Musclemagic

I believe it will be purely based off of killing blows only, to bridge the gap between AOE and Single-Target. AOE will spread more hurt to more people, but single-target should be able to keep up in actual death blows. This also would mean that healers would want to have the ability on their healing bar to dish some final #'s for single-target as well. If this is correct, then things like Mage's Fury or Whirlwind, Assassin's Blade or Reverse Slash, and even something like Silver Bolts, Death Stroke, Soul Strike, and Silver Bolts would be good because they either have a low chance (or rarely usable) but have a good chance of getting the final blow to something because of how high the numbers will be. The next best would be big-hitters such as Uppercut, Crystal Shard, Snipe, etc. Then probably AOE damage like Lightning Splash, Fiery Breath, Volley, Spear Shards, and , and then finally the big hitting spammables like Lava Whip/Piercing Javelin/Stonefist. I think the worst things will be relying on white damage and non-AOE DOTs like searing strike/agony/cripple/sun fire. But, this is all assuming that killing blows matter... and, depending on how many people AOEs end up hitting (both due to how many people are in the area and how many maximum people can be affected), AOEs could (like irons says) definitely be the best--whoever stacks spell power, and has enough resource regen to keep up those AOEs, could definitely even be the person who gets the most KBs (and of course, like irons said, will have the highest total damage by a landslide.)

Are you sure this is how it will work (where all that really matters is "assisting in as many kills as possible")? What do you reckon for healing--would it count like .5x for every member of your team that you heal during a fight or something? Edit: I feel like I've heard an interview where Konk says that they add up total damage and healing and whoever's highest is crowned. Is this what you meant by whoever has the most AOE--since that'll probably result in the most amount of numbers? I'd get my guild to spam equilibrium around me while I cast Regeneration/Grand Healing. Haha

Why is that?

Thanks, I was stressing my balls off--studying for final exams--while writing that post. Luckily Nova works there really well instead, it's actually perfect for that PBAO build. ^.^

I don't think being emperor is that big of a deal, it makes you worth about 3 people working together which isn't that huge. Campaigns last different lengths depending on the campaign you join, they said there will be short - weekend-ish ones, as well as long - monthish ones (but they could be theoretically infinite). I don't know how it will work at all, but I see your point too--I too hope that it's not going to be whoever got the most kills. Mostly though, because that wouldn't be fair to healers or control types. No matter what system they decide to implement, I will try to abuse it as hard as possible in order to become emperor early on. I really want the passive benefits applied as early as possible, even if they are minor after-effects. Haha

I would hate it if it was a popularity contest and not purely skill-based. The leader, and then the top-ranked members, of the biggest guild that's currently in the campaign would be crowned every time..making a skilled group of 25-30 obsolete even if they make up the truly skilled. How would you draw the line though? Whoever's the most popular live streamer/most well-known player in that particular campaign would get Emperor many times more often than the best players? This would make me very sad. If it does turn out to be something like this, I'm naming my character, "VoteForMe" or something. : lol

Pretty sweet crown-helmet! I can't wait to dawn that bad boy!! MUAHAHA!!!!

This thread got a ton of views while it was up, so I updated the OP and now I'm bumping it because I feel like it's a sexy ass that needs squeezing. Cheers.

If you're clueless about builds, try this thread: http://eldersouls.com/topic/4622-building-your-character-elitist-builds/

By spammable I mean things that don't have lasting effects. Using 2 Lava Whips, 2 Defensive Posture, or 2 Rushed Ceremony in a row would be spamming in this game--due to the high cost nature of spells (especially the spammable ones where you get the full effect of the spell all at once.)

