Musclemagic

Ahh, hmm, it was confusing looking in videos, it looked like just be melee that heals. This makes more sense though.

Templar has the same passive for spell resistance, temp also can use Immovable and Rune Focus, and the same heavy armor passive applies. Even that's not enough on it's own to counter magic damage. I'd definitely take a few magic resistance enchants at least... but that would hurt your DPS, since you for some odd reason want to be a DPS in heavy armor. On top of all that, I'm taking Defensive Posture for the spell-reflection (not for the reduction); the reduction in cost and the increase in block is very minor, but having this type of stamina-based spell protection is huge for survival. Your armor rating will be plenty in heavy, especially with a shield, for physical mitigation. But your magic resistance is much lower than your armor--meaning you need to boost it somehow or you'll be just about as vulnerable to magic attacks as someone in light armor--more in your case, because you don't have any mitigation on your S&S bar. I don't believe that miss chance will affect beneficial spells..but maybe. DK Standard's really really good, but it's either that or Magma Armor on MY AOE bar (I said it was only different because it was different than your original bar).. DK Standard has no place in a single-target bar. Dragon Leap's not another charge, and it's perfect for a secondary bar--it can go on top of walls, knocking people off of walls--probably the best PVP ultimate in the game IMO, especially for the 2H(2ndary in my build) bar which is single-target (and it knocks back the other targets, which is awesome for the singling out someone.) You simply won't have enough MP to do what you're thinking with Ash/Talons at the same time as Gripping back the people who escape. I guess you could get rid of Inhale and it would be good though--that's probably a better choice. Now that I think I understand more where you're coming from (I didn't realize you wanted to main 2H--which I think is unreasonable with all Heavy armor because you'll just get raped by mages even harder while trying to enchant for DPS instead of survival enchants..might as well wear medium and actually do good damage [with just about the same amount of magic resistance as how you had your S&S bar.]) Although I disagree with wearing heavy and trying to focus on DPS over survival, I think your 2H bar is perfect. I do however think your S&S bar is majorly flawed in two ways; 1) No ranged magic mitigation. 2) Terribly MP dependent. Here's what I'd do to change it: 2H- I think this bar's as good as it can get for your desires. Critical Charge Reverse Slash Obsidian Shield Momentum Immovable *Magma Armor S&S- Hopefully you see where I'm coming from, and see how this setup achieves the goal of this bar a lot better. Ash Cloud Fiery Grip - Between Ash and Grip you won't have extra MP to do much else, you'll have to be okay with keeping people close by chaining Grips into your slow. Defensive Posture Immovable Molten Weapons - Keeping this up won't be MP intensive. If this wasn't your 2ndary bar I'd put this on 2H bar instead of Immovable(since it's a 2ndary that focuses on DPS rather than survival) and I'd put Puncture here to help you eventually take down your targets with this bar... but since this isn't your main bar, and you're not building your character around survival, molten weapons has no room on the 2H bar (as you were aware already). *DK Standard Of course, you'll probably disagree and say that since your S&S bar is secondary it doesn't need to be balanced as long as you can achieve the short-term goal that you want to achieve before switching back to 2H. But then it seems like a waste to go Heavy to begin with, since you really will take about the same amount of damage from magic (due to enchants and everything else)--yet you'll have less health than a medium user because you're putting so many points in St in order to try to DPS better... While you gain 14% health regen, you lose 14% st regen and the lower damage you do makes you forced to use even more St for damage and use more enchants for power and St regen to counter....it's just..not worth it to go Heavy if you want to DPS. Sure, you'll beat other melees fairly easy--but is it worth it considering that most the damage in the game is spell damage?? I sincerely hope you have thought long and hard about this choice before dedicating yourself to getting lvl 50 with that high of St and using all your time on Heavy Armor..

