Musclemagic

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArII4nGY0Yf3dGlrY2IzSzlFZXhrZ3V5MDRwb2lmMEE&usp=sharing#gid=0

 

But I often wonder where you get your numbers from:

 

Where did you get those numbers?

 

Thanks, this is a lot better than what I was using.

 

I was just about to respond to you in the other thread, I read on a wiki that 750 resistances = 26% mitigation but I can't find it or it got updated. It's a leap of faith, but I applied it to armor rating as well. It might not be spot on but the numbers make a fair amount of sense.

 

It might have been too big a leap of faith. Hopefully it holds true though, it seems to be a good balance.

 

God dammit, they removed Weighted Shot and replaced it with Poison arrow... I was gonna use that...

 

It's the same thing, but the Weighted Shot is from a Morph and the option for more damage is there as well. I like it, it just sucks that it's magic damage because there's more mitigation against it.

 

I think siphoning strikes and haste will be superb for PvE and dungeons where you need some better resource management but in PvP, if you're going 1 vs. 1 with somebody, I imagine that you will want him to go down as fast as possible. Resorting to light attacks could be rather hazzardous if, and only if, you have enough resources to burst instead.

 

I don't know how fast resources will deplete, but from the Quakecon video is seems that you're able to pull off some rotation before running low.

 

While teleport and flurry is repeatable, assassin's blade is cheap and might do the same - i.e. killing someone with low health - that would otherwise require the activation of two feats, a teleport followed by flurry. Furthermore, using assassin's blade will give you some quick magica regen, which could turn out to be about as effective as resorting to haste+siphoning, which takes up two slots on the action bar.

 

I will also build my nightblade with 5 med / 2 heavy armor, so I agree that immovable is better than blur or evasion. I forgot to think about that feat. The first thing any alert PvPer will do when jumped by a melee nightblade (teleport strike or veiled strike) is to immediately break free of the stun and use some AoE, knockback, blink, root, stun to quickly turn the fight in his favour, and here immovable is absolutely crusial in order to stay on top.

 

About strife, the thing I really like about this ability is that it is the only long-ranged class ability which deals direct damage. This should mean that it can be spammed, which is really good when fighting enemies that are out of "gap-closer" range. if you're a magicka built nightblade, you could possibly even go toe-to-toe with other casters with this ability, until you can move close enough to teleport strike.

Having a HoT active everytime you go into a fight doesn't hurt either.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The secondary bar for the aforemention build would be for a bow. It would probably look like:

 

1. shadow cloak

2. poison arrow

3. scatter shot

4. mark target

5. snipe

 

In the quakecon video he was only using a few abilities at a time, but yeah. When he used Whirlwind and then Flurry at around 15:20 (that's 15:18 where he does Twin and then 15:24 about where he Flurry's here:

)

it only used up like 1/4 of his bar. I think it's key to only have 1 MP and 1 ST spammable damager and the rest of the abilities as passive though, otherwise either your spammed skills aren't as strong as they could be or you're taking more damage than you should be. Yes, some damaging abilities work better in specific situations..but I don't think they're worth taking right now when you could fill it with a DOT or something more passive..

 

I feel like if you can Assassin's Blade then you could Teleport Strike just as easily (but in even more situations). Yes, it costs double the resources, but it does almost the same amount of damage as Assassin's Blade does (13 vs 16) but it also stuns them and is usable at ranged. The resource difference is a big difference, but that's where Siphoning Strikes will make up the difference--but it makes you better for the first 80% of their health as well, not just the last 20%.

 

Unless Blade gets buffed a bit, then I don't think it's currently worth taking, but we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

 

Shadow Cloak is something else I disagree with, I think it's a 1-trick pony for getting a person within melee ranged to use Veiled Strike or allowing you to get Snipe off without leaving stealth. But, once you've left stealth, you won't get another use out of it except for little gags during combat --but it's not worth 1/6 of the bar either way.

 

Everyone else seems to like Cloak though, so my depiction of it's use while in combat might not be very accurate.

 

Your main bar:

Tele Strike

Flurry

Blade

Strife

Immovable

 

Hmm.. idk, I think Cripple might be better instead of Blade, if you aren't a fan of Siphoning Strikes. Which, without haste and also Force-Siphon, it might not be worth it to use Siphoning Strikes at all anyway. But yeah, I think that Cripple fits there better than Blade. Just opinion though, I'm sure in a lot of situations Blade will be amazing..as soon as they're below 20% there's no contest. Especially when fighting in groups, you'll be able to pick people off. Finishing power is always good to have.

 

Strife's helpful but you can use Tele instead for just as much damage and the stun might give you more time of survival than the slow heal would if they're attacking you.

 

So, if you replaced Blade and Strife with Haste/Siphon then you could just do that many more Tele's and Flurry's. It's just preference, but that's how I see it.

Things like Poison Arrow, which I've never seen for ESO, and updated stats on spells...

Do you get this info from being in Closed B? Or, what am I missing out on?

For tougher individual targets Weakness To Elements will be a dps boost, because it lasts 15 seconds.  In that time you'll hammer away many more than 4 times, so it will pay off.  For easy targets that might die in a couple of hits, I agree that it's not so good.

 

 

Rune Prison is your friend for leakers

 

I brain-jizzed when you said Rune Prison. I'm a huge advocate of always taking Rune Prison for PVE, this should definitely go in the 2nd bar at least.

 

I think the main bar is good how it is. Weakness to Elements is better in groups where it doesn't just help your weapon-attacks and your Lightning Splash. It effects all elemental damage, including the DK's fire damage and the NB should have Fire damage enchantments on their weapons. Weakness to Elements would also effect Storm Atronarch and maybe even Overload if Overload converts things to shock damage.

 

For soloing though, I would definitely swap Weakness for Conjured Ward so your pets and yourself can take a bit more heat. Great call! 