By keep battles I really just mean tight-knight large-group PVP, no matter the field. FML. I'm stressing right now. Here's my final build of the day, and I'm logging out. I think this build is what I'm going to play as, it seems to be the best all-round for self interest of becoming emperor. I hate leaving the healing/control to others, but to achieve my goals I think this is what I should be: Altmer Sorc – Full Light – Destro (Elemental-Frost Enchant)/Resto (Lifesteal Enchant). 32 HP/16 MP. A few armor rating enchants, but mostly power. Fire Destro- (Frost) DPS/Control Dark Exchange – Surge – Weakness to Elements – Encase – Add snare (Mage's Fury for endgame PVE) Lightning Splash – *Overload – Resto- (Lifesteal) Survive/Support Dark Exchange – Steadfast Ward – Bolt Escape – Streak Bound Armor – Bound Aegis Magelight – *Negate Magic – Suppression Field While leveling: 1:1 MP+HP until cLvl 32, then all HP. Full light armor. MP regen enchants until Dark Exchange, then power. Destro- Any Elemental Enchant Unstable Familiar Mage's Fury (Dark Exchange when able) Encase Winged Twilight Lightning Splash *Negate Magic (Overload when Mage's Fury is Dark Exchange) Resto- Lifesteal Same as Destro, unless I can come up with a different build that uses 2 from each class-tree for Resto that's just as early in the trees and just as good. Solo // ring partner (DPS NB) until endgame build is available (Once Bolt Escape is unlocked , then I'll switch ring-partners to a tank) and use the final build for group dungeons until I'm PVP-ready (get all my gear and enchants, then I'll max out my professions if there are either passives, gear, or attachments/enchants that are better from your-own professions... On the other hand, if there's nothing that boosts combat from any of the professions, I will just farm for gold/items and sell mats/items for gold and then buy whatever I need from there. ....See you guys tomorrow with a different final build. lol XD PS- irons, please post your current ideas on your 2nd toon (resto-sorc.)

I think medium and light will be very similar damage due to the resistance reduction passive on light. 42% reduction of targets magic resistances is huge. There was a great post before, I forget the guys name who did it since he hasn't posted in a while but he said something along the lines of, "Medium > Light, Heavy > Medium, Light > Heavy." and I thought he was spot on. But now...seeing how high resistances are on heavy armor... I don't know anymore. Maybe it'll work out something like this: DPS: 1) Light = Medium 2) Heavy Mitigation: 1) Heavy 2) Light(worse against physical) = Medium(worse against magical) Perhaps medium armor isn't much lower than heavy in terms of armor, but it has much less magic resistances--and then Light isn't much lower in terms of magic resistances, but much less armor rating. That would make the most sense to me.. this game's pissing me off today though. I wish it was out already so I could just test everything... Bah.. I need to go write a philosophy paper, I'm just stressing. Now I'm also double posting all over the place. XD

Armor only provides more DPS uptime if you're soloing. In a dungeon, where there's a healer and a tank, the DPS doesn't need to worry about it as much. In PVP where the low-mitigation people are in the back and the people in front are high-mitigation and high control it will be a similar effect.So, yeah, definitely while soloing and in 1v1 situations there's a give-take relationship within yourself, but when in groups the give-take relationship is group wide. For melees, you're right, this isn't necessarily the case because they'll be forced to be on the front line (which won't be good for medium--and they should grab a bow and get in back and be happy about it, haha) so heavy will be good for front-line melee, for sure. Unless they're NB, yeah, need to ninja in and out of places to survive in that medium.. hopefully they'll be able to, or I feel like they'll be even worse than just being good for solo targets on the front line--they'll flat out be dead meat wasting out healers res-shards. XD I agree, resource management is probably the #1 thing to depict who does well and who does bad in every aspect. For example: people who have 2 spammables with the same outcome are gimping themselves because the non-spammable skills are generally more efficient to begin with..and yeah, just wasted space.. but luckily the game makes most things different enough to not have to worry about people doing this too often. I wonder how bubbles will stack though. The bubble from the enchantment, obsidian shield or conjured ward, and steadfast ward... as well as things like Brawler morph on 2H's Cleave... Think they'll all stack at all? If they do, will they all be reduced at the same time or will they be selective? Will it be cumulative? If it doesn't stack, how will it work--biggest damage bubble, longest time, or what? If they do stack..does that mean that spamming it would also stack them?? So many unanswerable questions right now it's ridiculously aggravating. I think medium and light will be very similar damage due to the resistance reduction passive on light. 42% reduction of targets magic resistances is huge.There was a great post before, I forget the guys name who did it since he hasn't posted in a while but he said something along the lines of, "Medium > Light, Heavy > Medium, Light > Heavy." and I thought he was spot on. But now...seeing how high resistances are on heavy armor... I don't know anymore.

