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Tanking in ESO


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#16
Craizer

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Very good points Irons!



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#17
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Tanking class comparison

I've made a list of abilities you will want available as a tank on the spreadsheet linked at the bottom of the thread. To avoid this getting to wordy most will be point form.

General summary for tanking:

-Any class can tank, just need proper attribute distribution, heavy armor, and a 1 handed weapon equipped with a shield.

-Class skills provide variety, CC, buffs, heals, DoTs, Ultimates, Debuffs, AoE and resource management skills to round out the build

-You don't want anything that has a cast if you can help it, stick to auras or instant abilities if you can in order to keep your shield up blocking as best as possible. It's not the most dynamic way of playing but ensuring you have your skills active at all times while focusing on blocking, body position, dodging and taunting.

-Stamina Stamina Stamina Stamina! Did I mention stamina? One thing I noticed is that all of your core tank abilities from the sword and board or heavy armor tree require stamina, not to mention blocking, dodging and heavy attacks. At first I though magicka would be an issue but I've now come to the conclusion that stamina will be your priority.

-Puncture: does decent dmg, taunts and sunders the enemies armor is priority #1 keep it up

-Low slash: does dmg, snares and reduces enemies weapon damage is priority #2

-To get all of the sword and board, heavy armor and class skill Active abilities and passives it will take 48 Skill points by the time you're done morphing.

Class summaries:

Dragonknight

Dragonknight Skill points (SP's):
48 SP from the general skills
44 SP from the dragonknight skills
24 for one crafting profession 
10 for abilities I missed abilities I missed
126 is the Approx. total

Dragonknight Pros
-Ultimate, DoTs, HoTs, Auras, lots of CC, and shields. The dragonknight has it all, but you only have 10 slots

Dragonknight Cons
-Well since it has it all you will want it all and that is going to take lots of skill points, 44 skill points by my count. This will be the most skill point intensive build if you try to get all the different options and that is the only negative I could see.

Templar

Templar Skill points

48 SP from the general skills
34 SP from the Templar skills
24 for one crafting profession 
10 for abilities I missed abilities I missed
116 is the Approx. total

Templar Pros
-Shields w/ AoE, buffs/aura/regen, Ultimate ability. The templar will accel at keeping buffs and auras on those around him and having shields that damage the enemy

Templar Cons
-They have little to no CC to control mob groups

Sorcerer

Sorcerer Skill points

48 SP from the general skills
30 SP from the sorcerer skills
24 for one crafting profession 
10 for abilities I missed abilities I missed
112 is the Approx. total

Sorcerer Pros
-Bound armor!, pets, CC and AoE will fill out the tanking hot bars nicely. 

Sorcerer Cons
-There are no buffs or auras for you or your surrounding party

Nightblade

Nightblade Skill points

48 SP from the general skills
26 SP from the nightblade skills
24 for one crafting profession 
10 for abilities I missed abilities I missed
108 is the Approx. total

Nightblade Pros
-Great resource management, DoTs, HoTs, and debuffs

Nightblade Cons
-No tank ultimate and little to no CC to control mob groups

My thoughts and why:

-This is just a guide! You can do whatever you want with your skill selections I've just gone through them all and are trying to help people decide which class fits there playstyle best.
-The skill point calculations are very loose and I based them on morphing all the abilities in my spreadsheet and maxing the passives I've noted. You may choose to take less and reduce the skill point totals or add others.
-I tried to take only the abilities that would aid tanking in the form of buffs, debuffs, CC, AoE, group Aura's, heals, DoTs, HoT's etc.
-I really like DoTs for tanking, easy dmg ability to fit into a rotation involving Puncture/Low slash/Dots/Debuff's/Buffs and just keeping those abilities active on their respective targets. I really hope they add a timer mod soon after release so I don't have to count Mississippi's in my head


Spreadsheet Link to look at complete list of abilities I've chosen
https://docs.google.....3c&usp=sharing



#18
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I just copy pasted this post from my guild site, enjoy!



#19
irons

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I'm sorry but you clearly haven't played ESO.

 

Just let us take a look at Bound Armor the skill is nice to add some survibility to a mage but the amount of armor it adds is too low even with the right morpgh and Pets don't support tanking at all.

 

 

The thing is their is only 1 true Tank in the game and that's the DK all other classes are way off.

