Building Your Character - Elitist Builds

[irons]

I was talling about PvP.That's something that should also be in the builddescription.A pure healerbuild might work in Raids, but not in small scale PvP, where u get instant focused. Etc.

I agree if you don't have a gap closer in PvP as a melee fighter you are useless.

[Musclemagic]

I won't talk about the other builds because I'm kind of focused on the DK.

 

 

But your DK build is one of the worst I have seen so far.

 

For example you put spiked armor, obsidian shield and immoveable on one bar. Having 3 of those skills is a complete waste something you said yourself. Flurry is a bad skill for a Tank because it's a channel which means that you can't react while using it.

You use your second hotbar only for your buffs which also means that you have to switch often between the 2 which is a dmg loss and you also loose out ont the sword/shield passives .

Next thing you have no AoE.

Than why did you go with Breton instead of Orc or Redguard, which both are better tank races in that 1 alliance.

 

 

It might sound harsh but many on here see your builds and think "yeah he makes great builds I wanna use that build" which is fine but not when you come up with a build like this.

 

Yeah, I need to make write ups for each of those builds, because this is ludicrous.

 

I believe this is like the best PVE tank possible. I'll explain:

 

I took Breton for the Magic Resistances to couple with the DK passive Magic Resistances so the armor doesn't need to enchant into MR that much. Also, it doesn't need to be enchanted for MP as much due to the slightly lower cost of spells and higher base MP. Orc/Redguard better tanks? You'll have to explain why, because I don't see it... Do you mean for the stamina or for the 5% health on orcs? :S You get more than 5% health on Breton through need-based stat distribution--you are able to allocate a lot more health stats as breton. The stamina regen is nice on Orc/Redguard but it doesn't seem that powerful really.

 

Puncture spamming makes it easy to keep all targets focused on you at all times, just from running around and hitting each of them. There's no need for a gap closer as a tank in most PVE situations except for the initial pull, in which case you can use Fiery Reach in the DW bar then swap to S&S. You'll want to use the DW bar initially before each fight to get Molten Weapon's up anyway.

 

The rest of the DW bar is for single-target DPS, when fights required you kill a certain enemy quick rather than just tank it.

 

The S&S bar, other than puncture, isn't necessarily all about the mitigation-- Spiked Armor up keeps you getting 12% incrs to heals, Obsidian Shield (as well as Molten Weapons) should give you ~15+% stamina (more punctures) on each activation as well as the damage absorb group-wide that could really help, it's also powerful because with all the mitigation this build has, each point of healing on the bubble is multiplied by your mitigation, meaning if your healer's in trouble you really want this spell around to keep yourself alive.  Immovable is taken more for the anti-CC than for the dmg-reduction, as the tank your positioning is extremely important, this is especially true because you don't want to bar-swap for the gap closer. Ash Field is amazing, it's better than Dark Talons because you can use it to help allies disappear completely, making the mobs focus entirely on you again (so, if--your example of the healer needing peels--not only will the 70% slow be plenty to allow the healer to get away, but if it's dire he can simply disappear with Ash Field.

 

irons, you definitely jumped the gun without looking at the build. "Worst build ever" is also just a slap for no cause:

Firstly, those 3+Ash Shield aren't for the mitigation exactly, *except when weighing Spiked Shield vs Dragon Blood*, the mitigation's just a bonus. If there was another form of mitigation, I'd take it, but Low Slash doesn't work very well and Reflective Scale instead of Spiked Shield would be too hard to keep up for the +12% healing received. There's not a better combo for synergizing the passives with.

 

Flurry wouldn't be used while tanking, and the only times you'd be using the DW bar is in specific situations and pre-battle for Molten Weapons/Pull. It's rare (only during the fast single-target kills) to use the DW bar during combat, so saying that the S&S bar's just for buffs is the exact opposite of what it's for.

 

Yeah, it's a pure-tanking build without DPS during combat.. Leave it to the DPS, having a tank that can manage everything with extreme ease is the #1 key to having a smooth dungeon.

 

 

Ash field works in a PvE scenario where you stand in front of a boss and keep him at you with puncture.

I don't agree with you on the point that ash filed is kind of useless without a gap closer but I agree with that Ash field is best used in combination with other abilities.

For example when your healer has 2 mobs on him he could run to you and you could use Dark Talon followed up with ash field to save him.

My PvE Boss DK build will look something like this:

2h:

Cleave

Critical Charge

Inferno

Momentum

Immoveable

Magma Armor

S&S:

Puncture

Low slash

ash field

dark talon

spiked armor

magma armor

The 2h is your AoE set up with cleave and inferno (which deals dmg, inflicts burning (200%) and slows)

S&S: you have low slash which reduces the damage of the boss which means everyone takes less dmg and slows, ash field which again saves the group from a lot of dmg and can even save them for 4s of all dmg if someone uses the synergy effect. Dark Talon is a AoE dmg + AoE immobilize and puncture makes sure that the boss hits you.

 

If you're in a situation where there's AOE damage, you most likely don't want to be out of your S&S bar...that'd be a sure-death, meaning your first bar's pointless, especially as the tank... where single-target quickness will be required to overcome certain mechanics.

