The Dragonknight Thread

[Areodon]

Its simple - armor should provide for dps uptime. So even if u cant outburst lighter armor u can stand longer in fire .-). DPS uptime + resource balance should be significant element in overall dps output. If your math regarding armor protection ratio ( in previous threads somewhere ) was right then simply health pool is not large enough to make possible enough dps uptime and i will not even mention dps resource availability. I am not saying u are not right i am saying that if u are right straightforward melee ( that is not related to NB ) is deprived. Times of knights and Cinderella are long behind us ..... its thiefs time. What a role model  .-)  

[Musclemagic]

They have lots of softcaps in ESO and I hope that those are at least visible.Otherwise most players will gimp themselfs.

 

I doubt they will be visible, considering how low-profile and emmersive everything's supposed to be.. but I really hope that the information gets posted somewhere (here preferably) ASAP. XD

[irons]

My view:survibility1. heavy2. light3. mediumdmg1. medium2. light3. heavyA rogue type char will lose 1 vs 1 against a Tank/Bruzer.

[Musclemagic]

Its simple - armor should provide for dps uptime. So even if u cant outburst lighter armor u can stand longer in fire .-). DPS uptime + resource balance should be significant element in overall dps output. If your math regarding armor protection ratio ( in previous threads somewhere ) was right then simply health pool is not large enough to make possible enough dps uptime and i will not even mention dps resource availability. I am not saying u are not right i am saying that if u are right straightforward melee ( that is not related to NB ) is deprived. Times of knights and Cinderella are long behind us ..... its thiefs time. What a role model .-)

Armor only provides more DPS uptime if you're soloing. In a dungeon, where there's a healer and a tank, the DPS doesn't need to worry about it as much. In PVP where the low-mitigation people are in the back and the people in front are high-mitigation and high control it will be a similar effect.

So, yeah, definitely while soloing and in 1v1 situations there's a give-take relationship within yourself, but when in groups the give-take relationship is group wide. For melees, you're right, this isn't necessarily the case because they'll be forced to be on the front line (which won't be good for medium--and they should grab a bow and get in back and be happy about it, haha) so heavy will be good for front-line melee, for sure. Unless they're NB, yeah, need to ninja in and out of places to survive in that medium.. hopefully they'll be able to, or I feel like they'll be even worse than just being good for solo targets on the front line--they'll flat out be dead meat wasting out healers res-shards. XD

I agree, resource management is probably the #1 thing to depict who does well and who does bad in every aspect. For example: people who have 2 spammables with the same outcome are gimping themselves because the non-spammable skills are generally more efficient to begin with..and yeah, just wasted space.. but luckily the game makes most things different enough to not have to worry about people doing this too often.

I wonder how bubbles will stack though. The bubble from the enchantment, obsidian shield or conjured ward, and steadfast ward... as well as things like Brawler morph on 2H's Cleave... Think they'll all stack at all? If they do, will they all be reduced at the same time or will they be selective? Will it be cumulative? If it doesn't stack, how will it work--biggest damage bubble, longest time, or what?

If they do stack..does that mean that spamming it would also stack them??

So many unanswerable questions right now it's ridiculously aggravating.

My view:

survibility

1. heavy

2. light

3. medium

dmg

1. medium

2. light

3. heavy

A rogue type char will lose 1 vs 1 against a Tank/Bruzer.

I think medium and light will be very similar damage due to the resistance reduction passive on light. 42% reduction of targets magic resistances is huge.

There was a great post before, I forget the guys name who did it since he hasn't posted in a while but he said something along the lines of, "Medium > Light, Heavy > Medium, Light > Heavy." and I thought he was spot on. But now...seeing how high resistances are on heavy armor... I don't know anymore.

[Musclemagic]

 

My view:survibility1. heavy2. light3. mediumdmg1. medium2. light3. heavyA rogue type char will lose 1 vs 1 against a Tank/Bruzer.

 

I think medium and light will be very similar damage due to the resistance reduction passive on light. 42% reduction of targets magic resistances is huge.

 

There was a great post before, I forget the guys name who did it since he hasn't posted in a while but he said something along the lines of, "Medium > Light, Heavy > Medium, Light > Heavy." and I thought he was spot on. But now...seeing how high resistances are on heavy armor... I don't know anymore.

