Mechanics Questions

[ghost5689]

great point muscle that definitely answers it (sounds like a shoddycast question to mee.) 

[Musclemagic]

Some of you don't like to read anything but Mechanics threads, so:

The difference between Light, Medium, and Heavy armor for mitigation seems to be about-- 22.5%, 37.5%, 49%

 

The difference is really big, but this isn't enough to justify pure Heavy on almost any of the caster builds. Immovable in PvP is amazing though, and almost every build will require it, meaning you need to wear at least 1 piece of Heavy but I'd recommend taking 2 because if you're going to take 1 you might as well take 2 to get a set bonus out of your gear. (But, this is only my advice right now because I assume that set-bonuses will be fairly strong.)

[Draconian]

So, which configuration would you guys think gives the better armor rating?

 

1. 5 light / 2 heavy (heavy for torso or shoulders and legs)

 

2. 5 medium / 2 light (light for boots and helmet)

 

Also, how would 5 light / 2 heavy compare to full medium?

[Musclemagic]

So, which configuration would you guys think gives the better armor rating?

 

1. 5 light / 2 heavy (heavy for torso or shoulders and legs)

 

2. 5 medium / 2 light (light for boots and helmet)

 

Also, how would 5 light / 2 heavy compare to full medium?

 

It depends on the individual pieces of armor. It's probably like Chest > Legs > Shoulders > Helmet > Boots > Gloves > Belt and Shield would be somewhere around the same as Legs.

 

The stats on items will also vary though (+15 hp on chests might only = +13 on legs, etc) so you don't always want like.. Heavy Chest & Legs with the rest being Light if the stats give + something that you want more of on Light.

 

If everything were even armor rating though, it would look like this:

 

full light = 4.2

5 light/2 medium = 5.0

5 light/2 heavy = 5.4

 

full medium = 7.0

5 medium/2 light = 6.2

5 medium/2 heavy = 7.4

 

full heavy = 8.4

5 heavy 2 light = 7.2

5 heavy 2 medium = 8.0

 

Shield = add 1.0

 

Again, this is only with all armor being equal, which isn't the case.

 

With the examples you gave I couldn't say, but I'd guess that because considering it with equal numbers 5 light and 2 heavy isn't much less than 5 medium 2 light that with 5 light and 2 of the big heavy pieces VS 5 medium and 2 of the small light pieces... I think it would come out pretty dang close.

 

edit: What build did you have in mind that uses 5 medium 2 light?

[Draconian]

http://eldersouls.com/topic/4653-the-templar-thread/page-2

 

This is the build which is giving me some headaches.

[irons]

 

The difference between Light, Medium, and Heavy armor for mitigation seems to be about-- 22.5%, 37.5%, 49%

Where did you get those numbers?

[yerion]

I have a question. Most healing abilities are "on lowest health ally in front of you" or "Heal nearby wounded ally". So how do you heal yourself? Maybe heal a nearby wounded ally also counts for yourself, but what about "in front of you"?

[Musclemagic]

I have a question. Most healing abilities are "on lowest health ally in front of you" or "Heal nearby wounded ally". So how do you heal yourself? Maybe heal a nearby wounded ally also counts for yourself, but what about "in front of you"?

 

Yeah, Steadfast Ward bothers me because I don't know if it effects yourself.. I think normally a wounded ally includes yourself, but for "in front of you"... idk, but I hope it includes yourself. I reckon it does.

 

I would wait for someone to actually answer, but we had a similar conversation a while back and I don't think anyone knew at that time either.

 

 

 

Random thoughts: How viable do you guys think setting up combos with people is? Molten Weapons, Puncture, Fiery Reach (with +40% weapon power morph) to pre-game... 

Let a Templar use Solar Flare, then Dragon Leap = dmg luls. Combining Solar Flare with things like Death Stroke and Dragon Leap has huge potential, even Uppercut and Solar Flare spamming is crazy to think about.

 

My question is how viable you guys think combos like that will be? I mean, obviously a sorc with a DK will want to use Weakness to Elements and such..but what about things that require a lot of coordination? Going to be a lot of it at endgame or probably not?

[yerion]

Depends if you are on skype with your teammates or not. Serious PVPers will play with coordinated groups. I want to join a serious PVP guild right before launch. But then I will defnitely start using those combos with my (5? man) squad.