 

I edited this into OP, let me know if you still don't like something though.  EDIT: I changed things even more. I think Dark Exchange on main bar is a better idea, it gives you more MP to lay down Splashes, making it more offensive. I think this also improved how well the bow bar helps you survive.

 

Yeah, Oberon, I really hope you're right that as long as you're paying for the resources then you can get as many stacks of something you want. This obviously wouldn't apply with buffs/debuffs though, like you said, so I just wonder where they're going to draw the line.

The latest info has Mage's Fury with a base cost of 24 dealing 7 damage, and Lightning Splash at 53 dealing 4 damage/sec for 5 seconds.  There is a substantial cost difference, so the choice comes down to determining if the target will stand in the Lightning Splash aoe for any length of time.  One might imagine that he will not.

 

We also do not know if a Lightning Splash ground effect will remain in place if the caster tosses out additional Lightning Splashes in series.  I expect Daedric Mines prevents more than 3 mines out at a time despite the caster paying full price for more, but is Lightning Splash given the same harsh design treatment?  We don't know.

 

If the caster can toss out multiple Lightning Splashes, can he place them on top of one another or is the target subjected to only the damage of one?  What if several casters put their own Lightning Splashes down in the same place?  More questions without current answers

 

4 dmg x up to 5 vs 7 dmg x 1 is a lot different than what I was basing it off of @ 5 x <=5 and 6 x 1. With Fury = about 2/3 the price of Curse.

Do you know if they buffed Conduit (Splash's synergy) to make up for the weakened Splash?

 

I'm glad that Mage's Fury is buffed though, I think that was needed after the change from being spammable below 20% to one burst at 20%.

 

I think that even Mines will stay out with multiple casts, they made them fairly weak for probably that reason. It is very possible that they won't, and possible that Splash wouldn't either. I think it will stay because it has such a small radius of effect.

 

It probably won't work with multiple Sorc's and I definitely don't think stacking it multiple times by 1 Sorc would work either. I think that every spell is exclusive. Meaning 4 DK in one group can't give the group 4 stacks of Molten Weapons or give 4 stacks of Obsidian Shield making everyone unkillable.

 

Obviously someone can't apply like 5 stacks of Cripple to one target, right? I don't think multiple NBs would be able to cast Cripple on the same target at all either.

 

So, anyway, using those new numbers you gave I'd say that Fury is probably better to replace Splash with, keeping Curse instead of Splash even. I'll change it in OP.

 

Splash + Fury both being spammable would be too much overlap.

 

Edit: I left Splash in the PVE bar instead of Fury because I think 9/10 times the target(s) will be predictable enough that you can keep it on them with relative ease and it's still more efficient than Fury if it gets 2+ ticks off. Even if it's not as bursty, I think that between keeping your pets and (de)buffs up you'll want to be conservative with MP in PVE, esp with Exchange on 2nd bar.

 

P-V-P

Destro Staff – Killing from a distance

[*]Dark Exchange

[*]Weakness to Elements - If you don't like Weakness to Elements then I hear you, having Encase on this bar as well is a really good alternative.

[*]Surge

[*]Daedric Curse

[*]Lightning Splash

I would definately put dark exchange on my secondary action bar. There's no reason to have it on the primary because when you use it, you will want to be far away from enemies who might rush in a incapacitate you when your stamina is gone. Then you'd be easy pickings.

 

If you already have weakness to elements and surge on your bar, you might as well switch out daedric curse with mage's fury because it will get a big boost from weakness to elements. Then that will be your primary spam ability, and you'd probably want it anyways as it seems to be the sorcerer best and only "executioner".

 

Lightning splash, hmm... possibly too circumstantial. I think many PvP'ers will dodge it easily once they see it hit the area they are in. It should be very good in conjunction with encase and repulse though, but that requires close quarter combat. I'd switch it out for bolt escape in case you get jumped. Being very squishy, having a method of avoiding combat is critical. If jumped, one could possibly bolt escape ahead, stunning the target, then turn around and blast him. If he then moves close again, rinse and repeat.

 

 

The problem with moving Dark Exchange to the 2ndary bar is that there's nothing you can remove from the Kite Bar without weakening it substantially. You don't want Dark Exchange when you're using Immovable, either. I feel that Dark Exchange is a required skill on the 1st bar because you don't have anything else to use your stamina there. It's just the lesser spot of two evils, I wish Dark Exchange wasn't necessary.

 

Yeah, Daedric Curse swapped with Mage's Fury is possibly a good idea, especially because of Weakness to Elements. Either one of those will just be fillers in-between throwing down Splashes. Here's how Daedric Curse would work: Open with it on someone in the middle of the pack of enemies, throw down lightning splashes, once daedric curse goes off reapply it and throw down more lightning splashes. Things will die really fast because Daedric Curse is hitting hard as well as the continuous assault from Splash. On the other hand, if you take Mage's Fury: Lightning Splashes all around until something's about to go below 20% health, then Mage's Fury and everything will probably die from it.

The difference is that 1) Curse is way easier to use, because you don't need to time it to be effective. 2) You'll only really benefit from Mage's Fury once during the fight unless people are healing up above 20% and dropping back below. I think Curse > Fury in almost all situations.

 

The thing is that Mage's fury can't be used as the main damager because it is a one-time execution ability (yet Curse hits almost as hard as that execution strike). The regular damage from Mage's Fury is weak, it = about 1 tick from Splash (that has potential to tick 5 times) but it doesn't cost a whole lot less.

 

Lightning Splash is probably hard to use, but once you get good at placing it (should be easy on PC) then you don't have any better options for damage--even on single targets who are running out of it right away it's not much worse than other options. It's better for groups, for sure, and you can use it as a wall between you and enemies or anything. "Walk through it if you dare" type thing.

 

You're right though, this build's definitely better for fighting groups with.. but that's just how the Sorc class is. If you want the best of both worlds then you'd need to roll a Templar at the price of things being weaker overall.