 

Ash Field + Dark Talons is a waste to take both of, Ash Field's so much better. Double Magma Armor is a waste. Ash Field + Dark Talons might be a waste completely for a "boss tank", even independently of each other in boss fights-- on boss fights I get the feeling they won't be CC-able and their attacks won't be able to miss or be passively dodged...but that's just an assumption from other games.

 

 

 

It would help if u wrote ur thoughts about ur builds down.

f.E. same build irons was talking abt: Ash field is almost useless if u dont have any gapcloser to get into enemys or save ur healer from those 2 melees poundering on him. I also would take an Ardent Flame skill into the 2nd skillbar for the Magma Armor movementslow.

 

Yeah, good call, as it is right now I'd have to bar-swap (which I wouldn't want to do in sticky situations) to get out fiery-reach (the problem is that there is no gap closer as a DK with S&S equipped).

 

I wish there was a way to take inferno on the S&S bar but it's not worth moving anything around for PVE tanking.

 

I'll work on getting a write-up for each build completed. It's a lot of writing (As you can see from this post) but it's also required when it comes to invisioning some of the builds working (as you can also see from this post, haha)

[irons]

I could take apart your post but it might could get personal and it also would get me a little bit upset.

 

So I won't.

 

I'm sorry that i critisized your build in the future I won't to it again.

But could you pls to me a favour and think your builds through before you post them.

Thx

[ghost5689]

This is kind of off topic,but i was really thinking about a build alot similar to the one in the quakecon footage(to be a templar but not to heal very much), but all u guys are picking dragon knight as your builds is their that much of a damaging difference?

[irons]

This is kind of off topic,but i was really thinking about a build alot similar to the one in the quakecon footage(to be a templar but not to heal very much), but all u guys are picking dragon knight as your builds is their that much of a damaging difference?

No.Musclemage had actually made some really nice Templer builds in the other thread, I think one of them was a little bit similar to the one in the quakecon video.DK is just my favourite class and will be my main in ESO that's why I mostly post DK builds but tomorrow I maybe sit down and create a Sorccerer build.

[ghost5689]

could you send me a link to the templar builds.

[irons]

could you send me a link to the templar builds.

it has to be somewhere in the min/max thread but I try to find it.

[irons]

Here: (was on page 14)

 

Templar – Heavy Armor – Bow/Resto – Orc

 

Bow

Solar Flare – M

Sun Fire – M

Piercing Javelin – M

Snipe – S

Rapid Maneuver – S

*Berserker Rage – U

 

Resto Staff

Sun Shield – M

Immovable – S

Rune Focus – M

Healing Ritual – M

Regeneration – M

*Barrier – U

 

there should be more templer builds like this in the old thread

[ghost5689]

thanks man,but in your and muscle magic opinions which do you think would be more powerful if i was a dunmer?

also waht ult is barrier lol.

[Musclemagic]

I could take apart your post but it might could get personal and it also would get me a little bit upset.

 

So I won't.

 

I'm sorry that i critisized your build in the future I won't to it again.

But could you pls to me a favour and think your builds through before you post them.

Thx

 

It might be a clash of goals we want to achieve with that DK build compared to your DK build, but I'd love for you to pick apart my post explaining why my build works...it's this constructive criticism that will get us better, I want everyone to critique the builds as much as possible, this is the only way that we'll get better/clearer build strategies. So, if you could explain where you're coming from, like I did, then it would help me (and everyone else) out?

 

I'm not trying to make it personal mate, the only criticism I put towards your build was supposed to be constructive, sorry if it offended you. I think that my build is a much better PVE build than yours, and I explained my reasoning.

 

I really did put a lot of thought into that setup (as you can see by my long explanation of it.) You're being the antagonist by jumping to conclusions that I didn't think about it, and making big claims that it's the worst DK build you've ever seen... So, if you could explain your reasoning behind your conclusions, we'd all benefit from it.

 

It could really be the worst DK build of all time for your goals, but until you tell me why... I do think it's the best possible dungeon tank with the abilities we have knowledge of.

[irons]

thanks man,but in your and muscle magic opinions which do you think would be more powerful if i was a dunmer?

If you are refering to the DK Fire dmg build than I would advise you to go with the Templer.

The problem with that DK build is that the DK is from his class skills a melee fighter and all the great fire abilities he has are all close range.

[Musclemagic]

thanks man,but in your and muscle magic opinions which do you think would be more powerful if i was a dunmer?

also waht ult is barrier lol.

 

If you plan on being Dunmer I think a melee-weapon'd DK is the way to go. +7% fire damage is a really big number.

 

You were looking for a Bow/DW Templar build, right? I've tried making a few of those and none of them came out very well, but that's because I always end up focusing more on the damage and turn it into a NB instead of a Temp because it synergizes so much better with Bow/DW spells.

 

I don't think that Dunmer's the best choice for Bow+DW+Templar though... Any reason you want dunmer or templar specifically? What armor are you wanting to use?