[Musclemagic]

Depends if you are on skype with your teammates or not. Serious PVPers will play with coordinated groups. I want to join a serious PVP guild right before launch. But then I will defnitely start using those combos with my (5? man) squad.

 

I'm thinking of running a group of 8, it seems like the best number for efficiency without too much overlap. 2 of each class.

 

Yeah, that's what I'm so stoked about on PS4- super easy voice chat with any random. Going to be epic to have this as a healer.

 

It would be pretty cool to set these things up...your NB has 300 Ult and Death Stroke... Solar Flare an unsuspecting chump and watch them get to 50% in one hit and then be unable to heal because -75% healing, haha

[Draconian]

Random thoughts: How viable do you guys think setting up combos with people is? Molten Weapons, Puncture, Fiery Reach (with +40% weapon power morph) to pre-game... 

Let a Templar use Solar Flare, then Dragon Leap = dmg luls. Combining Solar Flare with things like Death Stroke and Dragon Leap has huge potential, even Uppercut and Solar Flare spamming is crazy to think about.

 

 

I think using the synergy between abilities like this is going to win PvP fights - those who are able to coordinate these things will be far more effective.

 

That's also why I think solar flare will be one of the ultimate support abilities. The increased damage effect from next attack doesn't seem to have a timer on it, so once hit, an enemy might be vulnerable permanently until an enemy strikes him. Imagine spamming this spell into a cluster**** and watch your tanks tear the enemies apart.

 

Lightning splash will also be epic for this if a sorcerer stands back and spams it into a crowd where friendlies can activate its synergy repeatedly.

 

When running in groups, you'd probably want to coordinate having some of these abilities which can be exploited by the team members for increased efficiency.

[yerion]

I think using the synergy between abilities like this is going to win PvP fights - those who are able to coordinate these things will be far more effective.

 

That's also why I think solar flare will be one of the ultimate support abilities. The increased damage effect from next attack doesn't seem to have a timer on it, so once hit, an enemy might be vulnerable permanently until an enemy strikes him. Imagine spamming this spell into a cluster**** and watch your tanks tear the enemies apart.

 

 

 

I also think comboing abilities like this will have a huge impact on pvp.

 

But about solar flare. People seem to forget it has a cast time. Casting can be very risky in pvp because of the melee bash interrupt that every player has, which means you get cc ed for a short period of time and this gives the enemy time to knock you down with a heavy attack.

That will not happen very often to good players, because they dont cast this when being attacked by a melee player, but there are also some ranged interupt spells that will stun you when interrupted.

 

Ok, i forgot about this. On Tamriel foundry it says the following:

While in active block mode, the player can shield (or weapon) bash by left clicking to interrupt enemy spell casting or to break free of crowd control effects.

This was also stated on ask us anything combat 2. I had completely forgotten about this. This makes cc effects so much less effective in pvp and it also makes stamina in pvp so much more important and it makes immovable less of a necessity.

[Musclemagic]

 

 

 

I also think comboing abilities like this will have a huge impact on pvp.

 

But about solar flare. People seem to forget it has a cast time. Casting can be very risky in pvp because of the melee bash interrupt that every player has, which means you get cc ed for a short period of time and this gives the enemy time to knock you down with a heavy attack.

That will not happen very often to good players, because they dont cast this when being attacked by a melee player, but there are also some ranged interupt spells that will stun you when interrupted.

 

Ok, i forgot about this. On Tamriel foundry it says the following:

While in active block mode, the player can shield (or weapon) bash by left clicking to interrupt enemy spell casting or to break free of crowd control effects.

This was also stated on ask us anything combat 2. I had completely forgotten about this. This makes cc effects so much less effective in pvp and it also makes stamina in pvp so much more important and it makes immovable less of a necessity.

 

 

I wish we had a number on how much breaking free costs, because it's probably not much cheaper than keeping Immovable up. With Immovable it means you can't be interrupted through incapacitates though too, so for casting builds it's even more worthwhile. The -

 

If you're using Flare in combat then you need to have that moment set up for sure, I think Spear Shards is the better choice for an actual DPS build on Templar.

 

At least you can move while casting in ESO, so if you take Volley and morph it to cause targets to be rooted then it will be a decent combo anyway. I know cast-times suck, but Healing Ritual as Templar is fine because of Rune Focus/Immovable and Flare in my build is fine because it won't be used in the $hits very often.

