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The Elder Scrolls VI... Improving the series

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#1
The Underking

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Hey guys, first and foremost I want to thank the whole team working at Bethesda for delivering to us not just games, but priceless moments that we will never forget, they are people that truly care about their fans :)The whole point of this topic is to have people step back and take a look at the progression of the elder scrolls series as a whole. The first game of this series I started playing was Oblivion, and ever since I saw the intro, it hooked me like no other game has done before.I tried to play Morrowind but the combat seemed so horrendous at first I stopped and never experienced the whole story, which is such a shame now that I hear it had the best story out of all the games.The way I look at it, it seems as though the writing behind all the quests and story of the games has diminished greatly, while, of course, the graphics have improved. But to me, graphics don't matter as much when the quality of the writing is compromised so greatly that it turns out being unbearably cliche. I know we all love to see gorgeous forests and epic vistas, but whenever I'm playing Skyrim all the quests feel the same. I don't know if it is just me, but a lot of them are just fetch quests, and not to mention the guild questlines are questionably short. It really seems like the team spent too much time on the visuals and not enough effort on the other aspects that really make the series fantastic.There are also other small things that bother me that probably don't bother anybody else at all, but the new menu and the text of the words feels wayyy too modern to be put in this game, it just feels out of place whenever I'm reading my journal, switching gear, etc. I also thought that the loading screens were pretty unoriginal. Its little things like this that can make or break the immersion aspect of the game and I feel like they're straying off in the wrong direction.How do you think they should improve the series?

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#2
David

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First of all, let me welcome you to the site. It's been nice having quite a few new users recently. :smile:It is true that the games have had progressively fewer options, specifically due to dialogue. In older TES games, there was no (or little) voice acting apart from the main questlines. This let Bethesda add millions of text/dialogue options that they'd never be able to afford to voice. With a game like Skyrim, where voice actors are even included for minor characters - the costs quickly become to great and you're left with fewer dialogue options. This impacts the story indirectly.I agree that the quests in Skyrim are generally much shorter than Oblivion's, and I know we have a thread on that specific subject here somewhere. Some questlines, specifically the Champion's Guild, are way to reliant on "retrieve quests" as you said... However, Oblivion had tons and tons of quests like that too.I give Bethesda credit for not doing the copy-paste methods used in previous games... Remember how every dungeon in Oblivion was exactly the same? Every location in Skyrim is custom, and that also took a great deal of resources. I think it was a decent trade-off since exploration in Oblivion was much more redundant.The menu didn't really bother me because the interface is not really meant to be integrated into the game; a menu is for the player essentially. When reading books, or things actually in the environment, the text is quite well done in my opinion. I agree on the loading screen though, it's quite ugly and I always get the same 2-3 renders....

#3
The Underking

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Thank you for the warm welcome :)I guess it is just personal preference for me then to have everything "feel" like its part of the game world. Thank god for mods in that case.But for me, I would honestly be happy with a world that is half the size of Skyrim and have that time and money spent working on better questlines, animations, etc. If the whole world really was detailed by hand, think about how much time that is! It's amazing how long it takes to walk the whole map and to think it was all created painstakingly by artists for hundreds of hours.My take on it is this, basically have a balance of everything in the game. Obviously the story was lacking a bit and that was due to the cost of voice acting, so maybe they shouldn't spend extra money on big time voice actors anymore?

#4
Tristan

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I've never played any of the other elder scrolls games, mainly because I would prefer enjoying the scenery while doing a short lazy questline, I thought the game was brilliantly made with little flaws, but when I really got into it and quickly ran out of things to do I started seeing like you explained itThe questlines are too short bc don't you think Bethesta would try and modernize it a little with playing with their new toys and instead giving the player some scenery and a couple of good questlines instead of well, oblivions graphics and a still half decent storyline that could still not live up to oblivion or morrowwind, more thirteen year old kids don't give a crap about how good the games storyline is and that's like the majority of the people that even buy the freakinn game, so Bethesta would rather have a bunch of little kids like their games than the people like us that would be sitting here talking about how awesome it would be if the games graphics sucked again