It's pretty much the 2 bars I was going for on my Templar build with 7 Heavy. It's hard to overcome magic damage in Heavy. My temp build's using either puncture/low slash, but I think instead of LS or Puncture that Defensive Posture's better--just for survival against the magic damage and then taking Inhale instead of Molten Weapons on S&S bar, but I'd put Molten on bar#1 instead of Immovable. Hmmm..S&S bar's too MP based, too. So, I'd personally change it a tad to this, but it's pretty much the same concepts still: S&S- AOE Survival/Control Fiery Grip Defensive Posture Dark Talons Ash Cloud Immovable *Magma Armor 2H- Single DPS/Support Critical Charge Reverse Slash Obsidian Shield Momentum Molten Weapons *Dragon Leap - Fits better with the single-target concept that my changes were going for. Extra mobility's always awesome to have around as well. It's nice that Obsidian Shield and Reverse Slash are spammable so you can either shit on people quickly or support the group pretty well while you guys are just trying to run through an entrance that's being AOE'd. Like I said though, it's almost the same. I think all your changes with the ability changes were good choices.

Very viable. On a sorce you can do this and it's just as good as MP--either way you're going to be using Dark Exchange as a healer, so it doesn't matter whether you're using high amounts of MP regen or ST regen, it amounts to the same...but St regen actually heals you as well with Dark Exchange, and MP regen saves you a bit more time because you won't have to cast DE quite as often (~20% less or w/e). Breton's a good choice. Something like: Breton - 7/7 medium (it also increases the damage and atk speed of your resto staff because it's melee weapon) - Resto/Bow Resto- DE Lightning Form Regen BOP Ward *Negate Bow- Familiar Twilight Surge Poison Arrow Volley *Atronarch You'll take a lot of magic damage, and you don't have much for control, but I think it will still work out nicely.

That day.... o_O He started it!!! Hahaha! For real though, I like irons's builds. I think we both have pretty much the same ideas toward things, and we're able to look past the small differences in our ideas.. it was just a weird night that night. XD I'd like to see your build ideas too, since I've been making templar weapon-dmg builds I want to see how they compare.

Yeah, I think a bow bar would do better than a 2H bar against most groups of opponents--but it doesn't work as well with Heavy Armor. I'm trying to make a medium armor build with S&S/Bow but the S&S bar just doesn't put out enough DPS to sacrifice all the survival from heavy... I'm having trouble making any medium armor with much survival though.. It would be fine if you were okay sacrificing survival for more DPS, maybe do 2H/Bow in medium armor? Good physical damage. Bow to kite melees, 2H to kill casters, bow to sit back and DPS in group PVP--like you said, almost necessary option in pvp battles unless you want to go all-out-tanky. Just messing around more with the Heavy Templar build: Orc, Templar, 7 Heavy, S&S/2H S&S- To survive when you have a healer and to fight melee ranged opponents when solo - when they run switch to Bar#2 to finish them off. Restoring Aura Rune Focus Immovable Puncture -40% armor Low Slash -15% weapon dmg and good snare *Radial Sweep 2H- To finish off opponents, kill casters (light-armor users), gap-close, and/or to Restoring Aura Eclipse Critical Charge Uppercut Reverse Slash *War Horn It's still not right... bleh... I sit here for hours just trying to decide on each initial spell choice and it's not coming together very well... Name: Professor Snipe Redguard Templar 7/7 Medium 2H/Bow 2H- Multi-Target/Close-Up DPS - Power Enchant Restoring Aura Critical Charge Sun Shield Cleave Reverse Slash *Radial Sweep Bow- Single Target/Ranged DPS - Frost Enchant Restoring Aura Eclipse Snipe Poison Arrow Scatter Shot *Soul Strike Critical Charge into a group of people, following with Sun Shield and Cleave with Brawler morph. You'll be able to use Sun Shield one more time before you're OOM. Single 1 target out and whack him until you feel like you can finish it by spamming reverse slash. Or, just sit back and Snipe a single-target from across the map.. 40m is really far away, look at how big 20m is when the other bow-user is using Arrow Spray and how big 5M is with Volley.. It's not quite as far as it would be in real life, but it's a pretty good distance! It will be fun to kill runners with Snipe. I think that this is the best Bow DPS build for single targets. Restoring Aura + Redguard + Medium Armor = Snipe all day. I also think that the 2H bar is a fucking awesome kamikaze build, lol. If you want to survive and still AOE DPS, just put Volley on your Bow bar and spam that all over instead, and then make a S&S bar#1 for survival--but it won't be as good and the S&S bar isn't that good in Medium armor. MEERRRR... We'll see, everything'll change when the game's out. EDIT: Forgot the 2nd part of your post-- I'll be playing on PC until beta's out on PS4 and then I'll be PS4 only. I've moved from AUS, I'm back in the states now, so it'll be a US guild.