I think that if people want to play a specific class that they'll try to make it work for their role-goal but it won't work out very well..so class is more important in my eyes (because of how few differences there are in weapons, but the classes are vastly different, like I said early) but fair enough. It's too early to tell either way.. Heck, the numbers on weapon abilities could change a lot (changing everything) and the skills in general could change quite a bit too.

I doubt they will be visible, considering how low-profile and emmersive everything's supposed to be.. but I really hope that the information gets posted somewhere (here preferably) ASAP. XD

idk where else to post this: I think these are the best builds for Keep PVP, at least for my tastes. I will end up playing something very similar to just one of the following: Breton Templar – 7 light – Resto/Destro Resto- (Bubble Enchant) Heal/Survive/Groups -Focused Charge – -Rushed Ceremony – 3 targets -Rune Focus – -Siege Shield – -Purge – *Barrier – Fire Destro- (Frost Enchant) Single target burst -Magelight – -Backlash – Health node -Sun Fire – -Piercing Javelin – -Silver Bolts – *Soul Strike – Altmer Sorc – 7 Light – Destro/Resto Fire Destro- (Frost) DPS/Control Dark Exchange – Weakness to Elements – Encase – Add snare Lightning Splash – Bolt Escape – Redirect projectiles *Storm Atronarch – AOE Resto- (Lifesteal) Survive/Support Dark Exchange – Regeneration – Heal at start Steadfast Ward – Lightning Form – Duration boost Bound Armor – Armor boost *Negate Magic – Resistance boost Khajiit NB – 7 Medium – DW/Bow DW- (Bubble) AOE/Close Drain Power – Blur – Evasion – Teleport Strike – Lotus Fan Whirlwind – *Death Stroke – Soul Harvest Bow- (Frost) Single target/Distance Shadow Cloak – Shadowy Disguise Haste – Poison Arrow – Scatter Shot – Snipe – *Consuming Darkness – A SIMILAR, more ranged focused NB OPTION: Redguard NB – 7 Medium – DW/Bow DW- (Fire) Single Target/Close Haste – Blur – Evasion – Teleport Strike – Ambush Flurry – Rapid Strikes OR Sparks – depending on if you want more survival or more DPS in 1v1. *Death Stroke – Incapacitating Strike Bow- (Frost) Distance Shadow Cloak – Shadowy Disguise Haste – Siphoning Strikes – Volley – Snipe – *Consuming Darkness – Orc DK – 7 Heavy – S&S/2H S&S- (Bubble-1h and Incrs mitigation-shield) Tank Fiery Grip – Extended Chains Dragon Blood – Shield Charge – Low Slash – Immovable – *Magma Armor – 2H- (Weapon power) Single target burst/Support Critical Charge – Reverse Slash – Momentum – Molten Weapons – Obsidian Shield – *Dragon Leap – Now, there are a lot of small variations that could be made.. but I think these make the most of the most amount of situations. I personally am trying to decide, because I like everything, what to play: Option 1) Support&Survive // Single Target Burst from rangedOption 2) Ranged DPS(AOE Emphasis)&Control // Survive&SupportOption 3) AOE Close // Single Target DistanceOption 4) Single Target Close&Survival // Group DPS from rangedOption 5) Tank // Single Target Burst&Support I like all of these playstyles... I also like drain NB, heavy armor Templar, and summoner Sorc.. I'll include the NB drain build I like:NB, Breton, Light, Destro/Destro Fire Destro - Strong open, quick finish. Invis Cloak Veiled Strike Tele Strike Assn's Blade Rapid Mnvr (Possibly Cripple instead) *Death Stroke Destro - Kite melee/drain Entropy Strife Cripple Terror Magelight (Possibly Shade instead) *Barrier Option 6) Quick killer // Kite - Both single target (which is why I wouldn't play this.) Based on all this, I have 3 NB builds, 2 Sorce builds, 2 Temp build and 1 DK build that interest me. However, I like either healing or tanking the most in games with single-target burst when necessary.. I think the Temp build will die too quickly to medium armor NB builds which will be very common--but it's too hard to say at this point. It looks like I'm going to play 4 different characters until PS4's out though, and then make 1 main on there... I feel like I'm taking the easy way out though doing that. XD I won't be happy until I figure out the one build with the least amount of weaknesses and the most amount of emperor potential... Okay, saying that, it should obviously be the Sorc build I posted--perfect AOE control/DPS, good survival, great solo-leveling capabilities, easy resources.. Maybe take Surge instead of Bolt Escape and put Bolt Escape on bar2 instead of Lightning Form..Magelight instead of Regeneration for more self-survival and then just use the DPS build for groups. Maybe maybe maybe, gah..this game frustrates me and it's not even out yet.

