Musclemagic

My guess would be that it's around 5% to 7% of average spell cost, to match the regen passive of Altmer somewhat.

Based on rank 1 abilities, average spell cost is about 48. So, 3/48 = 6.25% extra casts (comparable to 7% extra regen). It really shines though when you use cheaper spells like Fury for 24. 3/24 = 12.5% extra amount of casts. Magicka Mastery's potentially really good, it just depends on how you use it though--like everything else.

Muscle i am not positive but i think backlash is a spell you cast on your enemy not yourself.

Aha, I've been reading it wrong this entire time. Thank you!

For sure, there's no build that can beat every other build. As far as a "best" build for every individual situation, yes, there's always one build that is superior to the others by at least a slight margin.

The best healer's temp, dk tank, nb single target, and sorc ranged dps. This level is where rock-paper-scissors will occur the most, but as the categories get smaller and smaller it increases the number of counters.. As we go smaller and smaller within each category, there is eventually a build that is the best possible for each individual situation. This means that there must be one build that performs adequately in the most number of specific situations (based on how frequent the situations happen, too).

But, there's always a build that's the best build at countering the "best" build, as well, that's why it depends on the frequency of builds. As soon as something counters more total players than any other build, that build becomes the new best build..but when people start countering that build, then there's a new best build, and so on.

This is why it's important to make notes on a variety of the best builds for specific niche's, because once we find out what the currently highest valued niche is--then that's the current best build and you want to be able to maximize your potential in that area.

The best build also varies greatly on who you are partied with, like the best build for someone who's partying with 2 healing templars who both have Restoring Aura might be someone who relies on a ton of stamina attacks and is 100% focused on DPS.

That said, there will also be a best 2-man group, best 3-man group, etc.. Just because something can be countered doesn't mean that it's not necessarily the best possible build for the mast majority of other things.

In pvp you need to identify the problem and then formulate strategies, which is hard when you can only choose 5x2+1 abilities before you know what the specific problem will be... so once we identify a common obstacle in PVP that poses the most problems, the build we'll want to play is probably the specific build that counters that specific problem.

Anyway, right now I'm livestreaming if anyone wants to come and leave a comment--I have no idea how it works on PS4.

twitch.tv/musclemagic

Actually block reduces spell projectile damage (and ranged attacks). This amount mitigated can be increased by 15% by a passive in the sword and board skill line (not the mages guild). My source is ask us anything combat 2 (elderscrollsonline.com):

 

"Ranged physical attacks and spell projectiles can be mitigated with a block, but all other magic will go right through. You have the chance to interrupt some magic spells, though" 

 

This leaves us with the question, what are spell projectiles. Are those the normal and heavy attacks from destruction staff and resto staff? Or are they also single target spells (think of skyrim's icespike). I think they will mitigate both damage attacks with the two staves and from single target spells that do damage on impact.

 

This would change the whole problem with armor needing to mitigate magic.

The bigger question for me is, Will those power attacks from bows and destro staffs cause the player to be set off-balance when they get blocked? This makes no sense, but I'm assuming they must-for balance issues. I don't really care whether armor mitigates all damage or not, I think it should because otherwise someone in light armor might be the best tank against magic damage...and that's just not cool, tanks should tank, haha

Anyway, I gotta go stand in line for an early PS4... stupid me and not pre-ordering...well, my buddy who works at Best Buy was going to preorder it for me with his discount but then he pussed out, so at least I have someone else to blame for the next 4 hours of freezing my butt off and having to poop. lol

Thank you for all the responses. It is good to put things in perspective once in a while. I normally try to have no expectations of everything that I deal with in my life, that way I never get disappointed (it really works, I happily surprised by alot of things). But I could not help myself this time. I had very high expectations for Skyrim, and the game managed to exceed them. Oblivion and Skyrim are the best games I have ever played (eventhough I mostly like online pvp games).

I do no think I will be disappointed by ESO. I know it is not skyrim, but alot of changes that are made compared to skyrim are actually improvements imo. I know that some mmo aspects of the game can not be avoided. I still like the feel of MMOs, and will accept this trade-off.

 

As reaction to Kaloom; Do no think of the combat system of other MMOs. Combat in ESO is not about autoattacking and keeping up a spell rotation, while saving a few defensive cooldowns for dire situations. ESO combat is about using your resources at the right time. The more I read about the combat system the more excited I get. Imagine if you spam a single target ability, e.g. poison arrow,  that just does damage and yourstamina is depleted. This means your block will mitigate a lot less damage, this means you can not interrupt your opponent anymore, you can not dodge to avoid a ranged attack, you cannot sprint away from a charging warrior, you cannot break free of cc using only stamina. Resource management will be VERY important. It will be a dance of normal attacks, blocking, using situational abilities and heavy attacks. 

