Mechanics Questions

[irons]

shoddycast. I guessed as much,but i will be able to download it on both my computers right.

Yes

[DocZero00]

Kind of of Topic:dont know where to ask because its literal mechanics.

 

They said you can have a max of 5 accounts,but can you download it on more than one PC

 

For example-i have a brother who wants eso to would it be possible for both of us to play if we buy one disc.

 

You can download or install the game on multi computers, but what you wont be able to do is play at the same time.

The problem will show up because you will have to put in the same eso game code each time you install it.

 

I think a clear way to think about it is, "You only have one account for all 5 characters slots that we may get".  So if you really want to have 5 accounts you would have to have 5 different game codes and pay for 5 monthly fees.

[Musclemagic]

...

what do you mean muscle, of course you can sneak attack same level mobs. you just have to... you know... sneak up on them first (you can also sneak attack them with a bow from long range). Nobody will spot you as long as nobody is looking in your general direction....

 

You won't be able to sneak attack same level mobs with melee weapons if you walk up in front of them. If you're behind someone, it changes what I said...like I said.

 

EDIT: Whoops! I guess I didn't mention that part, so thanks for adding that.

[Xenon]

The only way to reliably sneak attack someone at in melee range while they are looking in your general direction would be to use invisibility instead of sneak....

 

And you have to roll a Nightblade for access to the Shadow Cloak active ability and/or the Consuming Darkness ultimate ability (that also grant the synergy Slip Away to allies).

- The only two abilities in the game that grant Invisibility (at this point anyway, might or might not get an invisibility ability in a future Dark Brotherhood skill line)

[ghost5689]

If I were to activate a large dot,like Nova and swap skill bars would it continue to damage the foe?

[Musclemagic]

If I were to activate a large dot,like Nova and swap skill bars would it continue to damage the foe?

 

Irons and I both believe so. Any skill you use that lasts for a certain amount of time should stay on the target (friend or foe) whether you swap bars or not. It doesn't make any sense that it would disappear, it's not like if you do damage with an ability and then you swap your bars that the damage would go away--so a used effect shouldn't disappear either. But, this might be different for Ultimates for some reason... I mean, we don't even know if you can have two Ults at all! If there's only one Ult per the 2 bars, then it wouldn't disappear with a bar-swap.

 

But, for example, if you have Bound Armor or Siphoning Strikes "activated" then you switch bars, it would become inactive because it requires the skill to be on your bar.

[Xenon]

If I were to activate a large dot,like Nova and swap skill bars would it continue to damage the foe?

It might or might not continue. There are good arguments for both sides.

[irons]

If I were to activate a large dot,like Nova and swap skill bars would it continue to damage the foe?

Yes it will.I'm not aware if any game out there which did it different.It would require lot's of programming work + increased work for the server.Just think about how many dot's buffs 1 player could have on him, the server would have to constantly check the source of the buff/dot and if the source still has the skill on it's bar even for 1 player it cause server problems now think about a few hundret player. + AoE effects would ave to disappear and appear. It's just crazy.

[Rally]

weaponswitch seems to be one of esos main features. And u can't gimp it by removing a dot/hot when u switch bars.gw2 also was based on weaponswaps and the conditions didn't disappear.

[irons]

weaponswitch seems to be one of esos main features. And u can't gimp it by removing a dot/hot when u switch bars.gw2 also was based on weaponswaps and the conditions didn't disappear.

It's not just that.

 

1. doesn't add to the game it actually takes something away from the game

2. it's additional work to programm

3. it put's high pressure on the server

[Musclemagic]

I think my biggest caveat with the idea of effects disappearing on weapon swaps is that it's unrealistic... It's like, if you put a curse on someone in real life somehow then you change your clothes, the curse wouldn't go away unless it was a channeled curse. It just makes no sense to disappear. ZOS is all about emersion so they wouldn't do something like that.

[Oberon]

From a code and server standpoint, it's not that big of a deal.  If they want to remove buffs, pets, dots and so on when a player switches hot bars, the code only needs to do that when he actually switches hot bars--not all of the time.  It's pretty straightforward either way ZOS wants to go on this.

 

There are valid points of view on both sides, so we'll just have to wait for a tester to verify it directly.

[Xenon]

if buffs and debuffs dont vanish when you switch weapon, then you can have a "buff"/"debuff"/"support" weapon setup to trigger stuff like bound armor, fiery armor etc and then switch back to your DPS set-up while keeping all the defensive buffs active.

