Areodon

Perhaps you're right. I would like to have char who is best melee overall dps there is with sufficient survivability ofc. Prefer melee range combat. Prefer PVE over PVP but not that much to dismiss PVP. If u have some build which is hard to play but it will push some serious numbers - trust me i can do it. I am ready to invest quite some time in this game and it is not an issue if i have to gather significant number of attribute points ( i don't have problem if i have to cover 2 armors , 3 weapons, 2 crafts ( for combat bonuses..) I don't need to be efficient at beginning . I need efficiency 2-3 month after i reach veteran content. If i have to choose just between options u gave me like : survival, group support, raw killin power then i would say raw killing power with sufficient survivability ( what is sufficient depends on group but let say that in pve ill have very decent groups at beginning and at the end great groups. More or less i am open for NB ( i accept stealth totally ) and Templar. Regarding races - human and elfs that all i can imagine to play myself. At this point i think that NB is closest to style i can fit in.

Thanks mate. I know sometimes i am pain in the ass :-). Obviously i have to drop some of constraints. I get it regarding pvp. On the other side its obvious that can't have pve fire dps and viable pvp build. I have to chose between templar and nightblade. In next couple of days i have to figure it out. Then i will ask u for advice.

I can't see picture , i can't see limitations. Thats my problem obviously . I never liked long range caster. Never liked pure warrior. Never liked stealthy guys. If u say that dk can't push DPS numbers then i am there with templar and certain types of nightblade.

I don't have anything against weapon damage and abilities just i have magic based damage in pve and i guessed it will be pretty difficult to adjust resources with gear and armor. But please if its not problem give me idea what would be Bruiser build and how that may look like - bars, armor, ench ...

Ok Irons - can u give me in broad strokes what u see as viable options ?

More or less i think that i am as much close to my PVE built as i can get in this moment. Now i am thinking of PVP built. I dont have idea in what kind of pvp group i may end up. So i would like to have some stand alone built and then if i become part of some group and know group requirements then i will adjust ofc. I would like to do most of damage with DK abilities and to use one handed and shield for close combat survivability. Obviously i dont have idea what my other weapon could be. For sure i know that i could go in another direction and take bow as weapon. Idea is not to assume tanky role but more damage guy who just use skills and bonuses from weapon ( sword and shield) in order to survive- Is it possible and how ? How my bars could look like and what about resources ? If i talk nonsense just give me direction .

Interesting but not sure how reliable info is that "H:M:S of 12:25:12 provides for spread of of 31.4%/37.2%/31.4%." - For sure i know that guy who stated this was in beta testing.

Fire in this case is not bad news at all .-)

This is thread from tamriel foundry forum..... "So this happened. Even believable by microsoft? If it’s true I actually think it’s a little too soon to be coming out. The hype just isn’t big enough and I think a lot of people were hoping for more beta tests first. Plus it isn’t even spring lol. Just thought I’d see what you guys think, if it’s credible. It was posted on the ESO facebook page a good bit and the moderators keep taking it down. http://www.microsoftstore.com/<wbr />store/msusa/en_US/pdp/<wbr />productID.285251700 Saying 2/25/14 release"

Think that we dont have info or clue when it can happend. For me spring is good enough as far as they deliver high quality product.

Aoe spell damage in general is short range , covering small area and with mild intensity in comparison to most games i played. That is for sure game changing factor. On purpose or imbalance devs are dealing with, is to be seen. Can u please explain me what impulse does other than magic damage - what formulation "100 % chance to apply" means from your perspective? From my perspective it looks like prep for next spell which will actually do burning effect. If i am right it is more or less counterbalance to ash cloud kind of spells ( miss chance). If I am right from Pve perspective it is extremely situational and more or less worthless considering resource mechanics.

Probably i will build few just to know them better for purpose of pvp ( home work - just to know better what they can against me:-). I am not good in pvp at all. Played pvp always just for pure fun, but i am interested in AvA. If they will try to save u for end perhaps better is to be fake tank. I know that your build was targeting my idea of PVE DK DPS. Muscle and I crunched some numbers before ( if my built faces tank). In my opinion i can win that encounter only if tank has serious computer malefunction. Think that DK regarding PVE DPS side has to be ballanced a lot before release or we will be in pretty bad shape on release.