The more I read about the combat system, the harder I think it will be to balance. There will definitely be discrimination in what does well in PVP and what does well in PVE.

The thing is though...I LOVE PvP freedom even if it results in circumstantial imbalances!!!!!!!! I think it's what sets good planners apart from people who are just good players, and gives a higher skill curve on both a gameplay level but also a game-knowledge level. The higher the skill-curve of a video-game, the better the game is as long as casual players can still use it to get their kicks. There will be good players who are also good planners who will be at the top, for sure, and there's nothing wrong with that. If people want to be good, they can invest a lot more time and thought into getting better. It just makes people strive harder for greatness because it's more competitive, but the ability to achieve even greater greatness is here more than in most other games...and that right there is why I'm so taken by ESO already.

I've been learning a bit of Platonian theory lately, mainly being written by Hayek, and I think that there's a lot to say about having individual freedoms and only having one's self to blame--giving you more overall satisfaction with the world--than when there's a lot of control and having the system (rather than yourself) to blame for any injustices. Anything that gives players things to exploit and such is just reality, some people are going to find ways to use the system to their advantage and I think there's nothing wrong with that.

As soon as games stopped being okay with this, nobody has freedom because every character is the same after true balancing occurs. In WoW, every class has pretty much the exact same abilities.. Every ranged DPS = the same, every melee = the same, every healer = the same, every tank = the same, with very minor differences.

6 abilities works wonderfully to force people into a unique role. I can tell you guys, who might not have played Diablo 3, that 6 abilities is THE perfect number of abilities for strategic customization and strategic gameplay to come together. Also, in Diablo 3 I actually predicted the cookie-cutter-combos for all 5 classes before open beta, and they're pretty much still accurate to this day. So, to the people here who would argue that none of this early theorycrafting matters, that's not necessarily true.

Edit: I'm not saying that there should be a huge difference in how well you can perform across the board if you choose to melee instead of ranged DPS or something...but I think that people need to realize that their "fun" builds won't be the "best" builds and that there are specific combos that utilize mechanics better than other combos would. I don't think some of you realize how important the build combos will be. Things like light/heavy attacks and block/dodge/mitigation will be standardized between everyone without much difference...so, unless you suck at using these basic standard actions, or they fail horribly at getting them even close to balanced between class/weapon choices, then these aren't going to be what determines how good your character is. The 6 abilities we get along with what gear we have equipped is definitely THE deciding factor in how your character will perform at the task at hand.

And yes, obviously the skills will change a bit..like Weighted Shot will turn into Poison Arrow and then be able to get Weighted Shot VS more damage later..and the numbers will change a bit... but HOW the skills work isn't going to change much at this point.

Anyway, this is why I am focusing so hard right now on all the skills while others of you don't think that they matter at this point. It's just my opinion, so it's fine to disagree, I just felt the urge to explain myself...probably to justify all the time I spend on here to myself...rofl. XD

I'm too much of an optimist, they're going to fix it all! a lot of those old interviews did have negative feedback, but I've heard other quotes from people who played it then and now who say things like, "It felt like a whole new game." (paraphrased).

I wouldn't worry too much about it..even if it has issues at first then it'll be patched within a few months probably...hopefully. Since they're doing subscriptions I have even higher hopes for future fixes.

Deep Down has such a genius payment method... Pay-to-progress but free to start means that everyone will try it (and that's important because the market's so saturated) and then it gives me high-hopes because if they are confident that people will pay for it after playing it, it's probably a pretty good game! It looks great, too, they worked really hard on their revealed content and I think it's going to pay off. It's unheard of for a big-brand to do it like this.

You can tell a lot about a game by their payment methods. ZOS is obviously confident in ESO, giving the first month away for free. If ZOS had done what Capcom's doing with Deep Down then I would have even higher hopes, but it's hard to do that in an MMO...

idk, pure speculation, but I hear you--everything I've heard about anything related to ESO so far has made me more and more excited for it!

going from 750 resistance = 26% mitigation

 

to

 

7 pieces of light armor = 22.5% mitigation,

7 pieces of medium armor =  37.5% mitigation

and 

7 pieces of heavy armor = 49% mitigation 

 

 

...is a pretty huge assumption on your part

 

If you are the slightest insecure about the accuracy of your number then maybe you should at least round it to one significant number (like Light ~20%, Medium ~40% and heavy ~50%)

The only assumption I personally made was that armor rating and magic resistance would have the same coefficients. Nothing else came from me personally. I'm not insecure about the accuracy of my math either, but of course I'm healthily skeptical of the accuracy of the numbers I used within those equations. I stated this before, the numbers could all be wrong. But, at least I'm searching for conclusions. This conclusion is reasonable, otherwise I wouldn't have posted it.