 

as i said; it might or might not work that way. there are good arguments both ways.

[Musclemagic]

if buffs and debuffs dont vanish when you switch weapon, then you can have a "buff"/"debuff"/"support" weapon setup to trigger stuff like bound armor, fiery armor etc and then switch back to your DPS set-up while keeping all the defensive buffs active.

 

as i said; it might or might not work that way. there are good arguments both ways.

 

Yeah, if buffs and such do stay on when you swap bars then Templars have a major disadvantage IMO. I really hope that the buffs DON'T stay on when we switch bars.

[Xenon]

mechanically there is little difference between buffs, debuffs, hots and dots.

 

buffs, debuffs, hots and dots might or might not vanish when you change weapon. 

there are good arguments for both sides.

 

they might or might also treat buffs, debuffs, hots and dots differently (...but why?)

[irons]

From what we know only skills without a duration disappear when we switch weapons and that's it.

[Musclemagic]

Based on the Quakecon vid, you can see that he Volley's, changes to DW right away, and it keeps going. However, it might cancel on things with effects that last over 10 seconds or something.. Otherwise I see no reason for not ever taking something like Molten Weapons on your secondary bar.

 

Also, the "cloaked" person we were talking about before who was staying cloaked for a long time was actually just a summoned Shade.

 

EDIT: Another person had his bow out at that time, so it might not have been Nick's Volley.

 

 

they might or might also treat buffs, debuffs, hots and dots differently (...but why?)

 

The only reason I can think of for treating them differently is because buffs seems to be more powerful than debuffs, so if you could buff/hot yourself without even taking up space on your main combat bar it could be overwhelming compared to someone who's trying to go pure offensive or something...

 

From what we know only skills without a duration disappear when we switch weapons and that's it.

 

I REALLY hope this isn't the case. Can you provide any evidence? If it is true, then PvP will be a nightmare for people who try to use both their bars independently.

[irons]

 I REALLY hope this isn't the case. Can you provide any evidence? If it is true, then PvP will be a nightmare for people who try to use both their bars independently.

Not out of first but that's what I was told by someone who has or had beta access, and it fits with an interview from nick konk.It's part of creating a good build which supports both of your bars.

[ghost5689]

Why do you think that is soo bad muscle...

[Musclemagic]

Why do you think that is soo bad muscle...

 

Because it will turn people's second bar into a buff bar rather than a bar for different situations, meaning people will only be really good at one specific thing. This isn't necessarily bad in itself, but it means that specific things in the game will be better than other specific things due to the amount of activated duration-type abilities.

 

You'll see what I mean if I list the skills that each class can benefit from if this is true, rather than having to spread things out over one bar at a time for a specific purpose just for that bar alone (I'll only include things with a duration over 10s, because anything under 8s duration probably isn't worth the bar swap) ---

DK-

Spiked Armor

Dragon Blood

Molten Weapons

Obsidian Shield

Petrify

Ash Field

 

Sorc-

Rune Prison

Daedric Mines

Familiar

Twilight

Ward

Surge

 

NB-

Blur

Haste

Mark Target

Path of Darkness

Summon Shade

Agony

Drain Power

Strife

Cripple (8.5s, close)

 

Now...for the templar... You'll see why using one bar for buffs isn't very fair:

Cleansing Ritual

Rune Focus

Spear Shards

 

Now, I get that having a healer class is good. But, those 3 abilities don't really synergize very well on a secondary bar..so you're either using Cleansing Ritual and Rune Focus as a healer, or you're using Spear Shards as a DPS. You can't just throw some passives on a second bar that will boost your first bar, the bars will be very individualized if you go templar and heal...which is fine if you want to be a healer, but not if you don't want to heal as Temp.

 

Which, brings me to weapon choices:

 

Resto Staff-

Regeneration

Force Siphon

Steadfast Ward

 

2H-

Momentum

Cleave

 

Shield-

Puncture

Power Bash

 

Destro Staff-

Weakness to Elements

 

DW/Bow-

None

 

Unless you're using DW as main weapon, it's not that good. Bow passives are decent, but you need to keep it on your main bar for those passives, and they don't synergize too well with anything specifically. Bow's going to only be usable as a weird main weapon combo'd with something else... Yeah, it's ranged...woohoo. idk, I feel like the bow's lackluster right now. The run speed's cool, and the damage passives are decent, but it's hard for me to imagine it being that great at the moment.

