Musclemagic

I have a question someone might be able to answer, its about the sorcerer - "bound armour skill"  It indicates on the other comprehensive skill page that it gives +150 armour initially and + 560 armour at level 50.  I dont really expect anyone to know exactly but maybe someone in beta knows how comparable this buff is to is to heavy armour stats?  I was hoping to use it to make a tanking sorc.  Let me know what you think or if you have any heavy armour stats?

 

Thanks!!

 

560 armor is about how much armor full Light armor will give you. With 560 armor + Light I think it'll be about = to heavy. This is just speculation.

 

Any reason for going Light instead of Heavy Armor + Bound Armor? With Dark Exchange, regen doesn't matter much, so you'll have 21% more effective MP due to spells being 21% cheaper..but compared to what? As a tank you'll need to measure how often you can keep up your mitigation abilities compared to keeping them up with light armor on and see which one grants you the most mitigation..so it's not really just about how much mitigation the armor itself gives.

I can picture werewolves who shoot straight with machineguns. Everyone would be dead.

 

 

I think the werewolves I saw in Skyrim did have opposable thumbs. Pretty long ones too.

 

 

If you don't have opposable thumbs and neither can you shoot fireballs, I think it would only be logical to assume that you need opposable thumbs to shoot fireballs.

 

 

Case closed.

 

Haha! Epic post!

That's almost certainly beyond my poverty-level ability with JavaScript, but do you have an example of anything that comes close to what you're envisioning? It would be cool to work on some sort of character builder far off in the future.

 

Also, I like your categories as they're much more even between the sections. Hopefully I'll have the shells of the skills completely done in the next few days; then it will be easier to see where things fit nicely.

 

It wouldn't be too hard to have all of the sections minimized by default, with a corner option to expand one-by-one. I could also have a static bar to "Collapse / Expand All" that follows the screen as you scroll. Then again that's the type of thing that has conflicts with existing features, like that annoying black fade-out bar at the top of every page.

 

Yeah, I figured that it would be too much to get a bar builder.........

 

.... .....       .........

 

.... I HATE THAT BLACK FADE-OUT BAR WITH A PASSION!!! Haha!

Hmm.. here's how I'd set it up: (Everything's minimizable)

 

RACIAL Trees

Aldmeri trees

 

Daggerfall trees

 

Ebonheart trees

 

CLASS Trees

DK trees

 

NB trees

 

Sorc trees

 

Temp trees

 

ITEM Trees

2H  + DW + S&S trees

 

Destro + Resto + Bow trees

 

Armor trees

 

OTHER Trees

PvP trees

 

Disease trees

 

Guild trees

 

Soul Magic + Undaunted trees

 

 

Start with THESE minimized, and then let people maximize into each part or THESE into a more specific tree from there.

 

That would be the easiest way for me anyway.

 

Maybe make a "skill selector" where there's a button on each active ability that allows you to add it to bar 1 or bar 2... and then have a Bar 1 and Bar 2 somewhere on the side... That would be super cool, but probably a lot of scripting.. XD

 

 

EDIT: Actually, it's perfect how it is.. just make everything minimizable and possibly do the Add to Bar 1 or Add to Bar 2 thing in the future. XD

Sorry for the double post--

 

Doczero asked me to further explain the buffed NB build I posted earlier, I ended up making revisions to it:

 

In 1v1, unless you're fighting a healer, you'll almost always want to have the following cast-sequence:

 

1) Force Siphon (since it's a cast time, if you cast this one after another pre-buff's applied it takes up 1.5s of the duration of previously casted Timed spells.)

2) Blur, Evasion, Summon Shade in any order.

-Swap Bars

3) Teleport Strike & Flurry until out of a resource.

4) Haste & Siphoning Strikes until you've got resources again.

 

-If the battle's going your way at this point, then Teleport Strike & Flurry combos until the target's dead, maybe using Death Stroke if they're on the defensive.

 

-If the battle's going poorly at this point, then switch back to Resto bar and reapply buffs, this time including Regeneration. If the battle's going really poorly, use Consuming Darkness and get out of there.

 

-If there's more than one target, the only difference you'll want to make is to cast Drain Power... Actually.. I don't think it's worth it.. Take Mark Target in Resto Bar instead of Summon Shade, and put Summon Shade in DW bar instead of Drain Power.

 

 

If you're fighting a healer then all you really want is Summon Shade from your buff-bar, unless it doesn't do much damage..then no need for the buff-bar at all.

 

Against a healer the sequence would just look like this:

1) Teleport Strike

2) Flurry

-Repeat 1&2 until out of MP or ST.

3) Haste

4) Siphoning Strikes

-Auto attack until able to use teleport strikes and flurries again.

5) Death stroke and it's over, low heals = dead healer.

 

A sorc healer with Dark Exchange, Bound Armor, Lightning Form, Blessing of Protection, and Regeneration + Grand Healing will be extremely hard to kill with this build. The good thing about fighting a healer is that they're not going to be able to kill you, between all your mitigation and passive healing ability there's no way they can get your health down as a healer. A tank DK will also be very hard to kill, but I think you'd get the kill first in 1v1 due to their lack of self-heals.

 

Between your mitigation from Armor & Shade, them being stunned a lot, and your high dodge+their miss chance, you won't take much damage so just Regeneration + Force Siphon (with fast Daggers that are also Lifestealing enchanted) means you'll probably have no problem surviving pretty much any 1v1 fight except against a mirror class. Even against a sorc you don't need to worry, they can do a lot of damage but have less single-target damage and less mitigation as you... also, dodging/them missing = the best mitigation in my opinion because it doesn't just reduce damage--if something misses then the effects don't get to you either.

 

At the same time as all that passive survival (passive as in not reaction-based), you have huge capacity for burst-damage to single targets.

 

 

Hmmmm... Actually... Now that Summon Shade is on the more active bar, I think taking Immovable is a better choice. It also balances MP:ST a lot better as well as giving you more self-utility.

 

 

Updated-

Khajiit – NB – Heavy Armor – DW/Resto

Resto (Power)-

• [*]

Mark Target

[*]

Force Siphon

[*]

Blur

[*]

Evasion (Unlock this by using Medium Armor before switching to 7/7 Heavy for all the passives as well as to unlock Immovable)

[*]

Regeneration

[*]

Consuming Darkness

DW (Lifesteal Daggers)-

• [*]

Teleport Strike

[*]

Flurry

[*]

Haste

[*]

Siphoning Strikes

[*]

Immovable

[*]

Death Stroke

Would it be to much to ask , if you could include  (if known) what levels we get each skill; Later you could input what level the morph come at at? 