I hear you, but I don't think it's enough to outperform medium armor in DPS. Also, I think that weapon power would be more beneficial to DW because if it's a flat # then each hit would do more damage, the faster the attack speed the better. If it's % of weapon damage, or standardized to a specific multiplier for each weapon type (like WoW is now) then it wouldn't matter though...and I reckon it probably is, so it's a nice thought but probably not likely to work out. As much as I wish there were little things like that to give math-folks some additional advantage, I also hope that they don't have it to keep the skill curve at least down a little bit..it's already looking to be huge.

Although I think we'll probably only get the passives (which are nice) some cool abilities would be stuff like: 1) Big ranged AOE DPS that also slows the targets by 75%. 2) Reduces damage taken by 50% and increases your health by 50% passive. 3) Move 100% faster while stealthed, stealth-moving costs no stamina, and you stay invisible for 5 seconds after coming out of stealth. 4) Huge single-target melee-ranged nuke. 5) 30m radius AOE nuke-heal (that heals yourself for 2x the regular heal). Ult) Medium cost ult that instantly kills the 2 closest targets to you. Or, simply 1-6) Spirit Emperor- Whoever you look at dies, friend or foe, and you are invulnerable to everything except for single-target melee-ranged DPS...your health regen is +1000%. Good luck bitches! Haha

Yeah, what irons said. When it comes to physical DPS there's no way that heavy can outperform medium for any period of time. Perhaps if you're a khajiit NB with capped crit, the attack speed will make less of a difference for the initial burst--a heavy user would have to just straight up spam something like uppercuts followed by reverse slashes for it to be similar to the medium armor spamming the same thing... but even then, only for a very very short period.

Great point, I reckon it will as well.

Yeah, you're right. Fear/Blind don't make sense (to me) to be negated, but they probably will be. Edit: Just stumbled on this- "disabled target (stunned/immobilized/disoriented/silenced)" wtf's up with my font? Haha, oh well It looks like it applies to those + KB. So maybe blind/fear will still affect? Maybe not, because they may fall under disorients..but then again, some tooltips clearly state "disorient" so it's probably different--Blind is for sure, I think Blind just increases miss chance by 50%..which is actually pretty badass, especially on a single-target nb bar with DW/Medium for Sparks+Blur+Evasion = rarely get hit.

Do you guys think that we'll be able to gain MP while under Cloak if we're using Siphoning Strikes? (Obviously not "regenerate" it passively, but "restore" it through weapon hits??) I mean, if the St is still being restored, it makes sense that MP would still get restored. Right? :S