 

Medium Armor-

Evasion

 

Light Armor-

Annulment (Time is a variable)

 

Heavy Armor-

Immovable (8s, but w/e)

 

I think the armor's pretty good, I just think that Annulment shouldn't cost as much magicka as it does. I think it should be "toggled" to take 50% magic damage as magicka..in which case it wouldn't work on a buff-bar anyway. But, it's not like that, so it doesn't matter. XD I don't like Light Armor's active to begin with--although I'm sure in some dungeons it'll be easier for a light-armor to tank a boss with high magic damage at some point..interesting option anyway, idk.

 

My point is, that a pure-healer templar (which seems to be the most valid templar build atm) will probably want to wear light armor...but light armor sucks so bad against melee.. bleh.

 

 

It's hard to say still, because it's just in my head, but my opinions is that if people are able to keep buffs/debuffs when they swap bars then templars are screwed with the way things are right now if they don't go healer..and even then, it'll be rough.

 

 

 

TLDR: It limits people's choices a lot if they want to be any good. It's fun to make each of your bars good by themselves, but your second bar comes down to what Duration Spells you have access to, or else your main bar won't be as good as other people's main bars...and your 2 bars in conjunction will NOT catch up to the good people's main bars that synergize with their buff bars. It's just not possible for someone who's reaping the benefits of both bars to lose to someone who only has one bar they can utilize at a time due to not having Duration spells that benefit their bar in use.

[DocZero00]

I would have to say, the devs set templars as healers because it has to do with balancing class issues.

They may have been OP when given to many skills options during their past test?

[yerion]

Because it will turn people's second bar into a buff bar rather than a bar for different situations, meaning people will only be really good at one specific thing. This isn't necessarily bad in itself, but it means that specific things in the game will be better than other specific things due to the amount of activated duration-type abilities.

 

 

I do not know if this is the case. Think about the disadvantages of only having buffs on one bar to support your second bar:

 

- Before entering a fight you have to spend more then 5 seconds buffing yourself, 1 second to weapon swap before you can do something to your opponent. This is impossible when you get ambushed. It might be useful for a ranged player in an AvA, but remember that 6 seconds of the duration of your first ability are allready gone.

-  Then there is the cost for casting all the buffs. Placing 5 buffs on yourself will most likely deplete your resources (maybe 3 will even deplete all your magicka), making you pretty useless for another few seconds. This might not be a problem when you have alot of regeneration. But if you have a high regen stats, you will lack damage and probably spam one or two AoE damage spells, leaving you a few open slots for buffs spells anyway.

- Having 2 roles in an AvA battle can be game changing. I would rather have bow based character, who can swap to healer if I see that my front line is getting mowed down. (Also a good way to use both stamina and magicka resources).

 

Taking all this into account, I do not think that it will be overpowered in PVP. It might be good in certain builds though.

 

offtopic: This is my first post and I wanted to say that I really loved reading all the theory crafting in every topic(especially the posts of Musclemagic and Irons).

[Musclemagic]

 

 

I do not know if this is the case. Think about the disadvantages of only having buffs on one bar to support your second bar:

 

- Before entering a fight you have to spend more then 5 seconds buffing yourself, 1 second to weapon swap before you can do something to your opponent. This is impossible when you get ambushed. It might be useful for a ranged player in an AvA, but remember that 6 seconds of the duration of your first ability are allready gone.

-  Then there is the cost for casting all the buffs. Placing 5 buffs on yourself will most likely deplete your resources (maybe 3 will even deplete all your magicka), making you pretty useless for another few seconds. This might not be a problem when you have alot of regeneration. But if you have a high regen stats, you will lack damage and probably spam one or two AoE damage spells, leaving you a few open slots for buffs spells anyway.

- Having 2 roles in an AvA battle can be game changing. I would rather have bow based character, who can swap to healer if I see that my front line is getting mowed down. (Also a good way to use both stamina and magicka resources).

 

Taking all this into account, I do not think that it will be overpowered in PVP. It might be good in certain builds though.

 

offtopic: This is my first post and I wanted to say that I really loved reading all the theory crafting in every topic(especially the posts of Musclemagic and Irons).

 

 

Heya! Welcome, and thanks for the great post!