I appreciate skepticism, and I'm glad that people are aware that these number's aren't set in stone. If you're trying to give an opinion then emotion with no logic, credit, and without presenting other options, doesn't make for a very strong opinion.

Yes Draconian, that is why I think armor will not mitigate spell damage. It never worked like this in any other elder scroll game (nor in most mmo's).

I also agree with musclemagic. We do not have much information at this point. To many people on this forum ask about "hard facts". Just read whole topic and see that this is all theory crafting mixed with specualtion. Reasons why this is better then waiting around for hard facts:

- This way people can share their ideas and maybe give others ideas about how the game could work ( I learned a few ways of how game mechanics could work, that I had not thought of myself).

- It keeps you busy. I, for instance, enjoy thinking about this game and theory crafting (even with uncertainties) is highly entertaining.

Yeah, I wish we had an answer to this (if armor = all damage). One support for it is that magic abilities can't be blocked, so blocking's for melee and resistances is for magic, but this creates some potential balancing issues for PVP vs PVE. I guess both ways creates balancing issues though... I wish beta would just go public already, but (as your expectancy vs reality thread suggests) it honestly must not be ready for public eyes yet.

Haha, exactly! I only do this for entertainment, as I'm sure we all do at this point. I spend so much time thinking about this crap, lmao, it's ridiculous given how much it's bound to change still.

I do plan on livestreaming though, so it might be an investment of time that pays off at least a little bit... of course I thought the same thing about Diablo 3 RMAH.. what a bust! XD

he just pulled them out of his behind. i have not seen anything that support his claim. building entire strategies around them numbers would be... waste.

The numbers were right here: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Argonian_Resistance  They're not there anymore, but I didn't just "pull it out of my behind."

As I already wrote: It read that 750 resistances was equal to 26% mitigation at clvl 50. The leap of faith that I made was that resistances and armor share the same coefficient. Either the numbers could be wrong straight up or it might not apply directly to armor rating, so yes, it might not be accurate.

But, the numbers seem pretty balanced, so I reckon it's not too far off--if it's wrong at all. Furthermore, nobody's going to build their entire strategy off of this. It just helps get an idea of armor-rating. When we have verified the actual armor-rating numbers, most builds won't change at all. The only way that builds would change based on new numbers is if ZOS has made it completely imbalanced--which I refuse to believe.

I've had disclaimers in my prior posts about this already, that it may be completely wrong. Thusly, your comment is nothing but an inconsequential piece of misguided self-ignorance. At least I'm trying to put two and two together to progress our idea-bank. There's been a lack of information lately, so you could at least respect my endeavors to find conclusions (that are easily justified). But, instead, you write shit about someone that you don't even know, based on nothing.

You might try a friendlier approach next time to state that you disagree, and then back it up with reasoning... If you are unable to see the benefit in this over things like, "I haven't seen it before! It's from his bumbum!!" then I'd suggest taking a few communication courses in argument building.

power attacks are when your target is already CC'd.

 

(like if you block HIS power attack to set him off balance, you follow up with a power attack of your own that he is unable to block since he is off balance... a power attack will exploit the off balance state and knock down the target- giving you even more time to possible charge up a second power attack that can't be blocked).

Yeah, I'm excited for an MMO where there's a lot of combat tactic. It's going to be bad ass.

At first it will be a cluster of getting out of CC, blocking their power attack (that can't be cancelled--but can it be aimed away right before it goes off to make someone waste a block? Juking in ESO = discovered?), and then returning with another power attack when they are off balance...or, it will just be a bunch of light attacks. Another way it could go is that people will really only use ranged power-attacks and then light attacks with melee. Either way, I think they'll end up buffing melee power attacks at some point because of this mechanic.

Edit: Nevermind, melee power attacks won't need a buff. I forgot that resistances would mitigate Destro staff(Making Mark Target into a probably very good spell for Destro users) damage.. and then as long as Bow's damage isn't as high as melee weapons, things should be pretty even.

I was playing PS4 today and I was like..jizzing so hard. Controller, graphics, speed... Perfect! I can't wait for Friday!

 

 

 

I also think comboing abilities like this will have a huge impact on pvp.

 

But about solar flare. People seem to forget it has a cast time. Casting can be very risky in pvp because of the melee bash interrupt that every player has, which means you get cc ed for a short period of time and this gives the enemy time to knock you down with a heavy attack.

That will not happen very often to good players, because they dont cast this when being attacked by a melee player, but there are also some ranged interupt spells that will stun you when interrupted.

 

Ok, i forgot about this. On Tamriel foundry it says the following:

While in active block mode, the player can shield (or weapon) bash by left clicking to interrupt enemy spell casting or to break free of crowd control effects.