 

Yes you can create Tank builds with all classes but that doesn't mean that they will be any good.

For example I could build a DK Archer.

The build would work but would it be good? Not really

Would it be able to compete with other Archer builds? Hell no

 

 

So to make it short for those who wanna play a Tank and are really serious about it than there is no way around the DK.



#20
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Your right I'm not a game developer and I haven't partaken in all the game content. I'm keeping an open mind and listing possibilities for when we know the amount of survival skills required and how much other skills we will be able to mix in to our builds.

 

You're also right in that the pets probably won't be good, I agree but someone asked me to add it for them so I did. I'm not going to tell them they're wrong or disagree until the ideas can be fully proven in game.

 

I see you are a developer or part of the closed beta?



#21
kingcats

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Every game there is always that guy who says all the other tanks suck and there is only one. That's what balancing is for. The content in this game most likely wont be all the difficult in the first place so it really doesn't matter too much.

 

Actually bound armor does kind of suck, but check this out:

 

Sorcs have lightning form which even in heavy armor can be consistently kept up easily without any focus on mana regen, and you'll still have enough mana regen to cast a few mage's fury or other spells when you feel like. It is the games highest armor increase by a large margin. In fact you get so much armor that in heavy armor you loose about 2/3's of the armor you get from the ability due to diminishing returns. However, this isn't the extent of the Sorc power for tanking.

 

In light armor a Sorc has more armor and spell resist than a DK does in heavy armor. This is because lightning form is so freaking amazingly bonkers in the massive amounts of armor/spell resist you get from it that your light armor turns into plate mail. However, with light armor you go from barely being able to keep up lightning form to being able to use more stuff. Also mind you bosses do fairly often use magic damage abilities and it does hurt a lot.

 

Sorc has Conjured ward which morphs into an AOE heal+shield (or a damage buff to your pets). This augments your block so with out dumping points into stamina you block effectively. You have lightning escape as another dodge when you need it. Inner fire from undaunted is another taunt. Bound armor to cover you if the boss has a stun and your worried about being caught with lightning form down.  

 

This leaves sorc with all ways full stamina because he doesn't use it. You use your stamina to bash/block/dodge when ever needed and your magicka augments all of these.

 

Also with pets, they tend to draw lots of enemy monster love and they help you do some tanking for all those mob you can't taunt. That is more indirect group utility. Though for boss fight i dont recommend using them

 

Sorc Tank build:

All light armor 

 

Lightning Form

Conjured Ward

Inner Fire

Optionals(you pick 2):

  Lightning escape

  Bounder armor

  Winged Twilight

  Bone Shield 

 

Overload (Ultimate)

 

A few additional things to remember. You'll get access to all of the skills eventually. You probably have two whole tree unlock by level 20 so you don't really need to just focus one tree. Also balance happens classes will be buffed/nerfed regularly. Right now i'd say sorcs are OP tankwise, but no one really knows it because it requires more than a shallow level of thought to figure out how to do it right. 



#22
Hans

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Right now i'd say sorcs are OP tankwise, but no one really knows it because it requires more than a shallow level of thought to figure out how to do it right. 

 

If lightning form is THAT good, it really only need a very shallow thought: "Go Sorc->Cast LF->tank"

:smile:



#23
irons

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Lightning Form gives you a huge Def boost but it doesn't make you a Tank.Tanking in this game is about control and not just about survival.Lightning Form is also very costly even in full light armor it will eat most if not all of your Magicka reg.

#24
Xenon

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I don't think we will see a single tank tanking everything (thrash, casters, elites and the boss) all at once. 

 

in eso tanks dont generate more threat than other classes (in fact they generate less threat than other classes since they will prioritize survivability over dps). there is only one taunt in the game (and it is open to any classes as long as you wield a sword n board). and the taunt is a single target ability. In eso all classes can handle a few thrash mobs on their own, the tank does not have to tank it all. in eso almost all healing is aoe or hot, it would even be counter productive if only one target take 100% of all damage... better to spread the damage around and heal everything at once.

 

 

 

I think a very common four man team would look similar to this:

 

one tank focused on survivability and single target CC + debuffing hard hitting elites and bosses (debuffing, blocking, interrupting, CC'ing, building threat, keep away from the rest of the party, taunting. heavy armor, sword n board - any class can do it tbh).