I can't help thinking whether haste + siphoning strikes might be redundant. Maybe it would be better to use some more damage dealing abilities in order to just take down the enemy fast so that you don't need to regenerate your resources until the battle is over.

 

For instance:

 

1. teleport strike (gap closer to set up flurry - spammable too)

2. flurry (bread and butter dps)

3. assassin's blade (executioner which will regen magicka)

4. strife (long range damage + HoT before teleporting)

5. blur or evasion (activate right after strife and just before teleport strike)

 

Alternately, summon shade could also be used instead of blur to distract and debuff. Summon shade seems to go beautifully with resto staff and force siphon. It will keep your enemies distracted while you blast at them, healing both yourself and the summon.

 

Edit: Depending whether you're a high magicka or high stamina build, assassins blade could be subsituted with whirlwind.

 

The thing is that Flurry and Teleport Strike are spammable and work well in 1-->2 usage. Yeah, assassin's blade and strife could help you a little bit but it's just different approaches to the same thing. Being able to do more of that same thing will be better overall than doing it in a different way, even if in some situations those will be a bit better, the thing you said about redundancy applies to this build more than the original. 

 

Immovable in PvP is crucial for almost everyone, definitely worth having on main bar more than Blur, Evasion, or Shade.

 

For PVE I would still take Haste + Siphoning Strikes for resource mgmt, but Cripple (instead of Strife, because Cripple ticks for damage [giving you more Ult for an earlier Death Stroke] while Strife is just a nuke and then a heal over 10s) and Assassin's Blade instead of Teleport Strike and Immovable is a good choice. I think that the PVE damage bar maximizes damage and efficiency pretty well already.

 

If Haste + Siphoning Strikes isn't needed in fights due to your MP/ST + Regens being high then this would change this, but I find that highly unlikely unless you're fully enchanted for resources rather than power and then it still wouldn't be an advantage because you're not maximizing your Power.

 

It also depends on what your other bar looks like. If it's a buff bar then you'll need more resources overall than if it's a usable bar, so I'd still take Siphon/Haste on the damage bar. If it's not a buff bar, then you'd definitely want to replace SStrikes/Haste with survival things like Evasion/Blur, but keep Immovable on there for sure as well.

 

What would your other bar look like with that build?

So, which configuration would you guys think gives the better armor rating?

 

1. 5 light / 2 heavy (heavy for torso or shoulders and legs)

 

2. 5 medium / 2 light (light for boots and helmet)

 

Also, how would 5 light / 2 heavy compare to full medium?

 

It depends on the individual pieces of armor. It's probably like Chest > Legs > Shoulders > Helmet > Boots > Gloves > Belt and Shield would be somewhere around the same as Legs.

 

The stats on items will also vary though (+15 hp on chests might only = +13 on legs, etc) so you don't always want like.. Heavy Chest & Legs with the rest being Light if the stats give + something that you want more of on Light.

 

If everything were even armor rating though, it would look like this:

 

full light = 4.2

5 light/2 medium = 5.0

5 light/2 heavy = 5.4

 

full medium = 7.0

5 medium/2 light = 6.2

5 medium/2 heavy = 7.4

 

full heavy = 8.4

5 heavy 2 light = 7.2

5 heavy 2 medium = 8.0

 

Shield = add 1.0

 

Again, this is only with all armor being equal, which isn't the case.

 

With the examples you gave I couldn't say, but I'd guess that because considering it with equal numbers 5 light and 2 heavy isn't much less than 5 medium 2 light that with 5 light and 2 of the big heavy pieces VS 5 medium and 2 of the small light pieces... I think it would come out pretty dang close.

 

edit: What build did you have in mind that uses 5 medium 2 light?

Some of you don't like to read anything but Mechanics threads, so:

Altmer – Sorc – 5-6 Light 1-2 Heavy – Bow – Destro
 
P-V-P
Destro Staff – Killing from a distance

• [*]

Dark Exchange [*]Encase [*]Surge [*]Daedric Curse [*]Mage's Fury (Updated from Lightning Splash due to damage changes)

Bow – Kiting

• [*]

Familiar [*]Winged Twilight [*]Immovable [*]Bolt Escape [*]Encase

Ult – Negate Magic
 
Build summary:
Sorc's are really good at two things: Killing from a distance, and kiting. To take advantage of these advantages, I focused each bar around each thing separately.
 
With your bow out, you dodge-roll and get a speed increase as well as getting some + damage from a distance with bow out. The principle of the build is just to get away from fights you can't win, or being able to kill melee in 1v1 with relative ease: A melee user is going to have a gap-closer, so every time they use it you should use Bolt Escape. If they don't have Immovable active then case Encase and you're home free. If they have immovable active, then it turns into a resource war.. But, hopefully your pets give you the advantage here. A) your pets could do enough damage to eventually kill him if this guy decides to chase you too long. if they try to kill your pets, you turn around and start shooting at him and he'll probably get back on you. The trick is that you also need to keep immovable up or you'll be killed fast..meaning that it turns into a resource war, but I think your pets would give you a clear advantage here. I know this is a bold statement, but I don't think any melee build could actually finish you off in 1v1 if you both start with full resources...
 
With your desto bar it's pretty self explanatory, Surge, Daedric Curse, and then spam Lightning Splash all over the ground. This might not be the best 1v1 build against another caster, but in a group you're going to pump out sooo much damage it's ridiculous. Weakness to Elements combined with your raw damage will still probably be better than most others in 1v1 ranged vs ranged fights. The amount of damage this build pumps out in groups is absolutely ridiculous... and with Dark Exchange you are able to continuously pump it out for a long amount of time. This build is going to be exceptionally strong if you have someone on your team using things like Dark Talons or another Sorc using Encase to keep people rooted in one spot. Lightning Splash and Daedric Curse's damage is insane. Daedric Curse will be dispelled a lot, because it's that powerful against groups, but the costs them a lot more Magicka to do that then it costs you to cast it so the utilitarian view still makes it an amazing spell in group battles.
 