[irons]

Okay I personal think you have over done it with your dmg mitigation skills.With all your buffs you have only 7,5% more dmg mitigation than I have while you have a lower HP reg.Than Obsidian Shield really doesn't seem to be that great to me any more:Take a look a Conjured Ward (Sorccerer) it's quite similar to Obsidian Shield. If the OS also gains 11.5 times stronger at lvl 50 it will be to weak to be useful. Than you said that you would gain 15% stamina which I don't think is true, I think it's just 5%.Another thing is your otherbar is single target focused which you say is better than AoE. After my expierence however it's better to have AoE on you if single target is needed I would simply switch cleave for reverse slash.Than again you say that my bar is useless because I would die to quickly, but I still would have the buffs of Spiked Armor & Immoveable and if needed Ash Cload, even the effect of low slash stays up longer than obsidian shield, and that hotbar would be mainly for phases where you have to quickly kill of mobs which the boss spawned those mobs normaly don't hit to hard.Than your Breton logic is off. The Redguard has from all races the best ressource gain. He has 10% more stamina regs more stamina and gains stamina when he hits a mob (with a cooldown). Your Breton might has more magicka also 10% and reduced spell cost but you spam stamina abilities plus even if you would spam magicka attacks the Redguard would still have more ressources.Another thing Flurry.It's a channel, we know that if you click 3 times a light attack you have to wait until that chain of command is done. So I think it's fair to say that it will be the same with Flurry okay 1.3s isn't long it might could cause you problems.You said that you believe that you can't CC bosses.I agree in the way that I don't think that you can stun or knock them down but I think CC's like a immobilize or snare will work on them.I don't use low slash for the slow I use it it to reduce the dmg of the boss by 20% which effects the whole group.Dark Talon is on my bar so that I can make sure that enemies stay in my Ash Field plus it's an AoE.And if a healer has some mobs on him he can run to me I use Dark Talon the can't get away and he can buy himself some time.Searing Strike: That's a complicate case, I'm not sure that kindling will really improve searing strike, Searing heat apllies bruning effect to all fire abilities and I think that kindling only improves that burning effect.But that's just pure speculation.Than Dragon Leap for me that's a DPS skill you knockback enemies which for me is something I don't want as a Tankl. I want the mobs to be close to me so that I can take the dmg for the group.All in all your build lacks for me CC to really be able to keep enemies at you./Edit:I forgot to explain why Magma Armor is so great. It caps the incomming dmg at 3% of your max health but you also a 3% hp reg in combat. I'm going to use a HP reg build which means my reg will be way higher therefore I think in most cases using Magma Armor (whichs heals your HP/stamina/magicka) means that you outheal all incomming dmg. Magma Armor also deals fire dmg to nearby enemies which means that Magma Armor also uses all the passives of Ardent Flame, 12% more dmg inflict burning whichs deals + 200% dmg and even slows.

[Musclemagic]

Okay I personal think you have over done it with your dmg mitigation skills.With all your buffs you have only 7,5% more dmg mitigation than I have while you have a lower HP reg.

 

To get those numbers you'd need to be using both your bars at once, which doesn't seem possible because you're going to need to keep S&S on while tanking--mainly for the taunt. Somehow I'm not seeing the higher HP Reg? You mean the 5% extra from taking Dark Talons? :S

 

Than Obsidian Shield really doesn't seem to be that great to me any more:Take a look a Conjured Ward (Sorccerer) it's quite similar to Obsidian Shield. If the OS also gains 11.5 times stronger at lvl 50 it will be to weak to be useful. Than you said that you would gain 15% stamina which I don't think is true, I think it's just 5%.

 

I agree, OS isn't the best ability--but if it is going to give 5% ST per target then it's worth taking because there's not really a better option even if it is 5% capped then I'd probably take inferno there instead. @ 50 if it's 11.5x stronger then that's a 300 dmg shield on yourself (but the 40% stays for 750 total damage taken, since 40% of 750 = 300...so you only need to re-apply it on yourself every 750 damage, which is actually a lot since you'll be taking 56% less damage with the other two actives it turns into 40% off of the next 1340 damage taken... which is actually a huge amount of additional mitigation.

 

I was wrong about the math on Obsidian Shield before, because the damage bubble is taking damage at the same time as you, so it should be calculated as a damage bubble rather than a flat % mitigation.

 

Another thing is your otherbar is single target focused which you say is better than AoE. After my expierence however it's better to have AoE on you if single target is needed I would simply switch cleave for reverse slash.Than again you say that my bar is useless because I would die to quickly, but I still would have the buffs of Spiked Armor & Immoveable and if needed Ash Cload, even the effect of low slash stays up longer than obsidian shield, and that hotbar would be mainly for phases where you have to quickly kill of mobs which the boss spawned those mobs normaly don't hit to hard.

 

They're going to try to make this game have more strategy than just raw numbers, that will include a couple mechanics where you need to do as much AOE damage as possible--but I think this will be rare. Most the time you're going to have order-of-importance fights where you need to kill a certain target fast to make the rest of the fight easier. This is great when your partners can incapacitate other targets for a long period of time (Agony/Rune Prison/Power Bash type stuff) and then you can burn down a single-target before switching to tank bar and killing the rest of the mob.

 

You could be right, that AOE's needed more often, in which case I could put more AOE abilities on the bar and be fine..  This argument over AOE vs Single-Target being more important in PVE is very opinionated, since we have nothing to base it off of from ESO itself.

 

Your 2H bar's not useless, sorry, it's kind of..pointless though. What's the point of taking tank abilities on your DPS bar? In other games hybrid tanks don't work well in hard fights as much as coordinated groups with set roles do, I feel like you're too jumbled for a real PVE build..but that's just opinion too.