 

I know most of the best skills are level 50, so would I assume that the morphs for these would come when we are doing 50+ and 50++ content?

 

I guess I am trying to use your table as a ESO skill building flow, sweet job!

 

It isn't really level dependent: You have to get experience in the skill tree to unlock an ability, and then you can use a skill-point to be able to use the ability.

For example, you can have your Resto tree fully unlocked before being able to unlock a single ability from Destro.

 

A couple people have asked about how many pieces of armor you'd need to wear in order to use the active ability. I don't think you need to wear any at all, you just need to have leveled up the skill-tree enough.

For example, if you level up in Medium Armor then you can unlock the Active and the Passives for medium armor. Then, if you change to Heavy or Light armor later on, you wouldn't get any of the benefits from the passives you've unlocked in Medium (unless you have a few medium pieces on still) but even if you've got zero pieces of medium armor on, you'd still be able to use Evasion.

 

For example, if you look at the quakecon video, he's level 16 in Aedric Spear abilities, but level 1 in Destro Staff.

 

I'm fairly certain that within the skill-tree, you get the first active ability unlocked at lvl 1(without any use) and then every 10 levels you gain access to 1 active and 1 passive ability.

 

Then character levels and soul shards (x3) give you access to points to put into those unlocked trees separately.

 

I'm not sure how this correlates with skill-trees that have less abilities/passives (like Soul Magic) but I get the feeling it'd still be every 10 levels of the tree. I'm planning on leveling up the Soul Magic tree really quickly to lvl 30 so that I can get Soul Lock and not worry about putting that shit on my bars ever again... To do this I'm going to put both of the possible actives from this tree on my bars.

 

Armor levels slow because there's only one active that you can put on your bar for it. I think armor/weapon skill trees will levels while in use, even without an ability on your bar, but it will go faster if you keep one on there and use the ability often.

 

**This is all guesswork**

Werewolf

Nord with no weapon. Claws, guys... Claws.

 

Vampire

Dunmer with well, their teeth obviously. Magic as well I suppose, so maybe a staff.

 

The Emperor

Imperials. The Emperor never has a weapon, he just dies defenseless in every game.

 

YOU are the reason why vampire and lycan movies suck!! "They can't use weapons because teeth/claws are cooler!" If I was a werewolf I'd wear kevlar and carry a machine-gun. ....I also wish that bad guys could shoot straight. XD

What do you guys thinks about this interesting build idea?

It would be for PVP and Solo PVE:

Khajiit – NB – Heavy Armor – DW/Resto

Resto (Power)-

[*]

Blur

[*]

Evasion (Unlock this by getting enough experience with Medium Armor [Thankfully you'll only need to spent 1 point to get the Ult, since you'll be 7/7 Heavy after that one point you won't want to unlock anything else in Medium])

[*]

Regeneration

[*]

Force Siphon

[*]

Summon Shade

[*]

Consuming Darkness

DW (Lifesteal Daggers)-

[*]

Teleport Strike

[*]

Flurry

[*]

Drain Power

[*]

Haste

[*]

Siphoning Strikes

[*]

Death Stroke

2 MP : 1 ST : 1.5 HP MP/ST will be kept up by Siphoning Strikes so you can focus most of your armor enchantments either into Power or HP. Force Siphon before haste+double dagger attacks are going to keep you alive (esp in heavy armor) for quite a long time.. pretty sweet resource synergy with those 3 abilities.

Start by buffing yourself for the battle at hand with Resto Staff equipped. Swap to DW and apply Haste/Siphoning Strikes. For ~15s you'll be a badass in heavy armor who's hard to hit and pumping out a lot of damage through teleport strike + flurry combos. Keep your MP/ST up with regular attacks.

If things stop going your way then switch back to Resto and re-apply the defensives until you are able to Consuming Darkness and escape.

Say you activate Dragon Blood or Spiked Armor and then you change bars, do you still get +12% healing from the passive? It's a "while affected by an ability from this bar" rather than "while an ability from this bar's slotted" passive..so I'd assume so.

Effing amazing start!

That's wrong.

Only effects which doesn't have a cooldown disappear, like Inferno (DK), or winged twilight, also passives only work when the are on your bar.

 

Yeah, passives(slotted ones) would only work if they're on the active bar.. but hmm, that opens up a whole new world then. What do you mean by no cooldown? You mean abilities that end over time? Like, if you cast Molten Weapons it will stay on for 45 seconds even if you swap bars after you activate it?

 

Hmm, so that's..pretty interesting. All of a sudden I like Sorc, NB, and DK more than templar a bit. lol

 

I've been putting off making an actual build since there are so many combinations from the info available.  Here is what I came up with for a sorc with a ton of defensive abilities that will have enough mana cost reduction/regeneration to spam mages fury and lightning splash.  I put some thoughts at the end as well

 

Breton Sorc w/ 7 light armor pieces

HP:20 points

ST:0

MP:30 points

 

Ultimate:

Meteor - unlocks rank 8

instant - 28m range - 150 ultimate - no cooldown

deals 14 fire damage

deals 50% to enemies within 5m

knocks enemies back 800cm

 

Bar 1

Destro Staff

Actives:

 

Mages Fury – unlocks rank 1

instant – 28m range – 36 magicka – no cooldown

deals 6 shock damage

enemies below 20% health take 18 shock damage

 

Lightning Splash – unlocks rank 24

instant – 28m range / 4m radius – 52 magicka

leaves a pool of lightning for 5s that deals 5 shock damage every 1s

an ally in the area may activate conduit, instantly shocking enemies for 15 shock damage

 

Repulse – unlocks rank 4

instant – 5m radius – 52 magicka – no cooldown

nearby enemies are knocked back 6m and snared 45% for 4s

 

Lightning Form – unlocks rank 50

instant – self – 56 magicka – no cooldown

For 6s

take 40% less damage

deal 2 shock damage to nearby enemies every 1s

 