Negate Magic's self explanatory. This whole build's pretty self explanatory, it's awesome though.
 
5-6 light for the extra damage, 1-2 heavy for immovable and maybe a 2-piece set bonus. You'll probably want to be Altmer rather than breton for the +3% elemental damage.
 
Baha, this build... There's only a few things that I think could be replaced. If you don't like using pets then you could use something else but I think pets are the best choice for kiting, for both the reasons I gave above. If you don't like Curse then Mage's Fury's a good choice, if you don't like Lightning Splash then Daedric Mines is pretty chill, but Daedric Mines isn't necessary because it's more for melee, and your second bar is for melee.
 
It just seems like a super fun build, good for PVE too if you just rearrange your bars like this:
 
P-V-E
Destro-

• [*]

Pet [*]Pet [*]Surge [*]Lightning Splash [*]Dark Exchange

Bow-

• [*]Conjured Ward [*]

Encase [*]Bolt Escape [*]Immovable [*]Rune Prison

Ult – Storm Atronarch
 
The monster(s) will attack your pets and then you can annhilate them with Surge/Weakness/Lightning Splash combo of huge damage. If things get spicy then bar#2. In groups I'd even keep it the same, the pets could help the group out and with a real tank the multiple Lightning Splashes are all you need for huge damage. I doubt they stack in one area, but you can spread them between multiple monsters. Let the NB do the most single-target dmg, that's their calling, you focus on being awesome.
 
I really really like this build, it's balls deep. It might not be the best best build, but it seems pretty fun and it utilizes almost every aspect of the Sorc besides the tanky Lightning Form/Bound Armor/Conjured Ward type Sorc, but no matter how hard I try I can't make a good case for that build-type on a sorce..like I can't make a NB ot DK build that really shines as a ranged-only class, just doesn't work out too well. XD
 
Cheers! As always, let me know what I did wrong and help compile more advise for other Sorc's.

Can you help me understand your resto bar? Why do you only pick as a resto ability? I assume that you only use this as a buff bar, since you have no healing ability at all, besides siphoning. Using only Siphoning as healing ability has some weaknesses:

- You cannot swap to this resto bar when you are getting low to heal yourself up and survive. All your (small) heals come from only autoattacks.

- Its a cast. If you are in melee range people will most likely interrupt your cast and then you die. 

- Its only one target. 

 

Furthermore I see no protection against ranged magic attacks. Playing against a mage with unmoveable will be really hard, since you cannot sutn him with teleporting strike, and he can interrupt your flurry. 

Also I do not know if you can keep your resources management up. Everything is based being able to get alot of auto-attacks on enemy players. We will find out when the game is released. It all depends on how much mana your teleporting strike and unmoveable will cost to be able to stick to your target.

I recommend at least one extra resto heal ability/shield ability so you can swap to the resto bar and survive some "O shit!" situations.

 

I have a question about blur and evasion. I think that blur might also cause 22% of the spells to miss you. If thats the case ill take blur over evasion everday (and maybe even both). What do you think? Or could it be that evasion only causes auto attacks to miss and blur counts for abilities too. 

 

Yeah mate!

 

I'm not 100% sure on the distinction between Blur/Evasion, but we had a mechanics conversation a few weeks ago where irons said that dodge and miss both effect everything. I don't know if this is confirmed. Maybe it's something small, like being able to dodge AOE but they can't miss AOE.. Or maybe it's something big, like one's completely for melee and one's completely for ranged.. Anyone else able to make this distinction?

 

Either way they're both really good damage mitigation and bar-worthy.

 

So, for you, you'd want to fill that 5th slot of the resto bar with maybe Grand Healing? I originally had Regeneration in that slot, but I feel like through Heavy armor, Evasion, Blur, Immovable, Siege Shield, group buffs, and Force Siphon when you have enough time to pre-game with Force-Siphon, you should be able to survive well enough for the healer of the group to keep you afloat--allowing the build to focus more on damage than survival. But, if things do turn dire, then Consuming Darkness will save you in the moment. Force Siphon would only really be used to pre-game if you have time before-hand, it's probably only worth casting if you're in a smaller battle anyway.

 

Basically, force siphon = good for single targets, which is what you'll be focusing on while soloing. And in group settings using a heal like Regen or Grand probably won't be worth your time when you could be doing more damage and letting the healer do his job. Relying on Consuming Darkness when things are hairy is okay, it's really the best OSB in the game. (Oh Shit Button) haha

 

Against a mage with immovable, and especially if they have an interrupt on their bar, this build wouldn't work too well. With you being Immovable too though, it would just come down to who can cast more Bolt Escapes vs Teleport Strikes... Whoever runs out of resources first, which would the the Sorc if you can get siphoning strikes off while you guys are doing your weird..kite dance. (haha) or it would be you, the NB, if you can't get Siphoning Striked off. Whoever has to stop using immovable first would probably lose though.

 

The reason why I think Siphoning Strikes will be good, even though it's based on auto-attacks, is because with Haste and DW Daggers it's going to maximize it's potential. They probably balanced it around a standard speed so it wouldn't suck balls for something that attacks slow, so unless it's just a terrible skill to begin with (in which case I think it probably wouldn't be in the game, or it would get a buff) then it will definitely be good with both hast and dw dags. Otherwise it's just a crap spell, and I'd like to think that won't exist in this game.

 

Yerion, I've been meaning to ask you actually, what NB build have you been thinking of? I know you plan on being a hard hitting NB so you should post your current build ideas in this thread, I'm sure it's good!

Night blade is the only class that have instant magicka class abilities to enter invisibility. You can sneak attack or use veiled strike from both sneak mode and invisibility mode.