 

Than your Breton logic is off. The Redguard has from all races the best ressource gain. He has 10% more stamina regs more stamina and gains stamina when he hits a mob (with a cooldown). Your Breton might has more magicka also 10% and reduced spell cost but you spam stamina abilities plus even if you would spam magicka attacks the Redguard would still have more ressources.

 

Redguard has best ST resources, which is only used by Puncture on my S&S bar and for Twin Slashes/Flurry on DW bar (that will only be used very rarely.)

 

Breton has the benefit of all mRes as well as MP +cheaper spells which is more important than ST by far for my build.

 

 

Another thing Flurry.It's a channel, we know that if you click 3 times a light attack you have to wait until that chain of command is done. So I think it's fair to say that it will be the same with Flurry okay 1.3s isn't long it might could cause you problems.

 

If channeling for 1.3s is too long then you shouldn't be trying to DPS at that moment, usually. I see where you're coming from, but it's the best single-target melee dmg ability out there. If it proves unusable for some reason then Entropy would be nice to throw on there with Searing Strike, Entropy, then Twin Slashes (with +15% dmg) before swapping bars would be awesome to help boost the first-target's kill speed.

 

EDIT--- Actually, should probably cast Entropy before Searing Strike, and then Twin Slashes. Not only does it last longer, so it should be cast first, but I just realized that the +15% damage only applies to Magic abilities (so wouldn't apply to Twin Slashes)

 

 

You said that you believe that you can't CC bosses.I agree in the way that I don't think that you can stun or knock them down but I think CC's like a immobilize or snare will work on them.I don't use low slash for the slow I use it it to reduce the dmg of the boss by 20% which effects the whole group.Dark Talon is on my bar so that I can make sure that enemies stay in my Ash Field plus it's an AoE.And if a healer has some mobs on him he can run to me I use Dark Talon the can't get away and he can buy himself some time.

 

Agreed, I think snares and roots will work on some (if not most) of them. That's true about Low Slash, I never thought about it like that for boss fights! I'm going to try to incorporate that somehow in my next tank build (probably a Sorc one since I never make Sorc builds)

 

I think Ash Field is better than Dark Talons in almost every way except for the AOE Dmg, but I'll leave the DPS to the DPS builds who are synergized up for it (Altmer+Sorce+Destro+Light Armor+Surge+Weakness to Elements = Lightning Splash doing so much more damage than you.) I believe it's better to just focus on the group survival while they focus on the killing.

 

 

Searing Strike: That's a complicate case, I'm not sure that kindling will really improve searing strike, Searing heat apllies bruning effect to all fire abilities and I think that kindling only improves that burning effect.But that's just pure speculation.Than Dragon Leap for me that's a DPS skill you knockback enemies which for me is something I don't want as a Tankl. I want the mobs to be close to me so that I can take the dmg for the group.All in all your build lacks for me CC to really be able to keep enemies at you./Edit:I forgot to explain why Magma Armor is so great. It caps the incomming dmg at 3% of your max health but you also a 3% hp reg in combat. I'm going to use a HP reg build which means my reg will be way higher therefore I think in most cases using Magma Armor (whichs heals your HP/stamina/magicka) means that you outheal all incomming dmg. Magma Armor also deals fire dmg to nearby enemies which means that Magma Armor also uses all the passives of Ardent Flame, 12% more dmg inflict burning whichs deals + 200% dmg and even slows.

 

Searing Strike is a really powerful DOT (I think it's the only pure DOT without utility) even if it doesn't get all the bonuses that it could, since my 1st bar goal is single-target killer it's a must-have.

 

Dragon Leap is definitely a good single-target killer, not only does it do a huge nuke but it also pushes back the other enemies so that you can focus on killing the main target before swapping to S&S.

 

As for CC, I'd hope that one of the DPS or the Heals has a long-incapacitate. CC'ing to keep them on me isn't necessary except for in large groups, which as long as I can get close enough to them in Ash Field I'll have time to Puncture them all anyways--same goal as your one CC that's redundant IMO (Dark Talons).

 

Magma armor's good, definitely. Your bars are both so similar though... I don't think the goal of your two bars are different enough to warrant having them both. You can get rid of Low Slash and Dark Talon on your S&S bar, move down Immovable and take either Inferno or Obsidian shield as well on that bar.. There's your complete tank build, better than either one of your tank-bars alone. And, viola, you have a whole extra bar for doing a real amount of AOE damage or for doing anything else you'd like.

 

Our S&S bars aren't that much different, you realize, just Low Slash and Dark Talons for Immovable and Obsidian Shield... I think it's a much better tank-bar, and then you can improve your AOE bar (since I think it's possible that AOE damage could be just as important as single-target, it's a good idea) to actually do enough AOE damage to be beneficial to the group-- Maybe take Molten Weapons as well to help the group's total DPS since your goal of this bar is to help clear trash mobs.

 

I am not trying to trash-talk you, we're both thinking similar thoughts--it's just your 2h bar needs more focus rather than trying to be hybrid 2h/Tank for no reason (since you have an actual tank bar already--and you're not using it to it's fully tanky potential either.) You know?

[Musclemagic]

In case you guys didn't notice the edit, I've put my favorite build in the 1st post of this thread. It's the one I'd like to hear critique of, if you're planning on constructively criticizing one of the builds, please do that one. The other 5 I posted up there are mostly to give people ideas. Thanks!