Hey mate, I wouldnt go that far in comparison to other clases ( i dont have other class numbers ) but i am not overwelmed with DK numbers and facts ( no feasible long range , pretty bad aoe, have to play in robes ) so far. Thanks for running numbers. I made my decision and ill stick with DK. Game is like 5-6 months far from release and ballancing can jump in at the end. Ill squezee out every drop dps from him eventually and hope for the best I have asked several confirmations in my previous mail - like how much i will get from one enchant, crit multiplier...... thanks again

Magic u said that i will for sure can have constantly up Spiked armor, Weakness , Searing strike and Fiery breath DOTS. DISCLAIMER : I am making math on basis of ESO skills reference sheet ( last time updated on 08.12.2013 ). I miss some formulas/info and will try to guess how some things adds up. Lets see what we will get : Cost in one minute ( for the level 50 i will multiply cost with 8 ): 1) spiked armor is 4x42 = 168 ( 8x168x79% = 1061 M/m or 17,68 sec) 2) searing strike 5x18=90 (8x90x79% =568,8 M/m or 9,48 M/s 3) fiery breath is 9x35= 315 (8x315x79% = 1990 or 33,1 M/s 4) weakness 4x35 = 140 ( 8x140x79% = 884,8 M/m or 14,7 M/sec ) In one minute i have total cost of magic for level 1 = 713 minus 21% (evocation) = 589. If i want to convert it to level 50 i will multiply it with 8 and will get around 4712 magic/minute. Let say that my magic pool at level 50 will be around 1400 ( 1000 + 30 points in magic + dynamic 6%). It will normally be regenerated in 33 secs. I have increased magic regeneration for 27% (dynamic and recovery). It means that i will have 1400 back in 24,09 sec. That will be 58,1m/s. To turn over my mana pool 3,36 times i need to compensate 20,43 m/s and that says i have to enchant at least 5 slots ( each slot is 4.24 m/s )with mana regeneration if each brings 10% increase of mana regeneration. If this calculation is conservative / not correct - then ok ill have just more available slots. Output in one minute for level 50 ( i will roughly multiply level 1 dmg with 15 ): 5xsearing strike =15x5x 1,4 ( weakness to elements )x(1,07 (flame talent ) x ( 11+ 3 (kindling )* 15) = 6.291,6 DPM or 104,86 DPS 9x fiery breath = 15x9x1,4 ( weakness to elements)x(1,07 *1,1 ( world in flames)x(5+3(kindling)*12)=9.120,57 DPM or 152 DPS per enemy . If i have 1,2 enemies in average in aoe that will take me to 10.944 DPM or 182,41 DPS If i combine those two ill get 17.235,6 DPM or 287,26 DPS ( if those guys are without resistance , did not mitigated/avoided anything and i haven't had crits ( let say that crit will be further on for argument sake x 2 and with prodigy let say my total crit chance is 10%). What 1 magic invested in spell is producing in Damage terms : Searing strike = 11,061 Fiery breath = 5,51 For simulation sake i will take very conservative premise and say that average guy is similar as i ( spell resistance and spell override ) I can make estimate that 30% landed ( guy has up obsidian shield 30% , i missed something , they avoided, some of them died before dot ended ) Participation of white hits might be around 50% (thats what muscle say). That give me to total of 10.341,36 + crits = 11.375,5 DPM or 189,6 DPS without some power multipliers coz i dont know what they do and how they work. When i know a bit more about power we can continue with real output results for certain builds. Let speak a sec in pvp terms - if i go after tank ( i know his spell resistance will not be high like above mentioned light robe guy but ..).... What this 189 dps says - i will need at least 20 secs ( his health regeneration will be around 130-150) to overcome his health pool and natural regeneration. And then healing ( in general - self healing and from healer )jumps in - in other words - i dont stand fucking chance against tank at all. back to pve ... Thats all if am at shooting range and they cant touch me. And trust me they will hit me and i will need to spend mana on surviving in other words - simply can't have that kind of output. I would expect to spend magic resource in bad group at least 30 % on self preservation and 20 % on support in pve. - that means that i can have 50% of time those spells up or i have to drop fiery breath at least. I would expect to spend magic resource in good group at least 15 % on self preservation and 10 % on support - that means that i can switch on breath 2-3 times in minute I would expect to spend magic res in great group like 10 % on self preservation and 10 % on support. which means that i can have breath like 70 % of the time on . I short words - its not that easy to keep all those up or my aoe will be bad. And lets not forget that i spent some slots for mana regeneration. P.S. Go through numbers and correct me if i made certain mistakes in math.

Thanks mate , If molten is around 5% its huge. Inferno is pretty expensive for backup damage. Gap closer is to be considered but before we see how AI will work we can't know. About spell distribution over 2 bars : think that we over analyze things. Why - simple math is showing that full rotation without gaps is totally impossible ( spamming). It means that we have time for a lot of things and among other for hotbar switching. If i am right then we better have some solutions for stamina supply.