This was also stated on ask us anything combat 2. I had completely forgotten about this. This makes cc effects so much less effective in pvp and it also makes stamina in pvp so much more important and it makes immovable less of a necessity.

 

I wish we had a number on how much breaking free costs, because it's probably not much cheaper than keeping Immovable up. With Immovable it means you can't be interrupted through incapacitates though too, so for casting builds it's even more worthwhile. The -

If you're using Flare in combat then you need to have that moment set up for sure, I think Spear Shards is the better choice for an actual DPS build on Templar.

At least you can move while casting in ESO, so if you take Volley and morph it to cause targets to be rooted then it will be a decent combo anyway. I know cast-times suck, but Healing Ritual as Templar is fine because of Rune Focus/Immovable and Flare in my build is fine because it won't be used in the $hits very often.

Anyway, when I initially asked, I really meant a build with Rune Focus + Flare on the same bar, it seems counter intuitive using something that reduces your damage with something that does damage... -25% to your Flare damage but then buffing the next attack by 40%? What do you guys think? Worth it, or do you think making a bar that uses both would ruin the rest of an otherwise functional build?

In short: Try to fit Flare on a cookie cutter Resto Staff bar without taking too much away from the build.. I don't like anything that I've been able to come up with so far but I was hoping someone else would be able to.

On second thoughts I think your bow bar (allthough not really important) can really have some changes. You really underestimate the damage of light and heavy attacks. Abilities without utility will be somewhat stronger then normal attacks, but you can only keep that up when you have a high amount of regen. Because you have so much regen with your passives on the resto bar you will not need that much regeneration echantments etc. Thats why I think its better to have 1 aoe ability and 1 single target ability and the rest utility abilities in pvp. You dont want to use all your stamina for single target and aoe. You want to be able to block, dodge, escape from cc (cost stamina) and sprint. 

Thats why i would say drop the arrow spray and drop the piercing javelin.

I see where you're coming from, but I don't want this bar to be functional for survival or sustained damage--I only want it for fast damage.

The way I see it, being able to dump all of both resources as quickly as possible into damage is the fastest way to deal burst damage. Do you see it differently?

With that in mind, would you still recommend any replacements? If so, which skills would you change?

Remember, I don't care about survival or sustained DPS, I just want to have maximum burst potential when damage is needed. I'll use the resto bar for surviving and helping the group survive when survival's needed. This whole build won't be for soloing except for very trashy mob grinding. YA FEEL ME BROTHA?! (Ahh... I'm hyper because I don't want to go to class.) XD

Have you ever played any of the other elder scrolls games? You can attack with a mouseclick (which is a normal attack) and you can hold the mouse button for an empowered attack. In ESO these are called light attacks and heavy attacks. With every weapon you can do these charged/heavy attacks.

 

Edit: I found this on tamriel foundry --> Blocking an enemy’s power attack will stagger the foe for a brief time. This was said in the context of a pve situation, but I think it also counts for pvp. So heavy attacks do more damages, but you charge them giving your opponent a time to react (this can really backfire in pvp). Both types of attack do not cost stamina.

But, Blocking does consume stamina. Just a side-note.

Those changes are definitely an improvement. I like the mage light on the bow bar. But I am a big fan of blessing of protection. I would have kept the siege shield on the bow bar instead of piercing javelin. I do not think you need the extra regeneration.

Why do you take piercing javelin over scatter shot? Mainly because of the the resource type (M instead of S)? Or because it is more damage. Because I think for single target damage poison arrow will do more. That means that scattershot has the same effect + a 5 seconds disorient.

Yeah, I love these new changes! (They're thanks to you btw, ) I really like Siege Shield on Resto. I think that in Cyrodiil ranged mitigation will be more important than close-quarters, so the 20% ranged/siege protection is nice on Siege Shield, but the passive MP regen is a huge amount as well. It had to replace either BoP, Immovable, or Rune Protection, so there was really no other choice besides BoP.

idk, I might not need the extra regen, but if I'm using Rushed Ceremony instead of Healing Ritual then I'm pretty sure that in some battles that extra MP will save us.

Yeah, haha, I chose the bow bar for spammable damage output with both MP+ST for both Single+AOE damage only:

Single Target Spammable--  MP-Javelin, ST-Poison Arrow

AOE Spammable-- MP-Flare, ST-Spray

I really want 1 of each type, (AOE-ST, AOE-MP, Single-ST, Single-MP) and I really want them each to be spammable. Getting the biggest burst of damage in the shortest amount of time is my goal.

While still following those guidelines, do you see anything I could change? (I want them all to have some ranged, too.)

This leaves the build with 1 extra slot:

In PvP I think Magelight will be nice to have around, and the +7% crit chance and -5%MP will improve my burst.