[irons]

To get those numbers you'd need to be using both your bars at once, which doesn't seem possible because you're going to need to keep S&S on while tanking--mainly for the taunt. Somehow I'm not seeing the higher HP Reg? You mean the 5% extra from taking Dark Talons? :S I agree, OS isn't the best ability--but if it is going to give 5% ST per target then it's worth taking because there's not really a better option even if it is 5% capped then I'd probably take inferno there instead. @ 50 if it's 11.5x stronger then that's a 300 dmg shield on yourself (but the 40% stays for 750 total damage taken, since 40% of 750 = 300...so you only need to re-apply it on yourself every 750 damage, which is actually a lot since you'll be taking 56% less damage with the other two actives it turns into 40% off of the next 1340 damage taken... which is actually a huge amount of additional mitigation. I was wrong about the math on Obsidian Shield before, because the damage bubble is taking damage at the same time as you, so it should be calculated as a damage bubble rather than a flat % mitigation. They're going to try to make this game have more strategy than just raw numbers, that will include a couple mechanics where you need to do as much AOE damage as possible--but I think this will be rare. Most the time you're going to have order-of-importance fights where you need to kill a certain target fast to make the rest of the fight easier. This is great when your partners can incapacitate other targets for a long period of time (Agony/Rune Prison/Power Bash type stuff) and then you can burn down a single-target before switching to tank bar and killing the rest of the mob. You could be right, that AOE's needed more often, in which case I could put more AOE abilities on the bar and be fine..  This argument over AOE vs Single-Target being more important in PVE is very opinionated, since we have nothing to base it off of from ESO itself. Your 2H bar's not useless, sorry, it's kind of..pointless though. What's the point of taking tank abilities on your DPS bar? In other games hybrid tanks don't work well in hard fights as much as coordinated groups with set roles do, I feel like you're too jumbled for a real PVE build..but that's just opinion too. Redguard has best ST resources, which is only used by Puncture on my S&S bar and for Twin Slashes/Flurry on DW bar (that will only be used very rarely.) Breton has the benefit of all mRes as well as MP +cheaper spells which is more important than ST by far for my build.  If channeling for 1.3s is too long then you shouldn't be trying to DPS at that moment, usually. I see where you're coming from, but it's the best single-target melee dmg ability out there. If it proves unusable for some reason then Entropy would be nice to throw on there with Searing Strike, Entropy, then Twin Slashes (with +15% dmg) before swapping bars would be awesome to help boost the first-target's kill speed. EDIT--- Actually, should probably cast Entropy before Searing Strike, and then Twin Slashes. Not only does it last longer, so it should be cast first, but I just realized that the +15% damage only applies to Magic abilities (so wouldn't apply to Twin Slashes)  Agreed, I think snares and roots will work on some (if not most) of them. That's true about Low Slash, I never thought about it like that for boss fights! I'm going to try to incorporate that somehow in my next tank build (probably a Sorc one since I never make Sorc builds) I think Ash Field is better than Dark Talons in almost every way except for the AOE Dmg, but I'll leave the DPS to the DPS builds who are synergized up for it (Altmer+Sorce+Destro+Light Armor+Surge+Weakness to Elements = Lightning Splash doing so much more damage than you.) I believe it's better to just focus on the group survival while they focus on the killing.  Searing Strike is a really powerful DOT (I think it's the only pure DOT without utility) even if it doesn't get all the bonuses that it could, since my 1st bar goal is single-target killer it's a must-have. Dragon Leap is definitely a good single-target killer, not only does it do a huge nuke but it also pushes back the other enemies so that you can focus on killing the main target before swapping to S&S. As for CC, I'd hope that one of the DPS or the Heals has a long-incapacitate. CC'ing to keep them on me isn't necessary except for in large groups, which as long as I can get close enough to them in Ash Field I'll have time to Puncture them all anyways--same goal as your one CC that's redundant IMO (Dark Talons). Magma armor's good, definitely. Your bars are both so similar though... I don't think the goal of your two bars are different enough to warrant having them both. You can get rid of Low Slash and Dark Talon on your S&S bar, move down Immovable and take either Inferno or Obsidian shield as well on that bar.. There's your complete tank build, better than either one of your tank-bars alone. And, viola, you have a whole extra bar for doing a real amount of AOE damage or for doing anything else you'd like. Our S&S bars aren't that much different, you realize, just Low Slash and Dark Talons for Immovable and Obsidian Shield... I think it's a much better tank-bar, and then you can improve your AOE bar (since I think it's possible that AOE damage could be just as important as single-target, it's a good idea) to actually do enough AOE damage to be beneficial to the group-- Maybe take Molten Weapons as well to help the group's total DPS since your goal of this bar is to help clear trash mobs. I am not trying to trash-talk you, we're both thinking similar thoughts--it's just your 2h bar needs more focus rather than trying to be hybrid 2h/Tank for no reason (since you have an actual tank bar already--and you're not using it to it's fully tanky potential either.) You know?