Encase – unlocks rank 1

instant – 15m radius – 80 magicka – no cooldown

immobilize enemies in front of you for 4.5 seconds

 

Bar 2

Resto Staff

Actives:

 

Regeneration – unlocks rank 1

instance – 15m radius – 40 magicka – no cooldown

- heal nearby ally for 5

- heal for an additional 20 over 20s

 

Surge – unlocks rank 34

instant – self – 80 magicka – no cooldown

For 17s

increase power by 3

 

Steadfast Ward - unlocks rank 10

instant - self - 80 magicka - no cooldown

absorbs up to 120 damage from the next incoming attack

last 30s

 

Conjured Ward – unlocks rank 50

instant – 20m radius – 60 magicka – no cooldown

create a 24 point damage shield on self and summoned creatures for 20 seconds

absorbs 75% of damage taken

 

Bolt Escape – unlocks rank 4

instant – self – 64 magicka – no cooldown

stuns nearby enemies for 1.5s

teleport forward 15m

 

Passive synergies:

 

Prodigy(Light Armor) + Exploitation(Daedric Summonning) = +25% crit chance on enemies affected by daedric magic(encase and repulse)

Magicka Master(breton) + Evocation(LA) + Unholy knowledge(Daedric Summoning) = 29% Spell 

cost reduction and 39% spell cost reduction on lightning spells with expert mage on storm calling tree!

Spell Resistance(breton) + Spell Warding(LA) = +120 Spell Resistance

Daedric Protection = +20% health regen while using resto bar on defence

Capacitor(storm calling) + Recovery (LA) = +38% mana regen

Concentraion(LA) + Cycle of Life(Resto) + Potency(Mages Guild) = +13%-22% extra spell damage

Restoration Master (resto) + Potency (mages Guild) = +10% extra heal

 

The philosophy behind this build would be to maximize the amount of DPS i'm able to do by

minimizing the amount of kiting i have to do.  I use my large mana pool to stick buffs and 

HOTs on myself (bar 2 resto staff) at the beginning of combat and then switch to bar 1 (destro staff)

to unload cheap offensive spells on them and by then my ultimate will hopefully be high when my mana

is low so I can finish them off with a few meteors.  Switch back to bar 2 if i need to heal and 

protect myself.  I have a lot of mana sinks here but with the huge spell cost reduction huge mana regen i can hopefully keep my mana high enough to have spells like lightning form up all the time for

damage mitigation.  If i am having extra mana in combat I would maybe include bound armor in bar 1 or

the breton ulti(dragon skin) which is like a mana shield i think, instead of meteor.

 

This build might be weak to CC but maybe spell resistance counters some of that effect? 

 

I put destruction staff for bar 1 since it seems like a natural fit and the status effects of the heavy attacks mightcome in handy but honestly none of the skills seemed better that the Sorceror skills and the passives dont synergize at all so i don't even know if i would put any points in it... At that point just using a shield might be better since it would 1: Add to the potency of my existing light armor passives as another LA piece and 2: Increase my armor and addextra enchantment bonuses

 

 

I'm sure you've changed your build by now, sorry for getting to this post late. I just wanted to make one point in regard to your build-- 

Having a "buff bar" for HOT's and pre-game doesn't work, because (it's my understanding) that when you swap bars the positive effects all disappear from both you and your teammates. (Effects on enemies stay though.)

 

This is important to remember when making a build. As awesome as it would be...you won't be able to swap bars and cast Haste/Blur/Momentum/Evasion/Summon Shade/Molten Weapons/Surge/Etc.etc. before swapping back to your main-bar. That would be crazy cray, haha!

Which race and weapon combo do you think of when you think of a Werewolf, a Vampire, and the Emperor?

 

THE WEREWOLF (A Hell Hound! AROOO)

Khajiit – 2H

I guess it'd be a hell-cat, haha

 

THE VAMPIRE 

Dunmer – Dual Wield or Destro

 

THE EMPEROR

Redguard – S&S

 

A DRUID

Definitely a Khajiit & Restoration Staff

 

THE HULK

I picture a little Bosmer with a bow all of a sudden turning into a giant muscle-monster and smashing everything!! HAhaha! Wicked...

Orc would be the obvious answer though, unless going for irony..Bosmer ftw, rofl.

You could also make a very tanky build with the sorcerer class with heavy armor(plus all those def boosting actives) then throw in that one that converts stamina to magica,maybe spam bolt escape and add in some summoning.   AND BOOM! A competing tank.

 

I've been trying to make a sorc in Heavy but it just gets ugly each time. What weapons were you thinking for this build? S&S for PVE or would this be a tanky PVP spec?

Yeah I can see the group applications with shade and agony. My build is a very selfish one, but I think it makes up for it in raw burst.fIf the enemy does fast enough they can't hurt anyone else plus with strife on a target, and life steal + power in your daggers will allow you to take a few enemies in you while staying sustainable. Oh yeah I almost forgot! You need dual daggers. +10% sexy crit. That is going to be your best friend as a mainly assassination NB. Especially with flurry and assassin's blade.

 

Yeah, definitely dual rocking the daggers. This is especially true for your solo build with siphoning strikes on DW bar..but would be better if you went Khajiit! How can you like Dunmer more than Khajiit?! XD I get it, it's you...but Dunmer look just like everyone else now so it's not even cool anymore, haha

A list of my current favorite builds (Please critique)... Dungeon Builds with ***PVP skill swaps***:

 

THE TANK

DK – Dunmer – Heavy Armor – S&S + Fiery 2H

S&S –

• [*]

Puncture ***Fiery Reach***

[*]

Low Slash ***Inferno***

[*]

Ash Field ***Dark Talons***

[*]

Spiked Armor

[*]

Obsidian Armor

[*]

Magma Armor

Fiery 2H-

• [*]

Fiery Reach

[*]

Reflective Scale

[*]

Molten Weapons

[*]

Cleave ***Uppercut***

[*]

Reverse Slash

[*]

Ancestral Guardian (Tanks while you're helping DPS) ***Dragon Leap***

 

THE MELEE DPS

NB – Khajiit – Enough Medium Armor – DW + Bow

DW-

• [*]

Agony ***Shadow Cloak***

[*]

Veiled Strike

[*]

Summon Shade ***Teleport Strike***

[*]

Flurry

[*]

Assassin's Blade

[*]