In PVE I'm thinking Aura because it benefits the group more here, where Magelight is probably more beneficial in PVP.

Right now it's a decent build for clearing Trash in PVE while soloing. Either I can kite a single target just from using Javelin over and over (maybe with a Spray once in a while for -50% speed) or I might be able to even kite a small group with -50% speed on Spray and then spamming Flare while they're slowed..they'd have to be a pretty easy group though if kiting's possible with just -50% speed on them...

The ST regen from Aura will allow me to sprint further too, if I'm behind my group in a dungeon or just want to get somewhere quicker and can't get on my horse, especially when I activate it I should at least be able to sprint for a long ways.

I'm almost thinking that I like having Aura out so much that I want it out all the time now... Haha XD

In PvP I'd switch to Resto Bar as soon as there's a fight anyway. I just hope that a NB and a Sorc wouldn't be able to burst me down so fast that I couldn't switch to Resto and buff up.. With all the +MP stuff on this build I'm going to be built with over 60% of stats into Health, so I don't think I'll be that burstable.

Thoughts?

I was on my phone when I thought of these swaps. I meant Arrow Spray, not Scatter Shot. I'd like to get your guys opinion on these bars compared to the bars from 2 posts ago:

Breton Templar - 5 Light 2 Heavy (Enough MP to be stable in PVP and then all Power Enchants), Resto (Power), Bow (Power)

Resto-

Rune Focus

Immovable

Rushed Ceremony

Purge (Cleansing Ritual-PVE)

Siege Shield (Entropy-PVE)

Bow-

Magelight (Restoring Aura-PVE)

Piercing Javelin

Poison Arrow

Solar Flare

Arrow Spray

Ult- Barrier (Nova-PVE)

Resto bar with Siege Shield, Purge and Barrier will have a lot of extra MP regeneration. Hopefully just enough ST to keep Immovable up a lot. But, with all that MP regen, keeping Rune Focus up shouldn't be a burden at all.. Meaning that not only will I have consistent good mitigation but I'll have plenty of MP for spamming Rushed Ceremony rather than having to rely on Healing Ritual. When a situation calls for it, having Purge and Siege Shield are also very handy so it's not like it's a waste to take them.

The bow bar is only to help burst down mobs when DPS is more important than healing. If it's a single target, spam Piercing Javelin/Poison Arrow until out of resources. If it's a group of enemies then spam Solar Flare and Arrow Spray until out of resources.

I'd walk around with Bow bar out for Magelight and being able to burst things down possibly, but remember that your strength is in your Resto bar.

I've tried making changes to the leveling bars as well, but I can't seem to improve on it without making leveling go slower.

It's relative simple first most games use a degressive system when it comes to stats.

Secondly 26/750 = 0.03466666 a number like that wouldn't be choosen if you have a linear system, their you would either use 3% per 100 points or so.

Most likely you will start somewhere around 5% per 100 points and ones you hit a certain cap it will be degressive.

 

The reason why many games use a system like that is, that with such a system they are able to prevent extrem builds.

It could just go down an odd x.x% per stat point per level, like in every game, and that's just what it ended up being at. Or, it could be that it adds up to 29 armor = 1% but the left-over is cancelled so the tooltip just reads 26% rather than 26.56 or w/e.

There are a lot of other reasons it could be an odd %.

But, I think you're correct. There could definitely be soft caps like in most other games. Their system sucks pretty bad if there's a soft cap before 25% mitigation so let's just hope it's ~25% (~720 armor= 1% every 29 points...but the last 1% would be 30 armor?)

Meh.. idk, but I hope it is at least close to those numbers I calculated. If it is on a down slope then Heavy Armor would be even worse and I hope it's not the case.

I hope there are no soft caps or caps at all, and they just balance it well without. I think it's possible, given the limited amount of Enchantment options and the Give/Take relationship everything has in this game.

Depends if you are on skype with your teammates or not. Serious PVPers will play with coordinated groups. I want to join a serious PVP guild right before launch. But then I will defnitely start using those combos with my (5? man) squad.

I'm thinking of running a group of 8, it seems like the best number for efficiency without too much overlap. 2 of each class.

Yeah, that's what I'm so stoked about on PS4- super easy voice chat with any random. Going to be epic to have this as a healer.

It would be pretty cool to set these things up...your NB has 300 Ult and Death Stroke... Solar Flare an unsuspecting chump and watch them get to 50% in one hit and then be unable to heal because -75% healing, haha

Very solid build. I have not thought much about Templars, but after looking at all their skills it seems like their 3 skill lines are very distinct and do not interact much. There are some combinations possible, but not as much compared to mage or nightblade.