I have to disagree. You ingore lot's of my points and I'm sorry but I have the feeling that you just want to defend your build.A few examples:That Obsidian shield has a different describtion that they others doesn't matter, the dmg mitigation of the other skills to help you to keep up obsidian shield only works if you cast oblivion shield at the right position if it even works what we don't know. Your point for Breton was that it has more ressources than the others so you can spend more points on HP.If you take away adrenalin rush (which adds 34 stamina every 3s). than you compare 7 points which you gain per sec no matter if you use a skill or not with 3 points less per spell and a spell will also take 1s to use (animation). That's why I say your math is off.The taunt doesn't last 5s it lasts 10s (last time I checked it) that means I have plenty of time to switch the bar to use immoveable where I 'm not even sure that I need it because at the other bar I have 3 dmg mititgation skills alone. But the nice thing is that when I switch to my 2H that I'm able to deal more dmg.Than you say that Ash Field is better than Dark Talon, but I don't pick one over the other I use both. So I don't understand where you wanna go with that. And you say that I shouldn't focus on dmg because the group will do it where I agree but in the same post you say that I don't deal enough dmg.I have enough for me your build isn't really good and it seems that you think the same way over my build which is fine but I just no longer want to argue with you when you keep ingoring my points.PS I won't make any further comments on that build because I think I have allready said what I wanted to say

[Musclemagic]

I have to disagree. You ingore lot's of my points and I'm sorry but I have the feeling that you just want to defend your build.

A few examples:

That Obsidian shield has a different describtion that they others doesn't matter, the dmg mitigation of the other skills to help you to keep up obsidian shield only works if you cast oblivion shield at the right position if it even works what we don't know.

Your point for Breton was that it has more ressources than the others so you can spend more points on HP.

If you take away adrenalin rush (which adds 34 stamina every 3s). than you compare 7 points which you gain per sec no matter if you use a skill or not with 3 points less per spell and a spell will also take 1s to use (animation). That's why I say your math is off.

The taunt doesn't last 5s it lasts 10s (last time I checked it) that means I have plenty of time to switch the bar to use immoveable where I 'm not even sure that I need it because at the other bar I have 3 dmg mititgation skills alone. But the nice thing is that when I switch to my 2H that I'm able to deal more dmg.

Than you say that Ash Field is better than Dark Talon, but I don't pick one over the other I use both. So I don't understand where you wanna go with that.

And you say that I shouldn't focus on dmg because the group will do it where I agree but in the same post you say that I don't deal enough dmg.

I have enough for me your build isn't really good and it seems that you think the same way over my build which is fine but I just no longer want to argue with you when you keep ingoring my points.

PS I won't make any further comments on that build because I think I have allready said what I wanted to say

 

I quoted every single one of your points and addressed them... I'll do it again--

 

:That Obsidian shield has a different describtion that they others doesn't matter, the dmg mitigation of the other skills to help you to keep up obsidian shield only works if you cast oblivion shield at the right position if it even works what we don't know.

 

It can only take so much damage, you said it isn't as good as say... Conjured Ward which is a 24 point bubble for you and pets, but OS is a 26 point bubble for yourself and 13 for everyone else even though it only absorbs 40% instead of 100% it doesn't change that it's a bubble that is absorbing damage rather than a mitigation ability, meaning it scales like a heal rather than a mitigation... but okay, I already said that if OS turns out to not be good, I'd use Inferno instead.

 

Your point for Breton was that it has more ressources than the others so you can spend more points on HP.

If you take away adrenalin rush (which adds 34 stamina every 3s). than you compare 7 points which you gain per sec no matter if you use a skill or not with 3 points less per spell and a spell will also take 1s to use (animation). That's why I say your math is off.

 

Yeah, I know they have the best ST regen. The problem is that ST isn't as required as MP for this build, so getting more MP is worth more. And, you're ignoring the mRes, which directly benefits tanking--the whole point of being Breton is for the mRes (assuming it scales.)

 

Being Breton or Redguard isn't a big difference though anyway, they're both fine.

 

The taunt doesn't last 5s it lasts 10s (last time I checked it) that means I have plenty of time to switch the bar to use immoveable where I 'm not even sure that I need it because at the other bar I have 3 dmg mititgation skills alone. But the nice thing is that when I switch to my 2H that I'm able to deal more dmg.

 

I don't think I ever said 5s taunt.. but yeah, you can switch bars after you puncture everything if you really want...except it defeats the purpose of being a tank to begin with. The extra damage you do isn't worth it compared to a DPS build and by trying to do that extra damage you are making your build impossible to use as well as you should be able to...

 

Than you say that Ash Field is better than Dark Talon, but I don't pick one over the other I use both. So I don't understand where you wanna go with that.

And you say that I shouldn't focus on dmg because the group will do it where I agree but in the same post you say that I don't deal enough dmg.

 

There's not enough room on the bar for 2 skills that are so similar... You say you'll use them together but to what purpose? You can use one or the other, and Ash Field is better so you should use it instead of Dark Talons.

 

You don't deal enough damage to justify being a 2h-tank. Why not be a GOOD tank and then have a GOOD dps build when the situation requires DPS?? This is the confusing part to me. 

 

PS I won't make any further comments on that build because I think I have allready said what I wanted to say

 

Well, that's a shame. I'd like to hear the reasons.

 

If you change your mind--While trying to find an actual flaw or something that could be better with my build-- I do ask that you address some of the points I made with quotes rather than things that I never said.  If you have a reason for my build being bad, or even the worst pve dk tank build ever, then please share so I can correct it.