Death Stroke

Bow-

• [*]

Mark Target

[*]

Snipe

[*]

Volley

[*]

Haste

[*]

Siphoning Strikes

[*]

Consuming Darkness

 

THE HEALER

Templar – Argonian – Enough Light Armor to have MP efficiency, then Heavy armor – Resto + Destro

Resto-

• [*]

Soul Trap ***Siege Shield***

[*]

Rune Focus

[*]

Blessing of Protection

[*]

Cleansing Ritual

[*]

Healing Ritual

[*]

Rite of Passage ***Hitskin***

Destro-

• [*]

Entropy

[*]

Piercing Javelin

[*]

Sun Fire

[*]

Solar Flare

[*]

Force Shock

[*]

Soul Strike ***Warhorn***

 

THE MAGIC DPS

Sorc – Altmer – Light Armor – Destro + Resto

• [*]

Surge

[*]

Weakness to Elements

[*]

Lightning Spash

[*]

Daedric Mines

[*]

Mages Fury

[*]

Overload

Resto

• [*]

Blessing of Protection

[*]

Steadfast Ward

[*]

Force Siphon

[*]

Rune Prison

[*]

Dark Exchange

[*]

Negate Magic

Thanks for the tips! You bring up some very good points. Doesn't look like I will have to change my bow bar PvE into PvP then. I wasn't planning on going straight into the fray that much in PvP, but I see your point that it will be unavoidable at some point. You also raised the fact of resource management with haste and SS, and the more I think about it, you're right. My DW bar is very magika nd stam intensive, and it would be nice to get my resources back after a 1v1.

 

I'm thinking about a NB build that used DW + Haste + Siphoning Strikes as 2ndary bar, to recharge MP/ST really quick (with DW-Daggers)... But I can't make that bar work. It seems better to refill from a distance whether it's your main bar or not.

 

I actually really like your build..a lot. The PVP bar you came up with is the exact one that I had posted a few times now, on page#2 it's the Khajiit's DW bar.

 

I might even say..that it's...the most perfect build yet.

 

PVP - Khajiit - NB - Medium Armor - DW + Bow

 

DW-

Shadow Cloak

Veiled Strike

Flurry

Teleport Strike 

Assassin's Blade

Eye of Fear (Either this or Death Stroke)

 

Bow-

Mark Target

Snipe

Volley

Haste

Siphoning Strikes

Consuming Darkness  - Poof! (Who needs heals when they can GTFO NP? Haha!)

 

It's the most perfect build because of how well it all comes together. But, it doesn't support the group enough for it to be considered the best build for winning Cyrodiil battles.

 

PVE Bars I'd recommend this:

 

Don't worry about Strife, the heal's not great and the damage alone isn't worth it. With Consuming Darkness on Bow Bar you don't need to worry about healing in combat, just get out of combat and you heal up super quick. And I wouldn't worry about Haste/Siphon since it's on your Bow Bar--and you don't want to be in the fray while out of MP/ST anyway, so it's better to just refuel with Bow out.

 

DW-

Veiled Strike (Since you won't need Shadow Cloak to sneak up if the target's chasing the tank, the 4s stun's nice too, and they can't get out of the stun because they're off-balance. )

Flurry

Assassin's Blade

Summon Shade

Agony

Bow

-Same bar as PVP, I've been trying to make it better for just PVE but I think it's spot on.

 

All cleaned up:

 

THE MELEE BUILD

NB – Khajiit – Medium Armor – DW & Bow

DW- PvP (PvE)

[*]

Shadow Cloak (Agony)

[*]

Veiled Strike

[*]

Flurry

[*]

Teleport Strike (Summon Shade)

[*]

Assassin's Blade

[*]

Eye of Fear

Bow-

[*]

Mark Target

[*]

Snipe

[*]

Volley

[*]

Haste

[*]

Siphoning Strikes

[*]

Consuming Darkness

Oh ffs Mark Target, Weakness to Elements, Blinds...

Yea, but u can bet it will cost some sort of resource to break out of CC. I guess Stamina.

How do u want to make up for 21% less Magicka costs and 24% more Magicka regen by just skilling more Magicka in the first place?

Your build is Magicka only with the exception of ONE skill.

Yeah, definitely. I agreed with you from the beginning on this, dispel in PVP's an essential- I just wanted to know what you were talking about specifically.

The difference is passive damage reduction through armor VS being able to spam more abilities, it's not as easy as seeing how much less MP you'll have and saying that Heavy Armor won't work. If you are able to cast X% more abilities then hopefully you take that same X% less damage (or close to it) rather than Y% less damage.

I mean, if they make it so it's X% more abilities (which can be used to mitigate damage themselves) VS Y% less damage, then it wouldn't be balanced at all. Either X > Y or Y > X.

So, really, they have to be X=Y to make it balanced... The PVP balance team isn't full of idiots (let's hope) so we have to assume that it will come out even.

Dunmer NB/DW+bow/Medium -PvE

DW:

Flurry

Assassin's blade

Haste

Siphoning strikes

Strife

Death stroke

Bow:

Mark target

Volley

Snipe

Haste

Siphoning strikes

Ultimate - undecided

The strategy for this build is to utilize the DW as main focus, however the bow provides necessary AOE and ranged dps when melee is simply too dangerous. Haste and siphoning strikes are in both hotbars for magika and stam regeneration. Simply pop haste, turn on siphoning strikes, and basic attack away to get your resources back. I also included strife on my main bar for DoT purposes, and because of the passive skill in siphoning that gives ultimate every time a siphoning ability does damage. Before boss fights I would have my bow out first and mark the target, then switch back to melee DW. I would always keep strike up, and burst with flurry until both resource pools are very low. At which point I turn on haste and siphoning strikes to get back up, and awards continue bursting again. This would continue until assassin's blade reaches it's point where it recieves it's damage increase, and then spam that and flurry for as long as I can. Death stroke would be used when ultimate is maxed for maximum damage and single target dps.