 

You might wanna consider changing the cleansing ritual for purge if the radius of rune focus is about 12 yards too (for the 100% more healing). because purge gives you another 10% mana regen, and besides cleansing (a player that is cc ed for 14 second cannot remove the cc with the synergy of cleansing ritual) it also reduces the duration of negative effects on nearby allies by 50% for 5 seconds.

The other thing is, I dont really think that the entropy is a good pick. You allready have alot of heals on your other bar. You might want a defensive ability like scatter shot on your bow bar.

 

But I think this is a really strong build. I dont think there is a better healer build possible (op templars)

I really really like Backlash, but yeah, they're kind of just wonky abilities in tier 3, haha

Great call mate, if I am using Rune Focus enough to get the +100% buff then Purge is probably the better choice.

The thing about this build is that I only plan on using it in group settings, so if someone's on me I have no problem getting out the Resto Bar because we can always benefit from it. Entropy might not be that strong, but I think the accumulation of it's effects is worth taking: the small MP. The small DoT. The small +damage on next attack. If I time it right with Solar Flare spamming then I think my calculations show I can cast it infinitely. More sustained, and then if I don't want sustained I just don't need to cast Entropy and I can spam Flares for burst. Single Targets I'd rather throw on Entropy and Sun Fire then drain ST with Poison Arrow and swap over and let me group handle the killing from there on..or just survive if it's 1v1. Haha, I like pissing people off and I don't think anyone will be able to take down that Resto bar in solo very easily.

Eventhough I am all about PVP, I do love the skyrim feel of elder scrolls, and might just enjoy the leveling experience. I think i'll use whatever ability to unluck summon shade, and then use summon shade untill I unlock everything.

(maybe ill do some lv 10 PVP and use shadow cloak + veiled strike)

 

Edit: Are you sure armor protects again magic damage?!?!

Ah, I'm just going to use the first 3 abilities from each class tree on the most fitting bar I can put them. I just want to get leveling over with as fast as I can. Check out my new post on the Temp thread.

Not sure of anything, but that's the word on the street.

750 = 26% would mean that armor and resistances are degressive

Why? That #'s for lvl 50.

I fcuked up a lot of concepts in the OP. I'm also using the new skill sheet, so my ideas changed a bit. Here's an update on what I plan on playing:

Breton Templar - 5 light 2 heavy (mp & power), Resto (power), Bow (fire- I think Fire's more damage, Shock will take away MP, Frost will slow. I just want extra damage, but power might actually be better in this case as well.)

Resto-

Immovable

Rune Focus

Blessing of Protection

Cleansing Ritual (Purge, if Rune Focus gives the +100% to Healing Ritual)

Healing Ritual

Bow-

Siege Shield

Poison Arrow

Sun Fire

Entropy

Solar Flare

Ult- Barrier

Bow bar:

Keep Siege Shield up to help out group and self from taking as much damage. Against other groups, Entropy --> Solar Flare over and over. Against single targets, Entropy -> Sun Fire then Poison Arrow spam until you're out of Stamina.

Barrier and Siege Shield on bar gives +20% mp regen, with Entropy there as well and being in Light Armor as a Breton you shouldn't have too much MP issues while spamming damage (either single-target or group).

If at any time you come into melee ranged with enemies, switch to your Resto bar.

Resto Bar:

Keep Blessing of Protection on your allies every 8 seconds, instruct everyone who wants healing to stay within 12m. Cleansing Ritual should be up every 12s so that allies can activate it to remove debuffs.

Apart from this, spam Healing Ritual. It's +100% healing because the people withing 12m radius are effected by Cleansing Ritual, this (and the other passive that reduces MP for Healing Ritual) is why Healing Ritual > Rushed Ceremony. Healing Ritual is 12m radius as well, meaning it always gets the 100% if Cleansing Ritual's up.

When needed, use Rune Focus to keep from being interrupted. And use Immovable as often as ST allows to keep from being CC'd or pulled away from group.

Even as Breton with Light armor and +10% from having Barrier, MP will be an issue with this build, so play conservatively.

Ultimate:

Barrier is just amazing, fitting in your role nicely for sticky situations. It lasts a long time, effects a lot of people, and absorbs a good amount of damage. It also gives you +10% MP regen.

Although, if we can use 2 Ults, then I'd use Soul Strike on the bow bar and Nova on the resto bar because they're more appropriate for each bar specifically.

While leveling: 5 heavy 2 light, MP enchanted.