 

Stealth and Invisibility = the same thing? I took it to be separate things where invisibility is a more powerful version but doesn't give the same perks as stealth because that sounded OP to me. So this is interesting, and if it's true then it changes a lot. Can you confirm for sure?

using that how much mitigation does medium armor have?

 

34.72% for medium, 22.57% for light. These are based off of 650 light, 1000 medium, 1300 heavy and probably aren't too accurate, but it makes a good general guide.

 

~50% heavy, 35% medium, 22.5% light.  My random inputs at first were way off (30% vs 12%) haha! But, the principle for this thread still remains, so it's alright to just leave it I suppose.

nightblades can restealth instantly you know. no need to get out of line of sight and wait 3-4 seconds....

 

 

 

i think a viable nightblade build will be around stun-locking and invisibility.

veiled strike stun for 4 seconds. pretty long duration right there.

it set you off balance

- it let you follow up with a power attack to knock you down

 

...then you can re-steath mid combat with invisibility and re-open with another veiled strike for another 4 second stun and another off balance that you can exploit with another power attack to knock down. gg

 

 

the thing that make nightblades shine is the longer stun from sneak attacks (from bow as well as melee)

and the only class that have the ability to become invisible to sneak attack a second time mid-combat.

and the only class to have attacks that benefit from being used from stealth.

 

 

but if you want to go melee toe on toe in melee battle without utilizing sneaking, invisibility and opening up with a sneak attack or a veiled strike or snipe from stealth then i think you are better off with a dragon knight (durability from survivability. constant snare on all fire abilities and ability to pull back the opponent if he get out of range) and if you want to go toe on toe in ranged destruction staff combat sorcerer will probably be an a lot better option than a night blade. And if you go team vs team´... group vs group... then i think you can't really pick a better class than a templar (lots of aoe abilities, pbaoe abilities and durability for you and the group with heals and buffs... and with dawn's wrath you get excellent long range abilities that mix well with the abilities from Bow. very good group vs group synergies in that class).

 

 

 

Night blade will probably shine when they hit n run. you use it for heavy front load attacks. to mainly pick targets that are already engaged in combat, half dead or strayed off alone somewhere on the battle field. maybe for high risk suicide missions to take out enemy healers and support before getting killed themselves. assassins.

 

Night blade will probably not shine against heavy armored targets that put immovable on their hot bar.

 

 

 

the normal rock-paper-shotgun for rpgs?

caster kill heavy. sneak kill caster. heavy kill sneak.

 

I guess I'm a little confused as to how stealth will work. How will you be able to stealth instantly? Hit and run in ESO confuses me, because I feel like as soon as something's out of combat it'll regen almost to full. I picture it being a lot harder to get out of combat than you're picturing it.

 

Yeah, NB VS Immovable = MEHH, lol, even in my build where Teleport Strike augments Flurry it'll be a major bump in the road. I feel like NB will do more sustained single target DPS than any others because of all the synergies and the initial bursts from stealth is just a bonus, but they're definitely the most initial-bursty as well.

 

Templar has highest potential for a lot of things, but it's circumstantial and reaction based. DK has most mitigation, Sorc has a lot of things it has high potential for being best at depending on how it's built. But, let's keep it to NB for this thread.

 

After you explain how it'll work; can you give an example of a build so I can see how you bring it together? Initially I had made a Veiled Strike/Cloak build but it's evolved into the OP build because it comes together better in the end. I'm really curious about your build though, because it sounds like you thought it through and I feel like I'm just missing something.

 

I think you're spot on with the Rock Paper Scissors, but in ESO there's a lot of variables so I think it'll be at least a little bit less RPS than other games. (we can hope, right? Haha)

staying max 12m away from combat to use your pbaoes as a templar in light armor is unhealthy close in pve and suicidal close for pvp. you *will* die first and being that close to the action there is nothing (or very little) your tank can do to prevent it. 

 

i think a lot pvp templars will use a shield and one hand and/or heavy armor.

 

or even go hybrid between dps and support

- spending stamina on a two hand supported with instant 12m pbaoes that cost magicka

 

storm caller sorceres with a destruction staff will probably have access to the most mobile burst dps of all builds but I think that dawn's wrath (magicka) + Bow (stamina) have the potential to be the best long range sustained dps. in the entire game. (very useful in pve but also in pvp when defending something static, like a fort)

 

 

 

 

 

if you for a second are allowed to be very short sighted and general then:

 

 

nightlbade is probably THE class for surprise attacks, sneak attacks, killing off unprotected enemy support before anyone noticing or attacking targets already engaged in combat or already half dead. invisible illusionists. the spec ops class. the assassin.

 

dragon knight is probably THE best 1v1 close range melee class. the defender.  the tank. survivability and hard to kill being a high priority. hard to escape from. hard to kill in melee battle. the heavy warrior.

 

sorcerer is probably THE best 1v1 long range class. light armored. mobile. nukers and blasters. very magicka intensive. kiters. ranged death dealer with superior mobility. the paper tiger. 

 

 

 

and templars is probably THE best group vs group (both for pve or pvp) class. only class that have access to heals while wielding an offensive weapon. this class will thrive when having multiple friends and enemies close by so he can utilize the fact this is the class with the most offensive aoe abilities and instant fire and forget pbaoe buffs and heals. 

 

Hmm, that's true. I was initially going to be mostly Heavy armor to balance that, but I think the magicka is actually better for survival unless you're getting bursted down too quickly. And, the passives for Resto staff are a lot better than S&S for survival, so unless a shield has a huge amount of armor rating then I think it would be a decrease in your survivability.

 

Do you have an example of a Templar build you're thinking of? I can see where you're coming from, but I'm having a hard time making it work on paper.