PvP build - same weapons and armor but different hotbars (same character)

DW:

Veiled strike

Flurry

Assassin's blade

Teleport strike

Shadow cloak

Death stroke

Bow:

Mark target

Snipe

Cripple

Agony

Strife

This PvP build is slightly different, but has much adaptability. The main focus is on DW if it is possible to get in range and burst down the target relentlessly while also stun locking them as much as possible. No matter what I would start out with my bow and mark the target. In a typical scenario I would then switch to DW and veiled strike the target if at all possible, if not then teleport strike will suffice. While the target is stunned I will get in as many flurries as I can to bring their health down. As soon as the stun ends I would shadow cloak and veiled strike them again, again flurrying them. By this point they should be at very low health and be susceptible to assassin's blade. Death stroke would also be a good finisher if assassin's blade drains magika too low, and would still give magika upon the target's death because it is an assassination ability. Now in a realistic scenario his ranged buddy might be very pissed off that I killed his friend, and start attacking me. This is when I would switch over to my bow, Mark his ass, and DoT him up with strife and cripple. Agony could be used by itself in an oh shit type scenario if I need to get away or if I need to gain resources. It could be used to even get closer without them dealing damage to me, but them getting hurt in the process. After his friend is DoTed up I would switch back to DW and teleport strike to him, repeating single target melee strategy. You may be asking why I have snipe on my bow action bar. This is for an alternative plan if I am with a group of nightblades. We would sneak into hostile areas and take out high priority targets by stealthing, marking the target's, and sniping all at once. This might be a glass canon build but I like to view it as they can't hurt you if they can't see you, that's why there is so much emphasis on shadow cloak and veiled strike

Thanks to everyone who stuck around and read it all! Please comment with any questions or criticism if you have any, I would be happy to respond. Tell me what you guys think.

I like it, I would just say that Volley's a really good ability in PVP as well. It may be more beneficial to take Volley than Strife, and here's my reasoning: Your DW bar's your main bar, it'll do more single-target damage. So, you'll want to use your DW bar on single-targets, and then use your Bow bar when things are heavy on the front lines. Strife can only heal you for 30% of the damage done by the last Strife you cast, so while it's healing you there's no point of casting another Strife... So in group battles, Strife's not very important for the heal or for the damage. I know in 1v1 it's good to have, but you have your DW bar for that. I think having a ranged AOE is a really good idea for group fights, and the fact that Volley immobilizes enemies makes it really good for your group.

A good Bow Bar for your DW might include Haste and Siphoning Strikes, they synergize nicely and allow you to refill your resources to get more volleys off. I'd keep Mark Target and Snipe because they're awesome. Agony is amazing as well though...Agony has a 1.5s cast time, so you'll probably get interrupted a lot in group fights, and then in 1v1 if the enemy has an interrupt then you'll never get it off unless you combo it with an incapacitate. To me it's more of a PVE move, (I mean, I know that Sheep in WoW is amaze-balls, but in this game you can get out of it just from spending some ST) Cripple/Strife are good for single target fights, for sure, but I think your DW bar's better for single-target fights anyway, so I wouldn't worry about taking them.

I think this bar supplements your character a lot better. Use it to open, re-fuel before swapping back to DW, or AOE people down in group fights--you can also just pick people off with Snipe. It keeps you out of the fray when things are too hairy for DW bar, and when you feel like swapping back you just Haste/Siphon your way back to full then DW fresh as a mo!

Bow-

Mark Target

Snipe

Volley

Haste

Siphoning Strikes

 

Entropy as your only Magicka regen is not going to cut it! I bet you cant play a well rounded Magicka using Character in Heavy Armor only.
Soul Strike imo is a very weak Ultimate, I would got with Dragon Leap for that build, as u only have DoT skills and u need some burst.
 

 

Entropy is the only option that a DK using a Resto/Destro staff has. So, you're saying that this build just wouldn't work at all unless you were in light armor?

 

EDIT: At first I agreed with the above statement, but I have to take it back. If it wouldn't work, then Heavy Armor builds wouldn't work at all because it's either ST or MP you're sacrificing and there's not that many other ways besides through the armors to increase it. We haven't done the calculations as to which will cause us to lose more effect HP, going Light on an all MP build and being able to put more stats in HP  --VS-- going Heavy and needing to take more MP than HP. It all depends on the numbers, but unless they messed up really badly--it should be fairly even.

 

I think that overall for single targets Soul Strike > Leap. It depends on the situation, but it's quite a bit more damage overall than Leap is. The damage happens so fast that it's hardly a traditional DOT (not very spread out. It actually does more damage than Leap by 1.2s.) It also doesn't require you to move to their position (or be within 10-20m range to begin with).

 

 

Intereseting build, I like it.

 

 

But that brings me to somethin different.

When we post builds we have a scenario (group setup, encounter) in mind for it, that's why in some cases our builds are so different.

 

 

So how would your 4 man dungeon group look like?

 

 

the one I have in mind looks like this:

1.DK Tank (my DK build)

 

2.DPS with a little bit of CC mainly CC's which take opponents out for a long time and stuns and so on to interupe bosses + has at least the option to switch to AoE dmg so we can bomb. (DK?)

 

3. DPS with support, dmg mitigation, heals and so on (Templer would be a good one)

 

4. Healer pure healer  (my sorccerer build)

 

This is kind of what I imagine in a typical dungeon (Apart from the races being teamed. lol):

 

THE HEALER

Templar – Argonian – Light Armor – Resto

• [*]

Entropy

[*]

Rune Focus

[*]

Blessing of Protection

[*]

Cleansing Ritual

[*]

Healing Ritual

[*]

Warhorn - U

 

2^nd bar ideas: (Destro)

• [*]

Spear Shards

[*]

Restoring Aura

[*]

Magelight

[*]

Eclipse

[*]

Wall of Elements

[*]

Impulse

 

 

THE MAGE

Sorc – Altmer – Light Armor – Destro

• [*]

Surge

[*]

Weakness to Elements

[*]

Lightning Spash

[*]

Mages Fury

[*]

Daedric Mines

[*]

Daedric Curse

[*]

Overload - U

 

2^nd bar ideas: (Resto)

• [*]

Familiar

[*]

Winged Twilight

[*]

Rune Prison

[*]

Dark Exchange

[*]

Force Siphon

 

 

THE MELEE

NB – Khajiit – Medium Armor – DW

• [*]

Summon Shade

[*]

Hidden Blade

[*]

Veiled Strike

[*]

Flurry

[*]

Assassin's Blade

[*]

Eye of Fear - U

 

2^nd bar ideas: (Bow)

• [*]

Agony

[*]