Thanks mate, I have couple of questions/observations : 1) What armor I should use in your opinion for this build 2) What is inferno range (around me) 3) Why to have same spells on both loadouts ( i can have more spells/utilities other way around ) 4) Why to lose fiery reach which in morphed version can give me serious damage multiplier ( 1,4 ) and close gap if we know that i don't have serious long range dps abilities. If cc is on other bar i have to spend at least 3 seconds to continue dps ( Switch to second bar , hit petrify , switch to first bar ). If we know that single target - searing strike is cost efficient ( a bit better than fiery breath ) it means that i would rather resolve two attackers with petrify , other with single target then to dps with aoe which will break petrify. if i have more than two on me then its simple have to press o'shit butt and deliver as much damage as i can in second to take down with me as much as possible. 5) your observation about spiked/obsidian is spot on. 6) Imagine that i don't have inferno on second bar why u would need obsidian shield on that bar. And then again u have both on my first bar. I think that both are redundant on second bar. As general rule in my opinion u have to have as much as possible answers for simple combat patterns on your bars. One hotbar is to short and it has to provide u complete answer for one dimension of problems. That take us to fragmentation problem caused by short bars. We agreed more or less about abilities but we speak about distribution which will provide as much dps up time as possible and survivability in both situations/hotbars. What is your rough estimate dps with and without molten weapons (percentage wise). I learned about difference spiked ad obsidian thanks ( that is making one spot on my second bar free for whatever - probably one aoe more) . Never was thinking about that.

If i separately observe first bar - following your way I would make more damage ( i will not waste time on swapping and have more resistance override). I guess your idea was to provide for less swapping since i have damage keystones on my first bar => that take us to spending most of time on first bar. I believe your suggestion for first bar is viable if it provides sufficient survivability. My basic idea was that having light armor while standing in melee range ( coz of lack of long range offensive spells - u haven't cured this in your suggestion) is going to be tricky from perspective of survivability ( your option is reducing stamina and stamina regeneration, health regeneration and health pool and increasing magica pool and mag reg). In option i was considering my char would need for lot less healing and support from my group and that will save group resources which is also beneficial for the group. I have used aoe utility like ash cloud which is also group support coz enhancing mob miss chance. Petrify on second bar ( support bar / i will spend a lot less time on that bar) is losing important element of its nature - mid range interrupt ( time for switching will be at least 1 second and that leaves me to 0.2 sec to interrupt - thats unreliable). Having breath on utility bar is not an option coz that aoe will "unpetrify" mob. AOE Hot provided by regeneration is in my perspective marginal ( cca 0,5 % of health per sec per person over 20 sec) to be base for investing in resto passives. If u are occasional/non reliable support healer then u want to dish out some serious heal to specific target.Think that would be just waste of resources. Regarding guardian ( racial ) i really dont have idea what is dev idea what he should do and how well in terms of numbers he will perform - so that leaves him out of my considerations till i know a bit more. By the way i like molten weapons ! All in all your proposal has some strong pros and some strong cons. What is better - don't know but anyways thanks mate for helping me find a solution for me. We will be much smarter when we have more info. One is sure - this game is different then most i played before and how much different it is to be seen.

Tanking ? No i dont want to tank. I told u in previous mails what i want to do - dps based on fire. What long range spells do i have on my disposal ( in my opinion i have Force shock and entropy ( mage guild) - single target both) - only thing i have for long range is white hits. From my perspective I have all single and aoe damage i need. All that tanking spells ( damage mitigation) are there to compensate for light armor. Imagine if i went for heavy armor - then u would say - no mate u dont have enough magic. That 9 in stamina is there to be able to break from cc and besides i don't know how much i will spend of it to make let say 15 m run, how much one block costs, how i will survive aoe (have to run out and grip guy to me). Those questions are just fraction of questions i have on my mind. What i wanted to accomplish with my two bars - i wanted to manage actives and passives behind it in most cost efficient way focusing resource management, wanted to have sufficient survivability for close range combat considering that DK + destro doesn't have long range spells which give bang for buck equal to my class spells. At the end i have on the bars what i have. But seriously - take a look what u suggested me like 2-3 mails ago ( destro - resto ). Funny thing is that i make my living on crunching numbers and have very little or none of necessary info to start with. P.S. Splitting bars on single and aoe is totally wrong from my experience but still i have buffer ( petrify )and aoe would be above two mobs and considering aoe is lacking range i don't see much i can get/lose there.