#5
The Underking

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You're sort of right about their target audience, i would hate to see this series meet the same demise as call of duty. I think that they really spend too much time trying to make the world massive, and i mean REAL massive. But the thing is with a map this size is that the player ends up getting bored with it. All the while, the gameplay is still the same, the enemies are the same, and matter of fact the dungeons all kind of look the same to me, despite them customizing it even more than oblivions. Here's what i suggest they do:Expand on the diversity of the gameplay itself - Ever since Morrowind came out, Bethesda has been making the amount of options available to the player smaller and smaller, trying to make everything streamlined and "easy". I cannot tell you how much i HATE this. I actualy liked picking classes in Oblivion!!! I liked looking at the cool art that went with every single class and the description it had with it, it made me feel like i was playing an RPG! They also greatly diminished the amount of spells in each magic skill instead of expanding on it. Like for instance for the destruction skill, they should add a branch to the tree that deals with dark magic and has curses, life drain, etc.Add more finishing moves with the combat system - Time after time, the same stealth move over and over again gets reallllll old.Follow the Lore - I hate when I see something in the game that is really skewed or inconsistent with the lore of the series. Example; Volkihar Vampires are supposed to hide under frozen lakes and are able to reach through the ice without breaking it to grab victims. This is one of the coolest descriptions that i've read within the in game books, why would they implement regular vampires that are sub par to Oblivion's?Put the "game" back in the game - As you all know, Bethesda streamlined a lot of things into the new game. No more class picking, no more finding a bed to level up, quest objectives are even easier to find. When you think about it, it's just skipping to all the fun parts of the game without having to go through all the work. For me it adds realism when you have to find a bed to rest in and level up, it was something that was unique to the series and now its just a boring menu option that you can go to anywhere.I'll stop here even though i can go on for hours lol

#6
David

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I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but disagree on a few points:

    [*]The magic systems organization in Oblivion wasn't very good, and this is coming from someone who always bases his character off of it. There was a huge amount of overlap between the different magic classes. Mysticism vs. Illusion? It was specifically confusing how they were split up and organized, I think Skyrim's system of moving some of the more redundant spells into the same school was a good move. I didn't feel like they elimintated tons of them so much as they consolidated them. With that said, magic is far, far too weak in Skyrim when compared to something like melee.
    [*]Yes, Skyrim could still use more variety in finishing moves. However, compared to the old games of Morrowind/Oblivion, the combat system is hundreds of times better with variety. Oblivion/Morrowind didn't have ANY different moves or animations, much less finishing moves.
    [/list]I do miss the relatively complex leveling system of Oblivion, even if it was admittedly too confusing for most players. There's a happy medium to be had. If you invested your entire game around character development in Oblivion with efficient leveling, you could have a character damn near maxed in every attribute at level 15.

    I think it's important to note just how much more realistic the environment is in Skyrim, even looking past the graphics. Play Skyrim for a few hours, and then put in Oblivion; everything will look hilariously cartoonish and fake. Yes, Skyrim is much newer, but the improved graphics do add a great deal to the immersive aspect of the game, even if it was at the loss of some options.

#7
Blake

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I think Oblivion's landscape was more diverse and beautiful. I especially liked the Imperial City, which tbh, I don't think I've ever explored that entirely. I guess what I want to see is a game that looks as good as Skyrim, probably better graphics by the next installment, but a more diverse and interesting environment.Also, I'm still kind of confused by Oblivion's stat and skill system while I found Skyrim's stat and skill system to be overly easy. Still preferred the simplicity of Skyrim's than the mind-fuckitude of Oblivion's, but maybe a more complicated system with perks.Biggest complaint with Oblivion is was the repetitive nature of the dialogue. It seems everybody in Cyrodill was soo interested in Kvatch months after it got torched. Skyrim did a great job adding loads of unique dialogue, but the characters didn't talk to each other as much. Again, a combination of these two things will be nice.Lastly, an improved magic combat system, separation of body and legs, and the special niche (Oblivion gates for Oblivion and dragons for Skyrim) to not be annoying.