Drain Power

[*]

Haste

[*]

Snipe

[*]

Volley

 

 

THE TANK

DK – Dunmer – Heavy Armor – S&S

• [*]

Puncture

[*]

Ash Field

[*]

Low Slash

[*]

Spiked Armor

[*]

Obsidian Armor

[*]

Magma Armor - U

 

2^nd bar ideas: (DW)

• [*]

Molten Weapons

[*]

Dragon Blood

[*]

Reflective Scale

[*]

Fiery Reach

[*]

Flurry

[*]

Twin Slashes

[*]

Whirlwind

-Spiked Armor

-Obsidian Shield

-Grand Healing

-Regeneration

-Magma Armor

DW-

-Fiery Reach

-Entropy

-Searing Strike

-Twin Slashes

-Inferno

-Soul Strike

 

*UPDATED 10-26-'13* Dunmer – DK – Heavy – DW + Resto - PVP + PVE

DW- Strategy = Attack order: Fiery Reach > Entropy > Searing Strike > Twin Strikes > Flurry Spam until dead. Goal = Single Target Killin!!

• [*]

Fiery Reach – M (Bring them in)

[*]

Entropy - N/A (DOT + Magicka + 15% next magic dmg ability)

[*]

Searing Strike – M (single-target DOT)

[*]

Twin Strikes - S (single-target Dmg + DOT)

[*]

Flurry – S (single-target spam)

[*]

Soul Strike - U (Single-target heavy DOT)

Resto- Strategy = Keep the group buffed  Goal = Group battle support!

• [*]

Obsidian Shield - M (Absorbs %dmg taken by all friendlies in area)

[*]

Molten Weapons - M  (Buffs friendlies in the area's Power)

[*]

Blessing of Protection - M  (+Armor and +Resistances for friendly's in area)

[*]

Regeneration - M (Small heal + HOT) I wish I could take Dragon Blood or Spiked Armor here to increase self-healing received by 12%(huge) but it doesn't fit.. Maybe take Spiked Shield instead of Molten Weapons and move Molten Weapons up to bar 1 instead of Flurry.

[*]

Grand Healing - M (Hopefully, between the buffs and spiked armor, this is the only heal that your party will need.)

[*]

Magma Armor – U (Perfect for group battles! *Oh Sh!t button+Big damage*)

 

But when it comes to actual healing power, nothin but Temp!!

 

 

@ Irons, I want to clear the water--

I'm sorry that I got all butt-hurt over what you said. XD It made me say things about your build that I didn't entirely mean. I do actually like your DK build a lot.

 

It's only affected me because I respect you. I know it's just one build, but there are a few statements you said that really wounded my pride. [paraphrased but not exhaggarated] 1) "My build's the worst dk pve tank build you've ever seen" - This is just asinine. 2) "That I didn't think about this build before posting it." - Of course I did. & "Because people respect my builds, I shouldn't have posted such a bad build." - This build's great...so...no. 3) "I ignored all of your points" – Simply wrong; in fact I thoroughly addressed every single thing you said, so that's ludicrous. It's especially ludicrous because you're the one who kept choosing not to address any of my points that I tried hard to explain. I felt like you weren't giving me enough information to warrant any of your points, I couldn't see your reasoning. I should have asked for clarification though, before I tried to defend things.

 

 

Of course, the main reason that those are such ridiculous statements is because my build's nearly the same as yours. The few exceptions are that you're using Low Slash instead of Immovable and I'm using Obsidian Shield instead of Dark Talons on our S&S bars. Our DPS is similar, too, mine doesn't have a tank ability in it and mine's single target while yours is aoe. Since they're so similar, I don't see why you hate my build so much,

 

I would have listened to your points more if you would have tried to give alternatives. The only thing that it felt like you tried to give alternates for while you were dissecting my build was my choice of Race. You actually made me think I might go with Dunmer instead of Breton on this build though, so thank you.

 

I gave you my reasons to put Obsidian Shield on your S&S bar instead of Dark Talons. This is the only recommendation that I'd make for your build, other than this I think it's as perfect as it can get other than focusing the DPS bar with another DPS ability instead of Immovable. The debate between AOE vs Single Target doesn't matter, both will be needed in certain situations so both are just as good of a choice unless we find out otherwise.

 

I'm trying to be constructive with your build by saying that one small change might make your tanking go a bit smoother, and that is by trading Talons for Obsidian. Another thing that may or may not be beneficial-depending on how important it is to overcome incapacitates in PVE-would be to switch Low Slash with Immovable, but then I saw your point that Low Slash affects the whole group—so I think that's the better choice for sure! Good call! I also think you should use Molten Weapons instead of Immovable on your 2H bar to give it more focus as a damage bar, but that's probably not too important.

 

(Low Slash makes me realize that Summon Shade is really good to have in dungeons as a NB because it helps the whole group take less damage! I'll need to remember this while consulting my NB leveling partner. ^^)

 

If it was anyone else, I wouldn't care if they said those things about this build.. But, honestly, for the purpose of this build (PVE dungeon tanking > Single-target DPS) it's actually a really really good build.. so I just don't think your statements weren't warranted.

 

I sincerely apologize for any emotional rises I may have caused, and for the ones that I clearly had while replying to your posts before. I really do like your build and I'm only trying to be constructive. I hope you can see why I was immediately upset by your statements though.

 

For real, I'm sorry for the rise in temperature.

 

 

 

 

PS - Just updated my planned build in Original Post to:

DW –

• [*]

Focused Charge

[*]

Twin Slashes

[*]

Entropy

[*]

Sun Fire

• [*]

Solar Flare

[*]

Warhorn (Nova in PVE)

Resto –

• [*]

Immovable

[*]

Rune Focus

[*]

Blessing of Protection

[*]

Cleansing Ritual

[*]

Healing Ritual

[*]

Barrier (Right of Passage in PVE)

I have to disagree. You ingore lot's of my points and I'm sorry but I have the feeling that you just want to defend your build.

A few examples:

That Obsidian shield has a different describtion that they others doesn't matter, the dmg mitigation of the other skills to help you to keep up obsidian shield only works if you cast oblivion shield at the right position if it even works what we don't know.

Your point for Breton was that it has more ressources than the others so you can spend more points on HP.