- dks have access to a bit more mitigation spells, but other classes get other utility in form of life leach, shields etc that in the end also count as extra effective health. they also get access to other utility spells that can be used to for example survive or avoid a boss telegraph.

 

one single target assassin/nuker specialist which main job is to deal with spread out enemy healers and after that enemy dps casters (cast a long duration cc on one healer, nuke and interrupt another healer, switch to a enemy dps caster all across the room and kill it too - dps night blades or dps sorcs come to mind)

 

one melee aoe dps warrior which main job is to deal with multiple weaker melee thrash mobs (mix of medium and heavy armor - using physical weapon skills, armor skills and area oriented class skills to deal area of effect damage bring area of effect crowd control to the table - dps dks or dps templars come to mind)

 

one healer which will keep everyone up (light armor to get more resistance from enemy caster spells which hopefully is the only thing he will be hit by, mostly slotting long range restoration staff abilities - any class can do it tbh).

- templars healers just get an alternative way of healing as they can wield a dps weapon while they use short range pbaoe heals from their class line instead... templar healers probably need to mix in some heavy armor or a shield as their relatively short range pbaoe healing style mean they likely will take some cleave damage. 



#25
irons

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For me a Tank also needs AoE CC to keep the mobs in place so that it is easier for the AoE nuker to kill them off.Don't forget he has 2 bars.Other than that I agree1 Tank/CC1 Single Target Dps1 AoE Dps1 HealerFor trash mobs the single target Dps should also have AoE and the Aoe Dps should also have some single target dps for bosses.

#26
Xenon

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you are thinking too much about how tanking is in that other mmo...

 

unlike a lot of other mmos the thrash in eso will not stick on the tank.

unlike a lot of other mmos the tank does not generate more aoe threat than other roles.

unlike a lot of other mmos the tank does not have any aoe taunts.

 

the tank should probably focus on turning elites and bosses away from the others so they telegraph only on the tank.

I think it will be down right unwise for the tank to drag elites and bosses around just to run after and cc thrash.

....As thrash will most likely stick to the aoe dps and the healer anyway - not the tank.

 

i think it will be more important for the aoe dps character to have aoe cc.

a lot more so than for the boss tank.

 

some people might have an easier time grasping this concept when they start thinking of the aoe dps character as the "offtank".



#27
irons

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What you don't seem to understand is that it doesn't matter if the tank has the aggro of the other mobs as long as he is able to hold them at one place.



#28
kingcats

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Okay so a few important things. Undaunted do have a taunt in its tree. It's inner fire. They sort of snuck it in last patch and no looked.

 

Serious when i said Lightning Form is OP it isn't as shallow as it being a strong oh snap button. Lightning Form can be sustained  with 100% up time in heavy armor and also cast one other very inexpensive spell like mage fury every once in a while (like 1 mage's to every 5 lightning form cast). In light armor you can cast lightning form and other abilities with ease. 

 

That's not all though. Mobs who have yet to been attacked will stick to you when you pop lightning form. Unlike spiked armor that requires you to be hit. Lightning Form is a pulsing aoe that make's you tons of friends. On top of conjured ward which is an aoe heal+shield you will be making friends. As for CC  I don't think i need to explain the levels of CC the sorc has access to. 

 

Anyway my point is. Lightning Form is really OP, and I'm not just saying that to defend sorc. I'm saying that as in it need some serious adjusting <.<. The combo of basically forcing your armor to go as high as it possible can, and the constant aoe damage to everything is really strong. I think maybe the cost should be a little higher so maybe it can't stay up constantly in heavy armor.



#29
irons

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if you refer to the cost in the doc. than let me tell you those are wrong.

 

The base cost of this skill is higher. At lvl 15 it was 132 which means it's base cost is 66 which than means this skill costs 528 magicka at lvl 50.



#30
kingcats

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if you refer to the cost in the doc. than let me tell you those are wrong.

 

The base cost of this skill is higher. At lvl 15 it was 132 which means it's base cost is 66 which than means this skill costs 528 magicka at lvl 50.

I'm not refering to the doc. it is at full up time at level 15. It might be possible that at level 50 maybe this isn't the case (depends on accesories, enchants, and stat alotment i'd assume). 

 

In light armor, its more than possible.  






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