The way I see it, this is how the average of these classes will be played: DK = Control Temp = Healing Sorce = Ranged DPS NB = Melee-Ranged DPS So, I agree what you said about healing, ranged DPS, and control being the most important.. but I don't see how that makes AD good? If TF numbers are at all accurate, AD will only have ~10% DK and ~18% Temp. There's no way they'll progress in content as quickly, meaning their majority will lack gear. Not only that, but I firmly believe that DK and Sorc are crucial and NB are near worthless for PvP campaigns when actually trying to capture or hold a keep (like you said, mass pvp). On top of this, the more Temp healers -- the merrier. AD has almost 50% of their predicted population as NB. They have the most Sorc, but with that low of DK/Templar that population still won't be able to do much because they'll die too quickly to the over-abundance of NBs that can kill them without DK and Temps there to support the Sorces. Yes, EP might have a tiny bit more DK (~2% more according to their numbers) but they have a lot less Temps than DC, so they'll still fall in comparison to DC...especially considering how many more NB they have and how many less Temp. I think EP will be a fairly close 2nd in PVP, but they too will suffer from slower dungeon progression. DC might have a lower amount of Sorces, but not a huge difference--it's still balanced enough (and low enough in NBs) to be the obvious winner in my eyes.

DC has the most interest in DKs and Templars (by a pretty huge difference) and the least interest in NB. Also the least interest in Sorces, which is a bummer, but I firmly believe that the more DKs and Templars there are in both PVE and PVP...yeah, the battles are already decided IMO. DC > all just based off the class-interest #'s, let alone the racials or anything else.

Less damage in heavy, but if you're okay with that then good! I wish more people wanted to use heavy, this is why I'm going Daggerfall. The reason why I recommended medium/heavy first is because you want to be good at soloing--all heavy armor builds will rely on groups to really shine in any one situation. This build is basically like the 2nd build I posted above, I've just thought on it a bit more: Breton - 7 Heavy+1 Shield, S&S/2H, mostly HP stat while leveling, %HP regen and flat ST regen enchants. Lifesteal on 1h, mRes on shield, power on 2H (I would say fire, but against casters I think the power will be better). S&S- Tank like a porn star Restoring Aura - M Rune Focus - M Shield Charge - S Defensive Posture - S Immovable - S *Nova - U 2H- Kill Casters Restoring Aura - M Eclipse - M Critical Charge - S Uppercut - S Reverse Slash - S *War Horn - U You should still have plenty of Stamina to block with even with Immovable up, and using Shield Charge to mess with people. If melee damage adds up for you on your S&S bar, you should maybe take an Aedric Spear ability so you can block 15-16% more melee damage, but I can't imagine that it'll be an issue to begin with..and I don't know what to exchange without ruining the bar's balance. *Nova on bar 1's good because not only does it help you survive but if there's a big group you can help do a massive amount of damage at once. I chose War Horn because this bar is really for killing casters, so you'll want to be able to do a couple Eclipses into a couple of the Charge -> Uppercut combos and still be able to finish them with Reverse Slashes..since you're in heavy, you probably won't have enough resources for this regularly. But, I think anyone in light armor will die super quick here, even though you're in heavy armor. Other than this you'll use the S&S bar to deal with melee users and deal with groups by simply not dying. I think Templar's a really good choice for this, even if you are only using 3 of their abilities. Templar's passives and Restoring Aura work really well for a heavy armor person who also wants to be able to DPS. Everything seems to synergize pretty nicely with this build. If you don't like Uppercut and Reverse Slash, you could always replace those with like.. Immovable and Momentum. Or, just replace Uppercut with Momentum if you don't like the way Uppercut works... I'm kind of iffy on it myself. I tried to make this build pretty efficient and well-rounded for both survival/DPS and MP/St, so I think you'd actually be able to put a lot of your points while leveling into HP (most Heavy users will have to take a lot of MP+St. Hmmm, I always go back and try to change things--and usually there are things I want to change, but I think for the purposes of either surviving or doing as much DPS as you can with Heavy Armor, this is just an all-around solid build that doesn't need anything else.