Light armor and long range away from heat of the battle is the way to go for a restoration staff healer.Templars that heal will be forced to go much closer to the action. They rely very much on instant 12m pbaoe abilities (which you can trigger while you whack away with a 2 handed sword). They are also not forced to use a restoration staff to heal and can wield a weapon or a shield and a weapon. Much easier to build a hybrid healer of you are a templar.In PvE even Templars healers will use light armor and restoration staff, but in PvP I think Templars healers will mix it up.I don't think that you at this point can assume that armor rating and mitigation is linear. A tank with tank armor and tank skills will probably be pretty tough to kill and have more than 30% mitigation or what ever you calculated.As for race. There are 3 races per faction and all races are not open to all factions. You should probably find one race pet faction that will be good. Such as Argonians, Altmer and Breton.

 

I'm not really assuming anything..according to my calcs full heavy will give 48.8% reduction, not 30%.

 

Yes, those are the 3 races that I recommended in OP.

 

Your other bar is for damage, you'll want to focus on healing while you're a healer...being hybrid while trying to play with 1 role is pretty much always bad for group battles. 1 bar = 1 role = better.

 

Again, can you give an example build of what you're saying so we can see where you're coming from? I don't think it would fill either the role of DPS or the role of Healer better at any point in time than this build does. But, I'd really like to be shown otherwise so we all can benefit.

NB will be the best class for repeated ranged sneak attacks (Bow).

Everyone can build a sneak melee weapon based style fueled by stamina and dual wield. NB, however, have the option to rely on invisibility rather than sneak and magicka rather than stamina.

depending on play style magicka might be a lot more important than both health and stamina for a NB.

People pick faction for the people they play with. All races are not open for all factions.

Good races for a stamina driven stealth build (don't have to be NB) would be Khajiit and Wood Elf, Redguard and Dark Elf.

Good races for a heavy magicka driven invisibly assassin (have to be NB for this) would be Altmer, Dark Elf and Breton.

Survivability come from sneak, surprise, front loaded damage and hit n run rather than heavy Armor, heals, mobility or range.

 

I was just writing out what seems to be the best possible NB build. And, I don't think you read it because I am not in favor of stealth builds. I don't think "stealth based" builds will work at all in PVP, because if you're stealthing in combat a lot then you're not doing as much as you could be doing if you didn't have to rely on it. Out of combat, stealth's great, especially paired with Cloak.

 

Veiled Strike has to get a major buff in order for stealth into combat builds to really shine, and that's melee ranged. Snipe's good paired with stealth and Cloak together, but I don't think that you'll want to restealth..that would kind of be silly anyway because as soon as the target's out of combat they'll fully heal in 4 seconds, which is how long it takes for you to restealth (3s in 5+ med) meaning that restealthing in combat without killing something first is always a bad idea.

 

However, if Veiled Strike works when Cloaked and not just when stealthing..then that'd be good.

 

But, you're right, ND doesn't always need to be melee. I think Sorc will be the best at ranged DPS though, because 1/3 of the NB skills aren't usable out of melee ranged.

It's definitely possible to use ranged tactics in a lot of situations, I even said in OP that Bow's a good 2ndary.

 

What did you have in mind? Something like: open with a ranged attack -> drop some DoT's -> try to restealth -> repeat? I don't think this build shines for anything specific, which is always bad news for PVP. I guess it depends on what your 2nd bar is though, if it's DW then you'll still be able to kill magic fighters really easily and then you can kite melee with your bow bar? If you're going to do this strat then I'd say to still take 1-2(for bonus) heavy because you'll need immovable in order to get away from melee's while kiting, and you'll definitely want Scatter Shot.

 

All that race stuff goes without saying, but for the build I posted Khajiit's a hallelujah.

 

There are a lot of different builds that you can do, with all the classes. Like, I think NB with a Destro Staff will be really good if Mark Target only negates magic resistance, it'll be easy kills if tanks (which should end up being a lot of the population) end up stacking any resistances for dungeons (which I think they'll have to).

Honestly though, I don't think there's a build that's much different without being worse than the posted build though.

If you can you give an example of a build? It would help me see what you're going for? It's hard to imagine what you have in mind right now.

What is this? I mean, even my friends shove this garbage at me.

 

...

Okay, what I mean by animal husbandry are the animal mounts...well, horses for now, but, heck, maybe they'll have a pygmy silt-strider in the future. I don't know. 

 

But please don't spread those links around, you're making idiots rich by giving them exposure.

 

Hahaha, idk man! You just...idk!!! LOL!

 

And yeah, I can't believe people who's "job" it is to make youtube videos. They get paid a shitload and are usually about 1/2 of avg human capacity.. At least the money comes from advertisers instead of from the viewers. Everyone get adblock, stop supporting idiotic streaming! weewooo

 

I know what animal husbandry is because I grew up around farmers.

It's not bad, but there's just something about you that makes me want to grab a beer and make hot dogs. I like it, haha

The Nightblade class is best used for single target, and with melee weapons. It has a few unique advantages, such as Haste, Siphoning Strikes, and hardcore killing power synergy.

 

I've had several private discussions with several people about the Nightblade, and we've all come to a fairly common conclusion on what the best builds will include.

 

Because it's such a good class for single-target damage, the obvious main-bar is Dual Wield, which excels at killing single targets-especially when they're incapacitated, which is another good aspect of the Nightblade.

 

Siphoning Strikes gives nightblade a huge amount of % based regen, so the amount of regen they have isn't quite as important (assuming that enchantments and such are comparably beneficial) as the flat # amount of how much resource you have. Pair Siphoning strikes with Dual Wield and Haste, especially if you've got daggers on, you can imagine how quickly you can refill your resource bars.

 

But, what about survival? Nightblades can easily slip away at the click of one button, the Consuming Darkness ultimate. This gives the NB an unprecedented amount of survival that wouldn't be suggested by their other abilities.

 

So, we build this cookie-cutter spec based on these three foundations: Amazing single-target damage, resource management, and survival.

 

For your second bar you have two options, a bow in case you want to stay out of the fray, or a resto staff in case you want some extra survival. The difference is between Force Siphon which synergizes amazingly with Haste and DW Daggers, and Regeneration which would be used as your only heal. VS, with the Bow, having an AOE Dmg spell, Volley, which is always nice to have. And Snipe, which is also very nice to have.