Resto-

Puncturing Strikes

Healing Ritual

Cleansing Ritual

Focused Charge

Backlash

Bow-

Rushed Ceremony

Sun Fire

Piecing Javeling

Solar Flare

Poison Arrow

Ult- Radial Sweep

The reason I use 5 heavy while leveling is because I need to level up the passives for Heavy Armor. This build also uses 3 from each Templar tree, for even leveling + the Ult from Aedric Spear just to level it up quickly. Once I unlock the passives needed from each of the trees then I'll be able to use the final build.. unless the PvP trees require usage for leveling rather than just PvP combat. In which case I'd have to make a grinding build that has all 4 of them in it.

Marked target says: "Your attacks ignore all of the target's resistances, but their attacks ignore all of your resistances". In most games armor is physical resistance. I hope this is the case. I originally had marked target on the bow bar, but it might replace haste, or I might even use both if aoe isnt that usefull in PVP. 

 

The newer spreadsheat that was link in the where do you get your info from section did give me some insights. Arrow spray seems stronger since there it states it is 20 y range instead of 12. It also showed the poison arrow change. That seems like a usefull single target damage ability (I would use the 250% damage increase, because almost every spell is instant). At least this answers you question about the early game build (poison arrow instead of immovable or something). But remember, early game doesnt mean anything its all about the lv 50 end game.

Also it states that evasion is 25% dodge now, and blur 22% miss. So I realy think blur will be better and that it works against something extra compared to evasion.

And it states that the breton ult " dragonskin"  works only against magic damage (it is a huge amount though) and only stays for 3 seconds. In that case I might use soul tear on the Bow bar, if mages seem to not be a weakness to the bow build. 

Edit: Soul Strike, not Soul tear. And it increases damage to chilled targets. Making this a good combo with the frost enchant on the bow.

 

I do agree that if marked target is only magic resistances I wouldnt use it. Now, I think I might even replace Assasins blade if the combo of TP strike + deathstroke + flurry + blade doesnt kill someone). So thanks for the tip. 

 

If buffs like blur or evation stay and marked target stay when switching bars, then that would be even more epic for this build, because it opens up more slots.

Yeah, I really hope that things stay when bars are swapped. I think they will, it's what the OP bars are entirely based on.

Armor in ESO is mitigation of all incoming damage, not just physical. Resistances are separate things, so unless the tooltip is just worded poorly then it probably won't apply to armor rating. Too early to rule anything out though.

This new spreadsheet is making some major changes for me as well.

I meant early-game for what you're going to use from the early skills in the trees, in order to reach the end-game things in those trees. Leveling up you're going to use things you have access to while keeping it spread between the 3 class trees mostly. I just want to get an idea of what you're planning, since level 50's hopefully at least a few weeks of gameplay away.

Blur and Evasion are weird. I thought that Miss chance would be something that applied to the enemy so that it helps everyone in the group, like Ash Field would..so having it on yourself, I don't see a distinction between Dodge and Miss on yourself only.

I think taking both of them will be pretty sweet for NB though, especially if you can keep them applied through Bar#2 like in the OP. One's ST and one's MP so it's almost a perfect balance when you use both.

I have a question. Most healing abilities are "on lowest health ally in front of you" or "Heal nearby wounded ally". So how do you heal yourself? Maybe heal a nearby wounded ally also counts for yourself, but what about "in front of you"?

Yeah, Steadfast Ward bothers me because I don't know if it effects yourself.. I think normally a wounded ally includes yourself, but for "in front of you"... idk, but I hope it includes yourself. I reckon it does.

I would wait for someone to actually answer, but we had a similar conversation a while back and I don't think anyone knew at that time either.

Random thoughts: How viable do you guys think setting up combos with people is? Molten Weapons, Puncture, Fiery Reach (with +40% weapon power morph) to pre-game... 

Let a Templar use Solar Flare, then Dragon Leap = dmg luls. Combining Solar Flare with things like Death Stroke and Dragon Leap has huge potential, even Uppercut and Solar Flare spamming is crazy to think about.

My question is how viable you guys think combos like that will be? I mean, obviously a sorc with a DK will want to use Weakness to Elements and such..but what about things that require a lot of coordination? Going to be a lot of it at endgame or probably not?

But does it only stun when you interrupt something? They way its phrased makes you think it stuns always (compare it to force shock of destruction tree). But that doesnt make sense, since a stun interrupts automatically.

My guess is it only stuns if you interrupt.

Musclemagic asked me for my nightblade build. I know that options on certain abilities differ. But that happens when we dont have all the information. Builds will change when the game is released. As for now, I do agree with musclemagic that its good to have mostly buff abilities or situational abilities in your build and one bread and butter damage skill.

 

This is a nightblade build is something made mainly for AvA battles. The Idea behind this is fight at the backline of a small group in order to take hold of structures and important objectives in cyrodil.