I know DK standard's better for your build, but it wasn't the better choice with the changes I made. You have lower resources and you think that you won't be kiteable because you have the most expensive gap-closer in the game on your bar? Good luck. Immovable will help in a lot of situations, but in some I don't think it will. "KB and disabling effects" -- what does that exactly entail? Will it help against all roots, snares, incapacitates, stuns, blinds, and fears? I don't think it will help against roots, snares, blinds, or fears, (just stuns and incapacitates) but we'll have to wait and see on that. That's really interesting about him having more Res than AR, for some reason I felt that Heavy wouldn't have Res on it. This changes a lot about my thoughts on heavy armor, thanks for showing me that. Before, I ignored it when you said that if you can force someone to attack you, you win, because I found it ridiculous because I thought that if a mage attacked you, you'd die considering you're enchanted for DPS. Now, I'm unsure of what I think of your build because while I still feel like it's unfocused I think it might work out pretty well. I do think that balancing resources on your S&S bar will help it more than hurt it, but it's still okay. Being able to reflect spells would definitely increase your magic mitigation, but it doesn't matter anymore.... I need to go rethink a lot of things about my own builds now. Heavy Armor just started looking much much better again, like it did initially for me. Gah, man, this changes everything...seriously, see you in like a week when I get done evaluating all of the builds I've ever made.

You were the one who put labels on the classes first by saying that AD would have the most control, range dps, and heals. I was trying to figure out where you were putting those labels... because if you put those 3 labels on the 3 classes that make the most sense for them, you'd be completely wrong and I wanted to point that out. There are 18 different abilities for each class, 5 from each weapon, 1 from an armor--and the ability to put 2 or 3 at a time from armors if you take multiple armor types. Considering how predictable all the armor skills are, and how similar all the weapons are except for Resto, it's easy to predict how each class will be different from the other classes. NB with a bow is no different. They're very good single-target killers, but NB doesn't have enough multi-unit control, escape, defense, or ranged aoe to be considered good in large group PVP. Sure, they can sit back and snipe, but it's low DPS--especially if you're back so far you don't have white hits. And, if they get close they will simply die faster than anyone else when there's big AOE damage going on. Maybe I should clarify, by large group PVP I mean tight knit groups of 20-30 who know what they're doing. If there's closer to 15 people, and they're spread out all over a keep, I think NB is going to be amazeballs. If you look at the class skill trees it's clear what their roles will usually be... I don't see how this is making any assumptions, or how it's arbitrary. We have the information, and it's clear as day. With a sample size that small, TF #'s don't matter that much, true. There's nothing else to go off of though when starting our initial characters. Look at WoW, even different realms (even really populated ones) have hugely different class %'s...so yeah, TF probably doesn't matter...so instead of using TF #'s, let's use racial abilities only (since that's the only difference between the alliances.) If we're going off racials, then DC still has the most well rounded team...and that right there, being well-rounded, is probably the most important factor in AVA where there are more than two sides. Hmm... either that, or whoever is best at killing NBs wins..since NB is definitely going to be the most popular class (welllll, probably at least at the start). It would give an edge to the team who can kill them easiest. idk mate, it's too early to say until we see the size of everything. How it is in my head right now, NB isn't good because I picture bigger squads in tight groups being the big influence of the battle...which might not be the case at all, so you're right--I guess I am making at least one really big assumption. XD Edit: This convo should be moved to the Cyrodill PVP Thread

"This is not really a dps build though." = Exactly what I'm saying, so why is the 2H DPS bar the main bar? It won't take much more damage than a medium armor build would, so I don't understand the draw to this. "...alot of these actives require stamina,..." = Opposite of what I'm saying. What I said is that he uses too much MP in S&S bar. His 2H bar is perfect because Obsidian Shield is spammable while your group's taking damage and it's just amazing so it's the perfect MP use in 2H bar. The S&S bar's just too MP heavy for his resource layout to be useable--and it doesn't increase his magic resistance at all, which is what should really be the focus of that bar to begin with IMO since he's heavy armor. Mixing and matching medium and heavy would help his DPS a bit more, yeah. If I was making a physical DPS DK I'd either go 7 med or 5 med & 2 main-piece heavy and then use bow instead of S&S. I think it's a really really good build for fighting physical DPS builds in 1v1 -- Assuming they're also melee users. If they're using a bow it will just turn into a chase/kite match where there probably would never be a victor -- and I can't picture it shining while trying to do anything else in particular with it...