therefore your NB has more crit than a DK could get.

6% less crit chance, but might be better-- Shadow Cloak + Veiled Strike instead of Blur/Haste. Being able to open with Veiled Strike into 2 flurries right away is nice.

I know what I mean is dogde is more RNG than dmg reduce you never know what you really get.

Yeah, more RNG. But, on average it's more effective because it causes all effects (not only the damage) to miss. Depends on playstyle choice though, for sure it's greater risk.. I guess I'm okay with that. XD

ps- Do you (or anyone) know if you can dodge an AOE in ESO?

__________________________

I like RNG... dodge crit FTW! Here's a solid single-target build with both!

Khajiit – NB – Heavy – DW + S&S

DW- Teleport Strike + Flurry spam = single target death with Assassin's Blade finisher.

15% incrs damage against stunned targets. 5% crit chance from Dagger in Offhand. Crit rating and extra crit damage from being Khajiit. 15% crit chance from 5 (x3%) Assassination abilities slotted. 20% extra damage on targets under 25%..

5% base crit chance + 20% + racial and crits doing +30% (on top of regular crit bonus) damage = huge hits all day.

[*]

Blur – M

Haste – M

Teleport Strike – M

Flurry – S

Assassin's Blade – M

Death Stroke – U

S&S- Summon Shade not only helps tank things but increases stamina regen on top of the weaken. Strife for a small HOT. Blur/Immovable for passive dmg reduction. Defensive Posture for the active and small passive block bonus.

[*]

Blur – M

Immovable – S

Defensive Posture – S

Strife – M

Summon Shade – M

Consuming Darkness – U

I know the S&S bar sucks compared to a DK or even a Temp S&S build, and there's no AOE anywhere, but I think it's a very strong single-target build for sure.

The thing is that it will easily kill anyone in light armor and then be strong enough to survive a group fight as melee..which is hard to do as most other DPS builds. I can see a DK build with DW+S&S working better for S&S but a lot slower kills in DW.

QQ - Does anyone know if Breton will be all magic resistances @ 750 res @ clvl 50?

Ha, this thread is an instant classic!!!!!!! HAAAAAAAHAHAAHA!