 

Anyway, when I initially asked, I really meant a build with Rune Focus + Flare on the same bar, it seems counter intuitive using something that reduces your damage with something that does damage... -25% to your Flare damage but then buffing the next attack by 40%? What do you guys think? Worth it, or do you think making a bar that uses both would ruin the rest of an otherwise functional build?

 

In short: Try to fit Flare on a cookie cutter Resto Staff bar without taking too much away from the build.. I don't like anything that I've been able to come up with so far but I was hoping someone else would be able to.

[Xenon]

Where did you get those numbers?

he just pulled them out of his behind. i have not seen anything that support his claim. building entire strategies around them numbers would be... waste.

[Musclemagic]

he just pulled them out of his behind. i have not seen anything that support his claim. building entire strategies around them numbers would be... waste.

 

The numbers were right here: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Argonian_Resistance  They're not there anymore, but I didn't just "pull it out of my behind."

 

As I already wrote: It read that 750 resistances was equal to 26% mitigation at clvl 50. The leap of faith that I made was that resistances and armor share the same coefficient. Either the numbers could be wrong straight up or it might not apply directly to armor rating, so yes, it might not be accurate.

But, the numbers seem pretty balanced, so I reckon it's not too far off--if it's wrong at all. Furthermore, nobody's going to build their entire strategy off of this. It just helps get an idea of armor-rating. When we have verified the actual armor-rating numbers, most builds won't change at all. The only way that builds would change based on new numbers is if ZOS has made it completely imbalanced--which I refuse to believe.

 

I've had disclaimers in my prior posts about this already, that it may be completely wrong. Thusly, your comment is nothing but an inconsequential piece of misguided self-ignorance. At least I'm trying to put two and two together to progress our idea-bank. There's been a lack of information lately, so you could at least respect my endeavors to find conclusions (that are easily justified). But, instead, you write shit about someone that you don't even know, based on nothing.

You might try a friendlier approach next time to state that you disagree, and then back it up with reasoning... If you are unable to see the benefit in this over things like, "I haven't seen it before! It's from his bumbum!!" then I'd suggest taking a few communication courses in argument building.

[Xenon]

going from 750 resistance = 26% mitigation

 

to

 

7 pieces of light armor = 22.5% mitigation,

7 pieces of medium armor =  37.5% mitigation

and 

7 pieces of heavy armor = 49% mitigation 

 

 

...is a pretty huge assumption on your part

 

If you are the slightest insecure about the accuracy of your number then maybe you should at least round it to one significant number (like Light ~20%, Medium ~40% and heavy ~50%)

[Draconian]

He did suggest elsewhere that full armor sets at max level would be around: 650 (light), 1000 (medium) and 1300 (heavy), so if 750 resistance equals 26% migitations, the numbers aren't far off - provideded the premise of the calculations is correct, of course.

 

Now, where I think these numbers might present a problem is with the speculation that armor rating will migitate any type of damage, be it physical or magical. The thing is, if you can have e.g. 1300 armor rating and add another 750 resistance on top of that, magical attacks seem to have a huge disadvatange over physical attacks. Not to mention that you can get a lot of spell resistance on top of that as well from racials and passives.

[yerion]

Yes Draconian, that is why I think armor will not mitigate spell damage. It never worked like this in any other elder scroll game (nor in most mmo's).

I also agree with musclemagic. We do not have much information at this point. To many people on this forum ask about "hard facts". Just read whole topic and see that this is all theory crafting mixed with specualtion. Reasons why this is better then waiting around for hard facts:

- This way people can share their ideas and maybe give others ideas about how the game could work ( I learned a few ways of how game mechanics could work, that I had not thought of myself).

- It keeps you busy. I, for instance, enjoy thinking about this game and theory crafting (even with uncertainties) is highly entertaining.

[Musclemagic]

going from 750 resistance = 26% mitigation

 

to

 

7 pieces of light armor = 22.5% mitigation,

7 pieces of medium armor =  37.5% mitigation

and 

7 pieces of heavy armor = 49% mitigation 

 

 

...is a pretty huge assumption on your part

 

If you are the slightest insecure about the accuracy of your number then maybe you should at least round it to one significant number (like Light ~20%, Medium ~40% and heavy ~50%)

 

The only assumption I personally made was that armor rating and magic resistance would have the same coefficients. Nothing else came from me personally. I'm not insecure about the accuracy of my math either, but of course I'm healthily skeptical of the accuracy of the numbers I used within those equations. I stated this before, the numbers could all be wrong. But, at least I'm searching for conclusions. This conclusion is reasonable, otherwise I wouldn't have posted it.