[irons]

Sorccerer Healer Build:

Weapon Restoration Staff

Race: Breton (best DC mage class)

 

Hotbar 1:

Regenerate

Grand Healing

Blessing of Protection

Dark Exchange

Entropy

 

HotBar 2:

Regenerate

Grand Healing

Blessing of Protection

Lightning Form

Encase

 

For the ultimate I would go with overload.

 

I think the build is pretty much self explaining. The first bar is your standart bar where you have 2 abilities which help you to keep up your magicka. Dark Exchange makes sure that your base Stamina isn't wasted.

The second bar is for situations where you are under pressure, there you use Lightning Form to reduce the dmg and Encase to immobilize your enemies to buy your Tank enough time to take care of the mobs.

[Rally]

Sorccerer Healer Build:

Weapon Restoration Staff

Race: Breton (best DC mage class)

 

Hotbar 1:

Regenerate

Grand Healing

Blessing of Protection

Dark Exchange

Entropy

 

HotBar 2:

Regenerate

Grand Healing

Blessing of Protection

Lightning Form

Encase

 

For the ultimate I would go with overload.

 

I think the build is pretty much self explaining. The first bar is your standart bar where you have 2 abilities which help you to keep up your magicka. Dark Exchange makes sure that your base Stamina isn't wasted.

The second bar is for situations where you are under pressure, there you use Lightning Form to reduce the dmg and Encase to immobilize your enemies to buy your Tank enough time to take care of the mobs.

Hmm i don't think you will need both Entropy and Dark exchange in one skillbar. If i had to chose one skill to remove, it'll be Entropy, because i doubt Might of the Guild will enhance healing skills. Otherwise I could just doubletap Entropy and get 15% more Magicka.

I would also switch Blessing of Protection for Steadfast Wand in one skillbar for the situation, where you'll need an oh shit button for single target protection.Overload should work nice with Essence Drain/Cycle of Life

[Rally]

On the topic of healerbuilds:I think there is no other way to build a good healer, than to take a Templar with Cleansing Ritual. It's apart from Purge the only skill, which can dispell. And Purge seems pretty expensive. The Restoring Light passivs boost your healing too much, to not consider using them.The problem will be Magicka regen with a Templar.

[Musclemagic]

 

On the topic of healerbuilds:

I think there is no other way to build a good healer, than to take a Templar with Cleansing Ritual. It's apart from Purge the only skill, which can dispell. And Purge seems pretty expensive. The Restoring Light passivs boost your healing too much, to not consider using them.
The problem will be Magicka regen with a Templar.

 

I agree that Focused Healer is a game-breaker for heals, I think it will be nerfed substantially. I think dispels will be good because it makes the enemy need to recast DOTs or DOT builds get rendered useless..but other than this and Daedric Curse it's not a real necessity to take. DOTs don't seem that OP so I don't think it's a huge problem, but it's definitellyyyy nice to have! Haha!

 

I think DK can make a pretty good healer by giving the group some good buffs, mitigation, and then two heals and another buff from the Resto line, like this build here:

 

 

*UPDATED 10-26-'13* Dunmer – DK – Heavy – DW + Resto - PVP + PVE

DW- Strategy = Attack order: Fiery Reach > Entropy > Searing Strike > Twin Strikes > Flurry Spam until dead. Goal = Single Target Killin!!

• [*]

Fiery Reach – M (Bring them in)

[*]

Entropy - N/A (DOT + Magicka + 15% next magic dmg ability)

[*]

Searing Strike – M (single-target DOT)

[*]

Twin Strikes - S (single-target Dmg + DOT)

[*]

Flurry – S (single-target spam)

[*]

Soul Strike - U (Single-target heavy DOT)

Resto- Strategy = Keep the group buffed  Goal = Group battle support!

• [*]

Obsidian Shield - M (Absorbs %dmg taken by all friendlies in area)

[*]

Molten Weapons - M  (Buffs friendlies in the area's Power)

[*]

Blessing of Protection - M  (+Armor and +Resistances for friendly's in area)

[*]

Regeneration - M (Small heal + HOT) I wish I could take Dragon Blood or Spiked Armor here to increase self-healing received by 12%(huge) but it doesn't fit.. Maybe take Spiked Shield instead of Molten Weapons and move Molten Weapons up to bar 1 instead of Flurry.

[*]

Grand Healing - M (Hopefully, between the buffs and spiked armor, this is the only heal that your party will need.)

[*]

Magma Armor – U (Perfect for group battles! *Oh Sh!t button+Big damage*)

 

But when it comes to actual healing power, nothin but Temp!!

 

 

@ Irons, I want to clear the water--

I'm sorry that I got all butt-hurt over what you said. XD It made me say things about your build that I didn't entirely mean. I do actually like your DK build a lot.

 

It's only affected me because I respect you. I know it's just one build, but there are a few statements you said that really wounded my pride. [paraphrased but not exhaggarated] 1) "My build's the worst dk pve tank build you've ever seen" - This is just asinine. 2) "That I didn't think about this build before posting it." - Of course I did. & "Because people respect my builds, I shouldn't have posted such a bad build." - This build's great...so...no. 3) "I ignored all of your points" – Simply wrong; in fact I thoroughly addressed every single thing you said, so that's ludicrous. It's especially ludicrous because you're the one who kept choosing not to address any of my points that I tried hard to explain. I felt like you weren't giving me enough information to warrant any of your points, I couldn't see your reasoning. I should have asked for clarification though, before I tried to defend things.