If DC's going to be the underdog... Maybe that's why they gave them such epic racials. XD

Do you know what you want to focus on more--Tank or DPS? Are you set on Breton or do you just want to be in the Daggerfall alliance? As a tankish/melee-range DPS I'd suggest Redguard instead. It's the same alliance so it wouldn't change anything for you at all. I know you plan on being solo, but you might find that you're in groups a lot anyway.. It's easier as a NB to do this build because of their ability to stunlock, but it might work like this pretty well: Redguard Templar, 5 Medium 2 Heavy, DW+Bow, I'd go high HP with some St without putting any in MP. DW- Restoring Aura Evasion Immovable Puncturing Strikes Whirlwind *War Horn Bow- Restoring Aura If you want more of a tankish templar, this would be better, but it's more for groups where there are heals going off around you and other people to DPS for you: Orc- 7(8 with shield) heavy, S&S + 2H S&S- weak VS spell damage -Sun Shield or Blinding Light -- depending on if you're in a group or not. Blinding Light would be really good combined with Defensive Posture, people would be going off-balance all the time VS you so they'd be vulnerable to power attacks. Sun Shield would be good just for your own survival, but this build relies on group members to work well already so I'd really recommend just using Blinding Light right here. -Shield Charge -Immovable -Rune Focus -Defensive Posture 2H- C-C-C-Combo! Caster killer combo. -Eclipse - Cast 1st -Backlash - They can't interrupt this because of eclipse- the interrupts are all single-target, but Hidden Blade and Poison Arrow would work since they're not "spells" I don't think, but since this is a caster-killer bar I don't think you'd be using it against someone with Bow or DW anyway. -Critical Charge - They can't keep you out of the 22m range because they're using an AOE (can't single target CC because of Eclipse) CC over 22m away, but I think the only ones that can do this is are Volley (morphed for a root) and Spear Shards. -Uppercut - Again, can't interrupt. -Reverse Slash - They're stunned right now, so do a couple power attacks and then finish them with a Reverse Slash. Whatever health they have left, Backlash will take care of it. They could always CC you with a PBAOE once you crit-charge, since there's a 1-sec opening--but I doubt that most people will be able to, especially if you factor in server latency, there's pretty much no way to respond to this attack. I think it will do at least 60% of the average light-armor person's health. Sorry, as much as I want to work on the bow bar and such--I have to leave this unfinished, I'm falling asleep. Let me know what you're thinking and I can clean things up more tomorrow to give you clearer ideas.

If you are on the fence we can help you decide; What's something you can't live without? Armor and weapon types you're thinking about, ranged or close, PVE or PVP focus and what role you want to play in PVE or PVP--either personal survival, group support, raw killing power, etc--please be specific with this. Honestly, once you can answer those questions, it will be easy to choose the best race/class/weapon/armor.