 

My personal choice is the Resto Staff, but they're both good cookie cutters to base your build off of as a NB.

 

You will want to wear at least 5 pieces of heavy armor because your biggest trouble will be killing people who are in heavy armor, generally melee, but if you're in medium armor like the other NB's running this build without realizing that Siphoning Strikes makes the Stam not as important compared to the survival you get from Heavy...you'll dominate similar builds who are just in Medium. But, the skill Evasion that you get from Medium armor is amazing due to it's long duration, so you want at least 1 (so, I'd take 2 to get a set bonus) of medium.

 

Khajiit is the best class for this build, with extra crit damage on melee attacks it's the perfect candidate. Redguard's extreme amount of Stamina is the next best choice, but a distant one.

 

When it comes to killing a single target, nobody will do better. Expect to win in 1v1, and expect to be the target caller for your group--whoever you Teleport Strike to, is going to die:

 

Khajiit Nightblade, 5 Heavy 2 Medium, DW Daggers/Resto - PVP BARS

DW- Kill Bar

• [*]

Teleport Strike - Get on the target, stun the target for 2s. [*]Flurry - Damage the target for 1.3s for huge amounts of damage (more damage if they're incapacitated, so use as a 1->2 with Teleport Strike) [*]Haste - Amazing in conjunction with Siphoning Strikes and Force Siphon, esp with fast weapons. [*]Siphoning Strikes - Resource Surpreme. [*]Immovable - Unkitable = Unbeatable in 1v1 against a mage!

Resto- Buff Bar

• [*]

Siege Shield or Rapid Maneuver (Siege Shield will give you +10% MP Regen, but Rapid Maneuver might be better for your group because more people will be taking Siege Shield and it's kind of your responsibility as "the rogue" to take Rapid Maneuver. I'd take Maneuver.) - Supports Group [*]Force Siphon - Huge self-heal as well as helping the group against hard-to-kill targets. This, the fact you'll be on the front line, and that you're the best single-target nuker, is why you'll be responsible for PVP target-calling. Unlike a lot of Nightblades, you won't be stalking around not doing anything. Because...... [*]Evasion -  [*]Blur -  Because, with Evasion and Blur you'll be very tanky when you want to be, compared to pretty much anyone else. [*]5th Slot- I'd go either Summon Shade, Mark Target, or Agony depending on the situation and what else you're taking. There's a few other options too that I don't even list below.

 

Ultimate- Consuming Darkness

 

Enchantments: MP and St enchants, balance them based on use, and then all Power probably. Lifesteal on weapons unless you change the build for more damage (which will be better in groups rather than while soloing).

 

Stat Distribution: I'd go 50:50 MP:ST, 

 

So, as with any cookie cutter build, there's a large list of Alternative spells you might want to substitute for different purposes (usually, for what your group needs). Here's a list for your sidebar:

Summon Shade: Summon shade is amazing in PVE because it reduces the damage done by the target by 20% to your whole group, so it supports the tank and the healer a lot. I'd consider this (and agony) a staple in PVE as any type of NB.

 

Cripple: Instead of using Immovable in PVE you'll really want an AOE. But, because the only AOE you have is kind of a bitch, you shouldn't use Whirlwind. Just let the Sorc kill the packs of mobs! Cripple is a good choice for a replacement of Immovable in PVE because it ticks for damage, and every time it ticks it will give you more Ultimate, meaning you can Death Stroke the crap out of people.

 

Twin Slashes: If somehow you find room on your bars for Cripple and another damage attack, I'd take Twin Slashes because of it's power. Huge damage compared to Strife, which is really your only other option besides Assassin's Blade.....

 

Assassin's Blade: Increase your finishing power dramatically, hard to find room for it though-especially in PVP.

 

Mark Target: Some people think this spell will be really good, but I think it will only effect Magic Resistances so it won't really be good for this build. If it does effect more than just magic damage, then there's no reason not to take it, it would be amazing, and I'd recommend taking this over Siege Shield or Rapid Maneuver (which you'll need to replace in PVE anyway..but you'd usually replace this with Agony)

 

Agony: 4-mans without Agony is going to be agony for your group! Between Agony, Rune Prison, and Power Bash, you'll absolutely need one or two of these in order to complete certain mob packs. Easy choice to replace Maneuver or Siege Shield with Agony for PVE.

 

Drain Power: Drain power could give you a definite advantage in group fights, even though you'd remain a single-target killer. It has huge potential, but I see it as too hard to get off with this build's playstyle. If you were a tank, it would be much easier in both PVE and PVP.

 

Regeneration/Grand Healing might be nice to throw on your bar when you're leveling up, especially when soloing, but remember that it will take away from leveling up your class trees.

 

Purge: If you don't have someone around with Purge in PvP, then you need to make sure someone takes it. 

 

Ultimate: Death Stroke is the only other ultimate you should think about using. If you're in a good group, where your life's not really at stake too often, then Consuming Darkness isn't worthwhile. But, if you're ever going to die..you'll wish you had Consuming Darkness, so just hope that we're able to have 2 Ults and then keep Darkness on your 2nd bar.

 

Standard PVE Bars for this build might look something like this:

Full Heavy, or Medium if the Stam turns out to incrs your damage more than the +% damage, but you might not need the extra Stam because of Siphoning Strikes, you will be using your MP/ST fairly evenly and gaining it fairly evenly, so more ST couldn't really be used in some situations... But, you can probably use the same set as PVP for this build, since it's going to be enchanted for damage..you'll just want to throw on Fiery enchants for PVE instead of Lifesteal.

 

Anyway, PVE BARS:

DW-

• [*]Haste [*]Siphoning Strikes [*]Cripple [*]Flurry [*]Assassin's Blade
  

 

Ult- Death Stroke

 

Resto-

• [*]Agony [*]Mark Target [*]Summon Shade [*]Regeneration [*]Grand Healing
  

 

Let me know what you would do differently.