If you take away adrenalin rush (which adds 34 stamina every 3s). than you compare 7 points which you gain per sec no matter if you use a skill or not with 3 points less per spell and a spell will also take 1s to use (animation). That's why I say your math is off.

The taunt doesn't last 5s it lasts 10s (last time I checked it) that means I have plenty of time to switch the bar to use immoveable where I 'm not even sure that I need it because at the other bar I have 3 dmg mititgation skills alone. But the nice thing is that when I switch to my 2H that I'm able to deal more dmg.

Than you say that Ash Field is better than Dark Talon, but I don't pick one over the other I use both. So I don't understand where you wanna go with that.

And you say that I shouldn't focus on dmg because the group will do it where I agree but in the same post you say that I don't deal enough dmg.

I have enough for me your build isn't really good and it seems that you think the same way over my build which is fine but I just no longer want to argue with you when you keep ingoring my points.

PS I won't make any further comments on that build because I think I have allready said what I wanted to say

 

I quoted every single one of your points and addressed them... I'll do it again--

 

:That Obsidian shield has a different describtion that they others doesn't matter, the dmg mitigation of the other skills to help you to keep up obsidian shield only works if you cast oblivion shield at the right position if it even works what we don't know.

 

It can only take so much damage, you said it isn't as good as say... Conjured Ward which is a 24 point bubble for you and pets, but OS is a 26 point bubble for yourself and 13 for everyone else even though it only absorbs 40% instead of 100% it doesn't change that it's a bubble that is absorbing damage rather than a mitigation ability, meaning it scales like a heal rather than a mitigation... but okay, I already said that if OS turns out to not be good, I'd use Inferno instead.

 

Your point for Breton was that it has more ressources than the others so you can spend more points on HP.

If you take away adrenalin rush (which adds 34 stamina every 3s). than you compare 7 points which you gain per sec no matter if you use a skill or not with 3 points less per spell and a spell will also take 1s to use (animation). That's why I say your math is off.

 

Yeah, I know they have the best ST regen. The problem is that ST isn't as required as MP for this build, so getting more MP is worth more. And, you're ignoring the mRes, which directly benefits tanking--the whole point of being Breton is for the mRes (assuming it scales.)

 

Being Breton or Redguard isn't a big difference though anyway, they're both fine.

 

The taunt doesn't last 5s it lasts 10s (last time I checked it) that means I have plenty of time to switch the bar to use immoveable where I 'm not even sure that I need it because at the other bar I have 3 dmg mititgation skills alone. But the nice thing is that when I switch to my 2H that I'm able to deal more dmg.

 

I don't think I ever said 5s taunt.. but yeah, you can switch bars after you puncture everything if you really want...except it defeats the purpose of being a tank to begin with. The extra damage you do isn't worth it compared to a DPS build and by trying to do that extra damage you are making your build impossible to use as well as you should be able to...

 

Than you say that Ash Field is better than Dark Talon, but I don't pick one over the other I use both. So I don't understand where you wanna go with that.

And you say that I shouldn't focus on dmg because the group will do it where I agree but in the same post you say that I don't deal enough dmg.

 

There's not enough room on the bar for 2 skills that are so similar... You say you'll use them together but to what purpose? You can use one or the other, and Ash Field is better so you should use it instead of Dark Talons.

 

You don't deal enough damage to justify being a 2h-tank. Why not be a GOOD tank and then have a GOOD dps build when the situation requires DPS?? This is the confusing part to me. 

 

PS I won't make any further comments on that build because I think I have allready said what I wanted to say

 

Well, that's a shame. I'd like to hear the reasons.

 

If you change your mind--While trying to find an actual flaw or something that could be better with my build-- I do ask that you address some of the points I made with quotes rather than things that I never said.  If you have a reason for my build being bad, or even the worst pve dk tank build ever, then please share so I can correct it.

In case you guys didn't notice the edit, I've put my favorite build in the 1st post of this thread. It's the one I'd like to hear critique of, if you're planning on constructively criticizing one of the builds, please do that one. The other 5 I posted up there are mostly to give people ideas. Thanks!

Okay I personal think you have over done it with your dmg mitigation skills.With all your buffs you have only 7,5% more dmg mitigation than I have while you have a lower HP reg.

 

To get those numbers you'd need to be using both your bars at once, which doesn't seem possible because you're going to need to keep S&S on while tanking--mainly for the taunt. Somehow I'm not seeing the higher HP Reg? You mean the 5% extra from taking Dark Talons? :S

 

Than Obsidian Shield really doesn't seem to be that great to me any more:Take a look a Conjured Ward (Sorccerer) it's quite similar to Obsidian Shield. If the OS also gains 11.5 times stronger at lvl 50 it will be to weak to be useful. Than you said that you would gain 15% stamina which I don't think is true, I think it's just 5%.

 

I agree, OS isn't the best ability--but if it is going to give 5% ST per target then it's worth taking because there's not really a better option even if it is 5% capped then I'd probably take inferno there instead. @ 50 if it's 11.5x stronger then that's a 300 dmg shield on yourself (but the 40% stays for 750 total damage taken, since 40% of 750 = 300...so you only need to re-apply it on yourself every 750 damage, which is actually a lot since you'll be taking 56% less damage with the other two actives it turns into 40% off of the next 1340 damage taken... which is actually a huge amount of additional mitigation.

 

I was wrong about the math on Obsidian Shield before, because the damage bubble is taking damage at the same time as you, so it should be calculated as a damage bubble rather than a flat % mitigation.

 

Another thing is your otherbar is single target focused which you say is better than AoE. After my expierence however it's better to have AoE on you if single target is needed I would simply switch cleave for reverse slash.Than again you say that my bar is useless because I would die to quickly, but I still would have the buffs of Spiked Armor & Immoveable and if needed Ash Cload, even the effect of low slash stays up longer than obsidian shield, and that hotbar would be mainly for phases where you have to quickly kill of mobs which the boss spawned those mobs normaly don't hit to hard.

 

They're going to try to make this game have more strategy than just raw numbers, that will include a couple mechanics where you need to do as much AOE damage as possible--but I think this will be rare. Most the time you're going to have order-of-importance fights where you need to kill a certain target fast to make the rest of the fight easier. This is great when your partners can incapacitate other targets for a long period of time (Agony/Rune Prison/Power Bash type stuff) and then you can burn down a single-target before switching to tank bar and killing the rest of the mob.