The problem's pretty simple: No matter what class you choose, you won't be able to survive up-close in cloth unless you're stealth based for 1v1 fights only. As a Templar caster, in cloth, you'd want to stay in the back -- at least you can heal. As a NB DPS in cloth, you're best off being Destro w/ ranged and you'll still be able to heal with drains. As a Sorce in light armor you'll want to have your pets tank for you in PVE and in PVP you have a lot of ways to stay out of the fray. On the other hand, as a DK in light armor you'll be useless unless you're in the fray, where you can tank some--sure--just like a Templar or a NB can tank/heal somewhat. But the difference is that they'd do something like Aspect of Terror --> Cripple to keep someone further away, while you'll be forced to keep them within your range and just keep on tanking. In groups there will be DK and NB up front who are holding people where they're at and either tanking or stealthing.. don't you think that if you are there, in the front, with light armor on..you'll just get picked off in a heartbeat? You have no escape abilities unless you count Dark Talons or Stonefist, but then you still wouldn't be able to DPS them at the same time. Maybe you'd be able to keep people further than melee range, and up to 8m away, enabling you to Dark Talons-Dragon Breath-Lava Whip and keep doing Destro-staff attacks at the same time. I'd also keep Spiked Armor and Obsidian Shield on your bar. This gives you no chasing power, finishing power, or escaping power like you get with NB and Sorce, but you do probably have plenty enough protection from casters due to both Light Armor and Scaled Armor. So all you need to really worry about is melee, and hopefully you have somewhat enough for physical damage through Spiked and Obsidian. Spiked wouldn't be enough on it's own, otherwise taking Fiery Grip instead of Obsidian would be nice, it would just make it so you need to Dark Talons sooner though. It might be tricky to play this build, having to keep guys so close yet off of you... but I think it might be able to work at least somewhat if you really want it to. The only difference between this and sorce though is that you have to be a bit closer and you don't have as much killing or surviving power when the time needs. I'd also make your 2nd bar a far-ranged bar with just survival DK abilities and then Destro Staff abilities.. You also should really find a way to use Reflective Scale with this bar, because with your short-range bar the long-ranged casters will just eat you alive in caster vs caster where you don't have a random melee in the middle to beat up--who also has to have no gap-closer or CC of their own (which are cheaper than either of yours--meaning he'll stick to you like hot-glue on upholstery. I just don't see how it would work... it's not how the class is supposed to work. After reading what you want to be, I'd still suggest you be a DK, because they're the only non-stealth up-close class that really works how you're saying--you'd still be using spells rather than typical melee like in most games, so it's not really pure-warrior... Here's an idea: Use S&S with 3-4 light and 2-3 other heavy pieces. (I've always wondered if there are light/med/heavy shields in this game...but that's not on-topic.) Take Defensive Posture and block a lot while your DoTs are ticking. That way you still rely on your fire damage, you can mitigate enough to be up front, you're not the typical melee or the typical tank or anything.. idk though mate, I feel like if I make a lot of builds and post them that you won't like any of them--you'll just need to figure it out on your own since you want something so peculiar. I do think that your fire DPS build works well in PVE where you have controlled environments with predictable party members and such as well..but if you want to PVP, idk what to tell you.

If you plan on using this PVE build as your main build, I would venture to say that you would not be able to PVP very well because your MP/ST/HP ratios are too messed up to make your PVE build viable in PVP. Also, you'd basically have to restart leveling everything anyway. A light armor DK in PVP will get wrecked, no matter how they're built because they need to be in melee range to do anything. You'd need to completely re-level a different armor--as well as 2 new weapons, have completely new enchants on that gear (of course) and completely different playstyles. I still don't understand why you won't go Sorce, I think it's a much better fit for you. As a sorce you could PVE just as well and convert to a PVP build with relative ease. EDIT: Can I ask why you want to play a DK? They are meant for tanking, I'm sorry but if you are in to min/maxing then you will just be pulling your hair out with your ideas as a DK. The fire abilities are strong, yes, but they are close-range. You can use them as a nice damage source still, but if you're in light armor in the thick of things--even as a DK you'll get a lot of poop on your chest. You've got to kite the melees if you're in light armor. Although, Spiked Armor and Ash Cloud might be enough to counter this, if you can keep them up more with light armor on than you can with heavy or medium then you could still do a bit more damage--take less damage from both physical and spell damage. Reflective Scale for fighting other casters. Fiery Grip of course. Those 4 abilities leave you with 1 ability for damage. Molten Weapons would give your PVP group a lot more benefit than any of your single-target or aoe damage abilities, and it would be less MP intensive, so I think that woul be a good choice. But, then you'd just be tanking...which you don't want to do. Another option for PVP would just be to take a resto staff and heal while you're in light armor, this is probably the best option to pair with your PVE build because you won't need to change much in the way of gear.