Depending on the faction that I will play, I have two options:

Nightblade – Kahjit – 5 medium armor, 2 heavy armor, 30% MP, 50% stam, 20% health (Khajit passive to increase 10% critt damage helps + 20% increased critt from nightblade tree. this build will focus on critt + 5% critt bow passive + 6% increased critt rating passive from assassination tree)

 

Main bar – Bow

Consuming Darkness Ultimate  (escape ability + option to swap to 2^nd bar and kill counters of the bow bar)

Blur (or evasion) - M    (Protection against both ranged and melee)

Haste - M  (attack speed increase)

Aspect of Terror - M   (2 target fear, good when jumped by melees)

Arrow spray/volley - S     (aoe damage + 50% 5 s slow, or long ranged aoe ability)

Immovable - S    (invulnerable to cc and 20% damage reduction)

 

Also the itemization will focus on critt. I think normal or empowered attacks are a very important source of damage, and in most cases the main source (unless you have really high regeneration). From a distance, bow users will be able to repeatedly normal attack without being under pressure. Haste will be a major damage increase. With this build you do not need much regen, and can focus on power. If untargeted, arrow spray or volley will help with aoe, if this is needed.

The kiting comes from aspect of terror in combination with a dodge roll (and passive to get 70% movement speed for 2 s)  plus combination with immovable if needed. Then after the roll, arrow spray can be cast to do damage and slow the targets again . I think that aspect of terror will be more than a 2.75 second fear for two targets, because abilities level up. Since this ability does no damage, the fear duration must increase on level up making it a perfect ability to get at a distance again. Also the bow will be enchanted with a frost enchant.

The advantage of this build are:

-   You don’t need much stamina for abilities, which means more dodge rolls or constant immovable

-   You can kite multiple people

-   Lots of damage if untargeted

 

Secondary bar – Dual wield daggers

Death stroke - Ultimate (high single target damage, anti healer)

Mark target - M    (Tank destroy ability)

Assassins blade - M (finisher)

Teleport Strike - M (Gap closer)

Flurry - S (High damage ability)

Immovable - S  (unkitable)

 

Khajist is just too good for this second bar. The secondary bar is just high damage and chasing potential vs targets that would be the weakness of the bow bar. This bar will only be needed if you are up against a high burst mage, or a tank. The mark target will be very important to take down tanks. If it is a high damage reduction tank, it will not do much damage, meaning that you will kill him very quickly while he will not kill you very fast and won’t be able to cc you because of immovable.

Against mages it’s just teleport strike + Flurry + death stroke + assassins blade = dead in 4 seconds, then swap to bow again.

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The second build is better, I think, since it increases the survival against Mages. It is overall more defensive.

Nightblade – Breton – 2 medium armor, 5 heavy armor, 50% MP, 30% Stam, 20% HP (The Breton class is very nice against spells because of his ultimate, passive spell resistance and extra magicka, which helps for the Mage bar and also makes hunter abilities cheaper)

 

Main bar – Bow

Dragon skin - Ultimate   (increase survivability)

Blur (or evasion) - M   (Protection against both ranged and melee)

Haste - M      (attack speed increase)

Aspect of Terror - M (2 targets feared, good when jumped by melees)

Arrow spray/volley - S (aoe damage + 50% 5 s slow, or long ranged aoe ability)

Immovable - S  (invulnerable to cc and 20% damage reduction)

 

Second bar -  Resto staff

Barrier – Ultimate  (good pvp aoe shield)

Immovable - S (invulnerable to cc and 20% damage reduction)

Evasion  - M   (Protection against both ranged attacks and melee attacks)

Blessing of Protection - M   (Good aoe instant heal + a lot of extra resistances)

Cripple (or agony)– M    (kite ability + 8% max magicka from siphoning passive)

Regeneration – M  (Heal + Hot)

 

So this build, is almost the same for bow. Except that it’s better against mages. And the second bar can be used to bring support and healing to your frontline if needed, while also being able to kite. You will be more tanky overall with 5 pieces of heavy armor and the ability to selfheal.

Ahaa, okay, I see exactly where you're coming from! I like it, and I love that you use Aspect of Terror because I think there's going to be a pretty wicked morph for it. XD

I just don't think that Mark Target will help against armor. I think it's strictly a Magic Resistance remover. If this is the case, then I think replacing Mark+Blade with Haste+Siphoning Strikes would be better. But, if you're right that Mark Target removes armor then this would be epic.

I like your 2nd build a lot. I'd actually take Mark Target instead of Haste on your Bow bar for your Breton build if Mark is anti-armor, I think it'd give you more damage where you need it-against heavy users. Well, maybe even then Haste might be better against more people.

Anyway, I think I can see how you play and I like it. I'm looking forward to seeing a more final build from you when we're closer to release date.

Edit: Leveling up for Terror and such will take a while. Any plans for an early-game build?