 

EDITED(for clarity): The only thing that having buffs/debuffs stay would give are advantages for specific builds. It might not be a huge advantage, but it's an unfair advantage that they can't balance around without messing a lot up for casual players who aren't thinking about that (Because if you were to weaken the numbers of some thing, just because they're too good in conjuction with specific things like maybe Haste + Momentum, while someone using DW doesn't have Momentum...I mean, it's okay if it takes up a place on your bar, but if Haste is just an extra spot on another bar--and even if you can only use it for ~15 seconds because the first 2 seconds get eaten and you don't have time to re-apply it in combat, it's still a big advantage). I guess that's the whole point though, to add diversity and such, making people think more about synergy...but it seems unfair for builds that don't have the ability to do so, simply because their class or weapon choice isn't good for it. It'll turn people cookie-cutter in no time for their class, because there'll always arise a perfect synergy system that gives the maximum buffs for that class. For example, Templar passives for healing are pretty beastly as they are...so it might end up being balanced anyway if someone does takes healing as their 2ndary, or even off-healing..but do you see how they're kind of forced into that role? XD But, who cares about noobs anyway?!! No matter what it ends up being like, we're going to come up with some kick ass builds either way! ^.^

 

PS- Playing on PS4?!

 

 

Something I never noticed before: I think 750 resistance or armor rating is equal to 26% additional damage mitigation through either armor or resistances. I'm sure there's a soft cap on it somewhere though, guessing @ ~1200 would be the first soft-cap. Anyway, that 750=26% number will help us make some builds later on. (#'s are for cLvl 50.)

[yerion]

 

EDITED(for clarity): The only thing that having buffs/debuffs stay would give are advantages for specific builds. It might not be a huge advantage, but it's an unfair advantage that they can't balance around without messing a lot up for casual players who aren't thinking about that (Because if you were to weaken the numbers of some thing, just because they're too good in conjuction with specific things like maybe Haste + Momentum, while someone using DW doesn't have Momentum...I mean, it's okay if it takes up a place on your bar, but if Haste is just an extra spot on another bar--and even if you can only use it for ~15 seconds because the first 2 seconds get eaten and you don't have time to re-apply it in combat, it's still a big advantage). I guess that's the whole point though, to add diversity and such, making people think more about synergy...but it seems unfair for builds that don't have the ability to do so, simply because their class or weapon choice isn't good for it. It'll turn people cookie-cutter in no time for their class, because there'll always arise a perfect synergy system that gives the maximum buffs for that class. For example, Templar passives for healing are pretty beastly as they are...so it might end up being balanced anyway if someone does takes healing as their 2ndary, or even off-healing..but do you see how they're kind of forced into that role? XD But, who cares about noobs anyway?!! No matter what it ends up being like, we're going to come up with some kick ass builds either way! ^.^

 

Yes, good point. But I think that will mainly be an advantage in PVE. Passive attack speed buffs will have way more impact in PVE compared to PVP. In PVP you might need to block, dodge, interupt, etc., and you might get kited or whatever. In PVE all extra ways of doing extra damage matter, making bar swapping important. But since I do not care much about PVE, I think that having one buff on a secondary bar will open up a few good strategies. But 2 viable roles does seem stronger in my opinion (see previous post).

 

About the balance of class buffs:

I do not think that summon abilities stay after swapping bars, since it is not a buff. 

It does not make sense to remove dots when swapping bars. Since you used resources and a global cooldown to cast it. The results is more damage then an instant abilty, but the damage is spread over a period of time. If you remove it when swapping bars, instant abilities will be alot stronger.

Furthermore, about petrify. It has a very long stun, but no cast time. It seems to me that cast abilties will get interrupted most of the time, making this abilities so much better then Agony or Runic prison.

Also marked target seems really strong to me. Many post on this forums stated that tanks might be really strong in PVP. Marked target removing all resistances will be the ideal tank kill ability (making it a staple for all my nightlbade builds) and it has 50 yards range.

[Xenon]

Now...for the templar... You'll see why using one bar for buffs isn't very fair:

Cleansing Ritual

Rune Focus

Spear Shards

 

Which, brings me to weapon choices:

 

Resto Staff-

Regeneration

Force Siphon

Steadfast Ward

 

So you don't think it will be viable with a PvP DPS Templar having a restoration staff as secondary with abilities such as Cleansing Ritual, Force Siphon and Regenereration. That will trigger quite a lot of HoTs and passive heals on hit....

 

Then switch to the primary stamina intensive DPS weapon build. Such as Bow with one or two Dawn's Wrath 28m abilities or Two hand/Dual wield supported with one or two Aedric Spear abilities.