EDIT: If I just learn that the PC accounts will not be transferable to PS4, I will be comfortable just waiting until PS4's release. But, until this is verified, I plan on having to buy both in order not to lose an edge on PS4.

I kind of feel like they threw out the PS4 exclusive over XB1, at same time as PC, open beta at the same time as they threw out the same launch days. If, however, they do launch open-beta for PC and PS4 at same time, I would be so happy! I wouldn't need to buy it on PC, unless accounts were transferable--but I doubt they will be.

Ahh, yeah, I was right then. Did they change the name to bullets from bolts? Console-only players will be starting from level 1. PC players converting to consoles will start at level 50. You don't see the problem? EDIT: All the gold, items, supplies, and play-time that they'll manage to get in within 2 months is huge for a PvP game that's almost completely based on time-invested.

I want to know if, despite the difference of release dates; Will PS4 + XB1 users still get same-day patches as PC/Mac? And, also, will accounts be transferable from PC to PS4 or XB1?If accounts are transferable from PC to PS4/XB1, I will definitely not buy this game at all because that means the PS4/XB1 users are absolutely screwed who start fresh on there. If, however, they are not transferable, I will play casually on PC until it comes out on PS4, and then I'll play hard. I am praying/begging/hoping/wishing that they don't make the accounts transferable like they did with D3 from PS3 to PS4--what a sack of garbage that would be for the console-only gamers. I also want to know what that hand crossbow is... Probably Silver Bolts that banished the target? Or, maybe bows/xbows just have the same skill tree..and he was spinning it just for the cinematic.. or maybe even there are no xbows, and all of it was for the cinematic. Hmmm...

My guess is March 21.

Microsoft, you dun-gone and fucked up. ZeniMax is going to be pissed, even if they are right. Or--maybe it's a market ploy. I still don't believe it could be that early.

Yeah, I mean they have price-confirmed so at least that's something. I remember at the biggest chain of game-stores in Australia they had preorders for Diablo 3 for 80$ about 2.5 years before it was released -- and they were saying it would be released in a few months. XD

If they nerf it, I would still keep the same build. I would probably take Cleansing Ritual instead of Purge, but it isn't that much different. And, I really like Siege Shield so I'd keep that still. Edit: Maybe I'd take Bone Shield instead of Siege Shield, too, in that case. Bone Shield might serve me better as a light-armor target. Although, it depends on a lot of things as to which two support spells I could take there. I don't want something that I need to keep active to get benefits from--I wanted those 2 to be really passive with purpose only once in a while.. I guess I could always through Restoring Aura on there as well, and I like Eclipse. But, this is all only if they heavily nerf the regen passive for pvp support.

Well, most games have been releasing their release date only about 2 months before release lately..so this wouldn't be too surprising just from that aspect. I guess they do have preorders, price-confirmed ones at that, I was just thinking that with no release date they're unofficial but that's not really the case. But, like you said, they haven't released much information--their pace of information being released hasn't changed at all. This, to me, says they're still a ways off...but it could also mean that there's a rush of information coming. I guess we just don't know, but if Gamestop inventory-slots opened up in mid-Feb, then I guess that's at least an option we shouldn't discount... Even with ZS saying that it'll be out in spring. idk, because they're supposed to do open-beta on PS4 and PC about 3 weeks before release like normal and then 2 weeks before release on xb1.. They've said multiple times that everything, including patches+patch dates and such will be the same for both consoles and PC, so this at least gives me some peace of mind that they won't pull a twat move and release early on PC like every other game... All I know is that for me, the later in Spring it comes out, the better. I have a busy schedule lately.

Are those fingers really that bad, or is that just a bad-looking picture? It seriously looks like you've got 1 mallet finger, 1 jersey finger, and 1 boutonniere rupture.. which would mean, your hand is out of commission for at least 6 weeks. ps- This thread is awesome. Count me in for a recipient of questions!

I'll answer in the Templar thread, I haven't updated my build there in a while anyway. I think mid-feb the preorders will start, that's super early.. if that's the case then preorders should already be started. :S