 

I appreciate skepticism, and I'm glad that people are aware that these number's aren't set in stone. If you're trying to give an opinion then emotion with no logic, credit, and without presenting other options, doesn't make for a very strong opinion.

 

Yes Draconian, that is why I think armor will not mitigate spell damage. It never worked like this in any other elder scroll game (nor in most mmo's).

I also agree with musclemagic. We do not have much information at this point. To many people on this forum ask about "hard facts". Just read whole topic and see that this is all theory crafting mixed with specualtion. Reasons why this is better then waiting around for hard facts:

- This way people can share their ideas and maybe give others ideas about how the game could work ( I learned a few ways of how game mechanics could work, that I had not thought of myself).

- It keeps you busy. I, for instance, enjoy thinking about this game and theory crafting (even with uncertainties) is highly entertaining.

 

Yeah, I wish we had an answer to this (if armor = all damage). One support for it is that magic abilities can't be blocked, so blocking's for melee and resistances is for magic, but this creates some potential balancing issues for PVP vs PVE. I guess both ways creates balancing issues though... I wish beta would just go public already, but (as your expectancy vs reality thread suggests) it honestly must not be ready for public eyes yet.

 

Haha, exactly! I only do this for entertainment, as I'm sure we all do at this point. I spend so much time thinking about this crap, lmao, it's ridiculous given how much it's bound to change still.

I do plan on livestreaming though, so it might be an investment of time that pays off at least a little bit... of course I thought the same thing about Diablo 3 RMAH.. what a bust! XD

[Terhix]

I want my Skyrim perk reducing spell damage while blocking with shield by half (there is one from mages guild, but it's just 15%).

[yerion]

Actually block reduces spell projectile damage (and ranged attacks). This amount mitigated can be increased by 15% by a passive in the sword and board skill line (not the mages guild). My source is ask us anything combat 2 (elderscrollsonline.com):

 

"Ranged physical attacks and spell projectiles can be mitigated with a block, but all other magic will go right through. You have the chance to interrupt some magic spells, though" 

 

This leaves us with the question, what are spell projectiles. Are those the normal and heavy attacks from destruction staff and resto staff? Or are they also single target spells (think of skyrim's icespike). I think they will mitigate both damage attacks with the two staves and from single target spells that do damage on impact.

 

This would change the whole problem with armor needing to mitigate magic.

[Draconian]

It could also be that armor rating actually does migitate magical damage but that the migitation calculations for magical attacks use a different variable.

[Musclemagic]

Actually block reduces spell projectile damage (and ranged attacks). This amount mitigated can be increased by 15% by a passive in the sword and board skill line (not the mages guild). My source is ask us anything combat 2 (elderscrollsonline.com):

 

"Ranged physical attacks and spell projectiles can be mitigated with a block, but all other magic will go right through. You have the chance to interrupt some magic spells, though" 

 

This leaves us with the question, what are spell projectiles. Are those the normal and heavy attacks from destruction staff and resto staff? Or are they also single target spells (think of skyrim's icespike). I think they will mitigate both damage attacks with the two staves and from single target spells that do damage on impact.

 

This would change the whole problem with armor needing to mitigate magic.

 

The bigger question for me is, Will those power attacks from bows and destro staffs cause the player to be set off-balance when they get blocked? This makes no sense, but I'm assuming they must-for balance issues. I don't really care whether armor mitigates all damage or not, I think it should because otherwise someone in light armor might be the best tank against magic damage...and that's just not cool, tanks should tank, haha

 

Anyway, I gotta go stand in line for an early PS4... stupid me and not pre-ordering...well, my buddy who works at Best Buy was going to preorder it for me with his discount but then he pussed out, so at least I have someone else to blame for the next 4 hours of freezing my butt off and having to poop. lol

[Draconian]

I also have a really hard time imagining that blocking would stun ranged attackers using power attacks. It would make better sense if blocking ranged attacks simply is easier because there isn't any significant physical force behind the attacks. It could be that blocking arrows and spell projectiles only costs a fraction of the stamina it costs to block a heavy melee attack.

[Draconian]

Does anyone know the Breton's magicka mastery value at level 50? Or want to hazzard a guess what it might be?