 

 

Of course, the main reason that those are such ridiculous statements is because my build's nearly the same as yours. The few exceptions are that you're using Low Slash instead of Immovable and I'm using Obsidian Shield instead of Dark Talons on our S&S bars. Our DPS is similar, too, mine doesn't have a tank ability in it and mine's single target while yours is aoe. Since they're so similar, I don't see why you hate my build so much,

 

I would have listened to your points more if you would have tried to give alternatives. The only thing that it felt like you tried to give alternates for while you were dissecting my build was my choice of Race. You actually made me think I might go with Dunmer instead of Breton on this build though, so thank you.

 

I gave you my reasons to put Obsidian Shield on your S&S bar instead of Dark Talons. This is the only recommendation that I'd make for your build, other than this I think it's as perfect as it can get other than focusing the DPS bar with another DPS ability instead of Immovable. The debate between AOE vs Single Target doesn't matter, both will be needed in certain situations so both are just as good of a choice unless we find out otherwise.

 

I'm trying to be constructive with your build by saying that one small change might make your tanking go a bit smoother, and that is by trading Talons for Obsidian. Another thing that may or may not be beneficial-depending on how important it is to overcome incapacitates in PVE-would be to switch Low Slash with Immovable, but then I saw your point that Low Slash affects the whole group—so I think that's the better choice for sure! Good call! I also think you should use Molten Weapons instead of Immovable on your 2H bar to give it more focus as a damage bar, but that's probably not too important.

 

(Low Slash makes me realize that Summon Shade is really good to have in dungeons as a NB because it helps the whole group take less damage! I'll need to remember this while consulting my NB leveling partner. ^^)

 

If it was anyone else, I wouldn't care if they said those things about this build.. But, honestly, for the purpose of this build (PVE dungeon tanking > Single-target DPS) it's actually a really really good build.. so I just don't think your statements weren't warranted.

 

I sincerely apologize for any emotional rises I may have caused, and for the ones that I clearly had while replying to your posts before. I really do like your build and I'm only trying to be constructive. I hope you can see why I was immediately upset by your statements though.

 

For real, I'm sorry for the rise in temperature.

 

 

 

 

PS - Just updated my planned build in Original Post to:

DW –

• [*]

Focused Charge

[*]

Twin Slashes

[*]

Entropy

[*]

Sun Fire

• [*]

Solar Flare

[*]

Warhorn (Nova in PVE)

Resto –

• [*]

Immovable

[*]

Rune Focus

[*]

Blessing of Protection

[*]

Cleansing Ritual

[*]

Healing Ritual

[*]

Barrier (Right of Passage in PVE)

[irons]

Hmm i don't think you will need both Entropy and Dark exchange in one skillbar. If i had to chose one skill to remove, it'll be Entropy, because i doubt Might of the Guild will enhance healing skills. Otherwise I could just doubletap Entropy and get 15% more Magicka.

I would also switch Blessing of Protection for Steadfast Wand in one skillbar for the situation, where you'll need an oh shit button for single target protection.Overload should work nice with Essence Drain/Cycle of Life

Entropy is something you would use at all time to gain that extra magicka reg, Dark Exchange is really more of a oh shit I'm out of magicka button. I don't want to channel it for anything more than 2 sec, because while I'm channeling I'm unable to heal others.

 

I don't really like Steadfast Wand because it's a bit random, and Blessing of protection is a cone heal plus gives armor and spell resist that which I think is really nice. My target is to not come in a situation where a skill like Steadfast Wand would be useful.

 

 

The restoring light ablities from the templer only effect skill from restoring light.

The advantage I see for a Sorccerer compared to a Templer is that he has more magicka reg and that his spell cost less.

Of course the Templer also has advantages over the Sorccerer but personally I don't really like the Templer class.

 

 

 

@Musclemagic

 

I'm also sorry that things got a little bit out of hands.

What I said was too harsh and I want to excuse myself for dissing your build.

[Rally]

Didn't the Nobel price go to some IT guy who invented the PM function for forums? I guess it was sometime around the early 90's....Such a great idea!!

 

 

Play PvP without any kind of dispell and u'll get facerolled...

 

@irons:I overred the only effects restoring light ability part :(Steadfast Wand is a ~600 HP shield, when close to 13%HP, plus this also depends on how this skill is effected by +% healing.

[Musclemagic]

 

Play PvP without any kind of dispell and u'll get facerolled...

 

 

This is highly possible, and probably why they put it in the PVP - Support tree.

 

This healer might be alright though, and hope that someone else has purge or a temp's around:

DK, Argonian, Heavy Armor, Restoration Staff = 26% increased healing taken + the ability to heal with high damage mitigation = heals are a big deal for this build.

 

Resto-

-Blessing of Protection

-Spiked Armor

-Obsidian Shield

-Grand Healing

-Regeneration

-Magma Armor

DW-

-Fiery Reach

-Entropy

-Searing Strike

-Twin Slashes

-Inferno

-Soul Strike

[irons]

Play PvP without any kind of dispell and u'll get facerolled...

My build was for PvE only