#8
Tristan

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You guys have to slow down way down, though skyrims graphics are better than the other elder scrolls games, they are still pretty bad, theyre nowhere near as good as MW3, or Battlefield, or even Reach, or combat evolved, the new one of course, but you are all trying to say just bc the graphics and player options have changed that its a different series, half trying to say its better but not better, or worse but not worse, can u not have fun on it, would you rather gripe about how sucky it is to have fun on, u can still play it and have about the same amount of fun as on the other game but maybe in a different way, its gonna be different than Oblivion, theres nothing fixing that now, Besides, what do you do on Oblivion that u cant do on Skyrim, I know i wouldnt be able to play Oblivion without getting aggitated with the pitiful graphics, so maybe it just depends on which one u played first.If we should be mad about any thing we should be mad about the uselesness of food, like 1 or 2 health isnt gonna help my predicament, they should have a food bar, so tht food isnt totally useless

#9
Blake

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Well yeah, we all enjoy the series. Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim are all perfect to me, regardless of their short comings. Much of the appeal from TES games to me isn't the graphics or combat, but just the overall feel and experience you gain from the game. I think Oblivion beats Skyrim in regards to experience, but again, maybe that is because I had it for years. Regardless, it isn't important which is better. This topic is just picking apart the games little bugs and annoyances and saying how Bethesda could go about creating the perfect TES game, which tbh, will never exist.And I agree with you a bit about the food situation. Although a lot of it is just added for role playing purposes, I would like to see the cooking mechanic they have in Skyrim expanded a bit so I might actually use it.

#10
The Underking

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"Although a lot of it is just added for role playing purposes, I would like to see the cooking mechanic they have in Skyrim expanded a bit so I might actually use it."See thats exactly the kinds of things that they need to focus on. I don't know if you guys ever played Fallout: New Vegas, but there is a hardcore mode where i think you have to eat and drink every day and it is really like a survival game.Oh and I feel as if though the freedom that is given to the player is restricted even more every time a new game in the series is released. Acrobatics was one of my favorite skills, not only because it is a skill that is unique to the series, but it allowed the player to fully explore an already vast world. I know the jumping animation was lame and odd looking, but that didn't matter to me at all. I just wish they'd expand on the skill options again

#11
Tristan

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Id like to see more animals in the game giving a more easy way to get leather from pelts, bc tbh i cannot hunt those effing deer

#12
The Underking

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I thought the hunting was pretty realistic, obviously a deer isn't going to go down after one arrow in the side, and they are startled really easily which is what i expect. by level 30 though i had more than enough leather from all those sabre cats and giants that I killed, it was so much i just ended up dropping like 15 leather at a time :o.What I would like to see in regards to weapon smithing is more customization. The game requires the player to buy or find schematics in order to craft certain weapons/armor. For instance, maybe for a glass sword there are five different types of blade edges for that weapon, and then five different handle types, etc. Finding schematics is not the only way to learn how to craft a weapon either, if you find the weapon/armor while exploring, the player is able to go back to the smithy and learn how to craft it by destroying it (just like enchanting). Furthermore, the player is able to melt down any armor/weapons that they don't use and basically salvage the materials to make new products.

#13
David

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I would like to add to the customization idea: spells. Oblivion's system was fantastic, allowing you to create, manage, and customize as many spells as you wanted to create. This is one reason magic was so good in Oblivion. Skyrim removed this ability, AND nerfed the damage of the base spells... Resulting in a magic system that's extremely weak in combat. Simply re-introducing custom spells could go a long ways in fixing that issue.Oh, and I just wanted to say that I had this image of hunting bears in Red Dead Redemption when you guys were talking about more animals. I remember shooting grizzlies for 30mins straight as 4-5 continuously responded around me until I ran out of ammo and died on a pile of 50 corpses. Let's not let Skyrim go that far. :tongue:

#14
Tristan

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The player is able to melt down any armor/weapons that they don't use and basically salvage the materials to make new products.

Like on two worlds two :mellow:

Oh, and I just wanted to say that I had this image of hunting bears in Red Dead Redemption when you guys were talking about more animals. I remember shooting grizzlies for 30mins straight as 4-5 continuously responded around me until I ran out of ammo and died on a pile of 50 corpses. Let's not let Skyrim go that far. :tongue:

I meant more speices of animals, LoL not MORE animals :teehee: < upside down smiley

I thought the hunting was pretty realistic, obviously a deer isn't going to go down after one arrow in the side, and they are startled really easily which is what i expect.

I was sayin that between my bow and my arrow and what is suposed to be at the end of my arrow are two different things, like an effing tree :wallbash:

#15
Blake

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Well one thing that needs to be considered is that Bethesda was playing with some brand new mechanics for a TES game in Skyrim. In Oblivion, there wasn't any smithing, food, cooking, the alchemy system they have now, etc. I'm guessing they will improve these systems with the next installment, and maybe add a couple of new ones too.




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