U are very kind mate. Please do that - by now u know what i am looking for. I would appreciate to teach me what (why ) i did wrong in last build (destro / destro). I am used to have all stats and mech boss in front of me, and then, its easy for me. Theorycrafting is discipline where u have to have a lot of theoretical knowledge and i am short there. When i sit down and start to do some math i have more and more and more questions, can't find firm point around which i can build - at the end i just drop it.

Obviously i can't let it go. I would like to try something like maximising magica and fire dps in PVE . What u think about this build ( 5 light and 2 Heavy ; point distribution: 25M;15H and 9 stam; enchants will be there for fine tuning) : Destro Fiery reach Weakness to elements Searing strike Petrify Spiked armor Magma armor Destro Obsidian shield Fiery breath Dragon blood Ash cloud Inhale Meteor / Dragon standard I would also consider ( trapping webs ( single ), inner fire, inferno ( multi target), bone shield , immovable, if i really need gap closer then ill take crit charge from two hander ) I had few trade offs coz of positioning on hotbars ( mostly coz of passives): 1) wanted to have as soon as possible ultimate and some stamina back (petrify and obsidian shield), health regeneration ( blood and spiked); Wanted to have some defences on both loadouts ; Petrify is there to give me option not to switch to aoe bar ( if i have two mobs on me ); ended up with splitting bars on aoe and single ( if that works will mostly depend on switch mechanics) . Guys what do u think ?

Hey Musclee, Irons No i havent updated curent build coz i really dont know where to go from here unless to start from scratch. On the other side i like this build a lot ( credit for it goes to Irons ). I feel it must work. Scarcity of information ( and constant changes ) makes almost imoposible task to calculate it down to the point where its easy to recognise what are answers on questions in front of us.

Muscle, Thanks for advice. I am not convinced coz i believe in numbers. Probably we can't have math completed due to lack of info. I hear your logic about splitting resources but even if it is only relevant factor - split of resources is something u do all the time even in hard core cookie build so it means that sometimes is better to split then to stay in one . Besides that, game which is having unique combat system for active defences can't marginalise offence which are those defending. In short words - white hits (normal and power attack )must stand for something. If white hits are significant damage dealers then spells are filling white hit gaps .-). Perhaps i am wrong coz i have on my mind completely different combat mechanics then it will be the case. That combat mechanics ( in my mind ) is actually reason why i want to use 2 hotbars as one so i can fill swap hotbar gap with white hit . Still i think that i have to suck it up for now and check all options we have in the game. After all i will not play till release of the game because of personal reasons :-)

then private user said :-) Huh i knew u will do that. U are thinking out the box ( that is not good - that is great ) . There is one huge "flaw" to your build. Its more or less remote controle DPS. I love to get dirty and to be on the edge. On the other side DK does have a lot of DMG mitigation skills and can survive. I know how to keep this guy alive and take their souls - at least in PVE. Imagine that u are building car for ex Formula 1 driver. I would rather go with 2H and Destro. I know u said dw because of light armor but i suppose i will not be in light with 2H and Destro. I know this way i am splitting resources and thats why i need your expertise. I would really need a bit skill balancing and rock hard resource distribution ( points , armor and enchants). In regard to hotbar switching - do we know for how long we will be "paused " . If it is under one second then its feasible. With hotbar switching all the time u dont need to think about two weapons like ill use them 50;50 . Ill use destro for weakness and everything else on situational bases. All but weakness ( spell) i have already on my class line. So clearly regarding resource distribution we can say i have 2H weapon and lot of magic based skills. I would say that i will press magic buttons in 60 - 65 % of the cases. I would like also to check one fact - what is the magic cost of searing strike ( i have info its 18????? ) if it is 18 on level 1 i suppose its best button u can have regarding cost efficiency. Mate, again - thank u very, very much for helping me. Areo I know that "public opinion" goes in if favor of DK tanks. Still from dps point of view DK is/will be great choice. Like Muscle says great firepower , great defence but difficult to balance. It doesn't need to be in balance ( PVE ). Since PVE is group game u need to have great firepower and some spells which will trim peaks (Damage mitigation, cc, stun so u can create second wall of defence in order to protect caster and healer). For that u need really good group ( tank , healer ). Why great dps is always in the best guilds - coz if he is balanced can't push numbers. Only trick to make DK work will be how to adjust resources to game style of particular player. Backbone will be Armor and everything else will be built around it (resource point distribution , enchants, pots). PVP is completely different ball game. There u have to have more balance and ofc specific pvp skills ...