 

You could be right, that AOE's needed more often, in which case I could put more AOE abilities on the bar and be fine..  This argument over AOE vs Single-Target being more important in PVE is very opinionated, since we have nothing to base it off of from ESO itself.

 

Your 2H bar's not useless, sorry, it's kind of..pointless though. What's the point of taking tank abilities on your DPS bar? In other games hybrid tanks don't work well in hard fights as much as coordinated groups with set roles do, I feel like you're too jumbled for a real PVE build..but that's just opinion too.

 

Than your Breton logic is off. The Redguard has from all races the best ressource gain. He has 10% more stamina regs more stamina and gains stamina when he hits a mob (with a cooldown). Your Breton might has more magicka also 10% and reduced spell cost but you spam stamina abilities plus even if you would spam magicka attacks the Redguard would still have more ressources.

 

Redguard has best ST resources, which is only used by Puncture on my S&S bar and for Twin Slashes/Flurry on DW bar (that will only be used very rarely.)

 

Breton has the benefit of all mRes as well as MP +cheaper spells which is more important than ST by far for my build.

 

 

Another thing Flurry.It's a channel, we know that if you click 3 times a light attack you have to wait until that chain of command is done. So I think it's fair to say that it will be the same with Flurry okay 1.3s isn't long it might could cause you problems.

 

If channeling for 1.3s is too long then you shouldn't be trying to DPS at that moment, usually. I see where you're coming from, but it's the best single-target melee dmg ability out there. If it proves unusable for some reason then Entropy would be nice to throw on there with Searing Strike, Entropy, then Twin Slashes (with +15% dmg) before swapping bars would be awesome to help boost the first-target's kill speed.

 

EDIT--- Actually, should probably cast Entropy before Searing Strike, and then Twin Slashes. Not only does it last longer, so it should be cast first, but I just realized that the +15% damage only applies to Magic abilities (so wouldn't apply to Twin Slashes)

 

 

You said that you believe that you can't CC bosses.I agree in the way that I don't think that you can stun or knock them down but I think CC's like a immobilize or snare will work on them.I don't use low slash for the slow I use it it to reduce the dmg of the boss by 20% which effects the whole group.Dark Talon is on my bar so that I can make sure that enemies stay in my Ash Field plus it's an AoE.And if a healer has some mobs on him he can run to me I use Dark Talon the can't get away and he can buy himself some time.

 

Agreed, I think snares and roots will work on some (if not most) of them. That's true about Low Slash, I never thought about it like that for boss fights! I'm going to try to incorporate that somehow in my next tank build (probably a Sorc one since I never make Sorc builds)

 

I think Ash Field is better than Dark Talons in almost every way except for the AOE Dmg, but I'll leave the DPS to the DPS builds who are synergized up for it (Altmer+Sorce+Destro+Light Armor+Surge+Weakness to Elements = Lightning Splash doing so much more damage than you.) I believe it's better to just focus on the group survival while they focus on the killing.

 

 

Searing Strike: That's a complicate case, I'm not sure that kindling will really improve searing strike, Searing heat apllies bruning effect to all fire abilities and I think that kindling only improves that burning effect.But that's just pure speculation.Than Dragon Leap for me that's a DPS skill you knockback enemies which for me is something I don't want as a Tankl. I want the mobs to be close to me so that I can take the dmg for the group.All in all your build lacks for me CC to really be able to keep enemies at you./Edit:I forgot to explain why Magma Armor is so great. It caps the incomming dmg at 3% of your max health but you also a 3% hp reg in combat. I'm going to use a HP reg build which means my reg will be way higher therefore I think in most cases using Magma Armor (whichs heals your HP/stamina/magicka) means that you outheal all incomming dmg. Magma Armor also deals fire dmg to nearby enemies which means that Magma Armor also uses all the passives of Ardent Flame, 12% more dmg inflict burning whichs deals + 200% dmg and even slows.

 

Searing Strike is a really powerful DOT (I think it's the only pure DOT without utility) even if it doesn't get all the bonuses that it could, since my 1st bar goal is single-target killer it's a must-have.

 

Dragon Leap is definitely a good single-target killer, not only does it do a huge nuke but it also pushes back the other enemies so that you can focus on killing the main target before swapping to S&S.

 

As for CC, I'd hope that one of the DPS or the Heals has a long-incapacitate. CC'ing to keep them on me isn't necessary except for in large groups, which as long as I can get close enough to them in Ash Field I'll have time to Puncture them all anyways--same goal as your one CC that's redundant IMO (Dark Talons).

 

Magma armor's good, definitely. Your bars are both so similar though... I don't think the goal of your two bars are different enough to warrant having them both. You can get rid of Low Slash and Dark Talon on your S&S bar, move down Immovable and take either Inferno or Obsidian shield as well on that bar.. There's your complete tank build, better than either one of your tank-bars alone. And, viola, you have a whole extra bar for doing a real amount of AOE damage or for doing anything else you'd like.

 

Our S&S bars aren't that much different, you realize, just Low Slash and Dark Talons for Immovable and Obsidian Shield... I think it's a much better tank-bar, and then you can improve your AOE bar (since I think it's possible that AOE damage could be just as important as single-target, it's a good idea) to actually do enough AOE damage to be beneficial to the group-- Maybe take Molten Weapons as well to help the group's total DPS since your goal of this bar is to help clear trash mobs.

 

I am not trying to trash-talk you, we're both thinking similar thoughts--it's just your 2h bar needs more focus rather than trying to be hybrid 2h/Tank for no reason (since you have an actual tank bar already--and you're not using it to it's fully tanky potential either.) You know?

thanks man,but in your and muscle magic opinions which do you think would be more powerful if i was a dunmer?

also waht ult is barrier lol.

 

If you plan on being Dunmer I think a melee-weapon'd DK is the way to go. +7% fire damage is a really big number.

 

You were looking for a Bow/DW Templar build, right? I've tried making a few of those and none of them came out very well, but that's because I always end up focusing more on the damage and turn it into a NB instead of a Temp because it synergizes so much better with Bow/DW spells.

 

I don't think that Dunmer's the best choice for Bow+DW+Templar though... Any reason you want dunmer or templar specifically? What armor are you wanting to use?