 

Okay...

 

Anyway, I was thinking, how about this arrangement:

[*]General Questions -->(Everything from race to armor, plus anything not covered by the subsequent five categories.)

[*]PVP

[*]Quests & Dungeons

[*]Crafting, Cooking, Fishing & Animal Husbandry

[*]In-Game Factions   -->(Fighters' Guild, Mages' Guild, Dark Brotherhood, etc.)

[*]Lore       -->(Stories, 2nd era stuff and easter eggs.)

 

 

"Animal Husbandry".... Bart Simpson.... Farmer Francis, is this you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyMv4kkSCvk

 

Seriously though, I think almost everything we talk about right now would still fit in the General Questions with that list, so that topic would just be too broad IMO.

 

I think it should be broken down into these Discussion Boards (in a different order, haha):

[*]Skills -- This would include threads about classes, armor, weapons

[*]Mechanics and Numbercrafting - This would be for deeper theorycrafting, beyond the general questions, for min/maxing and specific strategy exploits within individual mechanics or number-play.

[*]PC/PS/XB > General/Ald/Dag/Ebon (This would need these subcategories on each of the PC/PS/XB categories.) -- Guilds and trading posts would be included in here. This would encompass a lot, like ring-partners.

[*]PvE Discussion - Where we bring everything together for PvE

[*]PvP Discussion - Where we bring everything together for PvP

[*]General Discussion - For people just wondering about things like professions, and where to level up for their current cLvl, etc. This would include Lore.

I don't see anything to "view saved content". Oh well, I rewrote it in my edit of the post before last..but it's just not the same! *sobbing*

 

Ha! Anyway,  since we're on the topic of forum navigation....   David, can you make a big red "Meat Head" button for me?

 

edit: I discovered smileys, so now I must use them!           

Fkin fker... Where's the gd dm lst sv bttn?! I destroyed my beautiful ideas and I can't think of them again. I had such epic moments of awesomeness there for the threads, and now I'll never be able to share them.

 

How come I've never been able to find the Last Save button? Just knowing that it's there is what makes me mad.... I can find how to clear it, but not how to actually use it when I need it. Please, someone tell me how to use it...

 

edit: too late, it just re-saved. Poobutt.

I don't think that veteran points is a big enough label on it's own. It falls under multiple categories, pvp, armor, guilds, etc...idk if it's really necessary to label.

 

I think a Trading Post would be a good idea, but that falls under General under the specific console/PC you're on anyway...that that might be what the forum for PC/XB/PS4 is except for help, guilds, meeting up, and ring partnering might fall under it as well..

 

I think that subjects like these would all sort themselves out within those main categories....

 

I actually think we could get rid of the Alliances tab, since that would fall under the specific console/PC usually anyway.

 

There's a lot of things that will be localized by ps/xb/pc, as well as by factions. Maybe instead of putting like.. PC/PS/XB under General, and instead of putting Alliance's as a thread of their own, put the PC/Consoles as their own threads because a lot of things would just fall under these 9 Points:

• [*]PC
  

            -Aldmeri

            -Daggerfall

            -Ebonheart

• [*]PS
  

            -Aldmeri

            -Daggerfall

            -Ebonheart

• [*]XB
  

            -Aldmeri

            -Daggerfall

            -Ebonheart

 

Then, general would just be more of a Chill Point (I like that name, we should name our general chat the Chill Point).... And we need live Chat again too, because how else can I get people to play on PS4 with me and join my guild and allow them to fill my pockets with coin?

 

 

 

Where did you discover the 30% mitigation number for wearing 7 pieces of Heavy armor versus 12% for wearing 7 pieces of Light armor?  I hadn't seen the mitigation figures posted as hard, confirmed values anywhere, so this would be welcome news.  Are these numbers confirmed from in-game testing?

 

Also, the new skills spreadsheet indicates that Heavy armor gets 1% per piece of Heavy equipped rather than the flat 4% from the older sheet. This would make it 7% for a full set of Heavy rather than 4%.  It's only an extra 3%, but in the world of mitigation, every % matters

 

I agree that Light armor is the way to go for a healer Templar in any event, as Magicka cost/regen is a huge factor for them.

 

 

Yeah, 3% makes a difference. Thanks for that.

 

I forget the exact formula I used to come up with that, I did it a few days ago and those were the general numbers I came up with. It's based on 750 armor = 26% mitigation, and then irons posted something a while ago about light:medium:heavy being ~.6:1:1.2 values, so heavy = 2x light. And then we know how much typical armor someone will have at endgame from leaks. Thinking now, 18% more, just from the armor-stats, with heavy at end-game might not be right, it's probably a bit more than that actually. Let's see.... it would be 30 armor for 1%, and we're seeing numbers around 650 for light armor and 1300 for heavy, yeah?

 

I guess that'd be like 23% difference just from the raw stats rather than 18%.

 

Still though that doesn't change the facts enough. Like you said, the principle still applies that for a healer (especially a practically un-CC-able one) you're better off in light armor. The impact on your damage bar is pretty huge as well, which I actually plan on using a bit more than what most people would consider kosher. XD

Great idea. This will help the forum alot. So Veteran points, which catagory is that? Or do you want to leave it out until that patch is actually implemented, since it won't be in there during release?

But maybe you should add an "other"  catagory. Also "guilds" (for players) would be a nice catagory to add.

 

Veteran points are strictly PvP right? I haven't read much about it honestly so I don't know. Guilds might fall under Alliances since that's the separating factor, guild recruitment would probably be the main thread-topic in the alliance threads, but that's just a guess.

 

Maybe under general chat have sub-categories as:

General-

[*]Generlol

[*]PC

[*]XB1

[*]PS4

 

idk, ask David, baaahaha!