 

Maybe it'll work out something like this:

 

DPS:

1) Light = Medium

2) Heavy

 

Mitigation:

1) Heavy

2) Light(worse against physical) = Medium(worse against magical)

 

Perhaps medium armor isn't much lower than heavy in terms of armor, but it has much less magic resistances--and then Light isn't much lower in terms of magic resistances, but much less armor rating.

 

That would make the most sense to me.. this game's pissing me off today though. I wish it was out already so I could just test everything... Bah..

 

 

I need to go write a philosophy paper, I'm just stressing.

 

 

Now I'm also double posting all over the place. XD

[irons]

I don't think that anyone will be able to spam attacks that's also something Zenimax said.Skills will cost from 200 up to 400+ with a ressource pool of 1600 or less and a base reg of just 3% in combat it simply isn't possible to "spam" abilities.Plus they have soft caps on reg and on ressource pools to prevent it.

[Musclemagic]

I don't think that anyone will be able to spam attacks that's also something Zenimax said.Skills will cost from 200 up to 400+ with a ressource pool of 1600 or less and a base reg of just 3% in combat it simply isn't possible to "spam" abilities.Plus they have soft caps on reg and on ressource pools to prevent it.

 

By spammable I mean things that don't have lasting effects.

 

Using 2 Lava Whips, 2 Defensive Posture, or 2 Rushed Ceremony in a row would be spamming in this game--due to the high cost nature of spells (especially the spammable ones where you get the full effect of the spell all at once.)

[irons]

By spammable I mean things that don't have lasting effects. Using 2 Lava Whips, 2 Defensive Posture, or 2 Rushed Ceremony in a row would be spamming in this game--due to the high cost nature of spells (especially the spammable ones where you get the full effect of the spell all at once.)

I just wanted to clear it out, because many think they could just use 1 ability instead of there normal attack to spam dmg, which will only be possible for a very limited time before they run out of magicka/stamina.

[Musclemagic]

I get the feeling that for PVE tanking we'll want two 1H&S bars in order to deal with the most amount of situations...although I guess since you can change skills before each fight it doesn't matter.

 

Edit: It might be the best option for tanks in PVP though.

[irons]

I get the feeling that for PVE tanking we'll want two 1H&S bars in order to deal with the most amount of situations...although I guess since you can change skills before each fight it doesn't matter. Edit: It might be the best option for tanks in PVP though.

The advantage of having 2 different weapon sets is that you have access to more skills.For example my PvE build has1 bar with S&S which focuses on single target tanking and the 2 bar with 2h focuses on crowd control and AoE to deal with spawns.

[Draconian]

Do we know whether the DoTs from fiery breath and searing strike stack, both being fire DoTs?

 

I think I read somewhere that multiple HoTs from strife spammage for instance won't stack but just renew. But maybe that's just because it's the same ability being used.

[irons]

Do we know whether the DoTs from fiery breath and searing strike stack, both being fire DoTs?

 

I think I read somewhere that multiple HoTs from strife spammage for instance won't stack but just renew. But maybe that's just because it's the same ability being used.

They don't stack because they aren't the same DoT's but both will tick. The burning caused by this abilities due the passive won't stack but renew.

[Draconian]

Do you guys reckon that force shock does much more damage than a regular power attack with a dragonknight destro build?

 

It's nice to have a spammable 28 m ability, and the destro passives do make it ignore some spell resistance, but is it worth it over just using power attacks?

[Areodon]

Its impossible to estimate what damage force shock does in comparison to power attack. We simply doesnt know what weapons ( normal and power attacks )in general does damage wise. Force shock is not spammable. Because it will cost around 280 mana on level 50. If u invested majority of your resource points  in mana u will have around 1400-1500 mana pull. So u will be out of mana in 9-10 secs. 

[Draconian]

In the character progression video, you see a sorcerer whose "white attack" damage is 100 flat with his weapon. Based on the spreadsheet, and judging by how some of the known abilities level in damage and cost from level 1-50, damage values seem to go up by a factor of 15 to 25, and the cost of abilities by a factor of 7-8. So, if an ability does 7 damage at level one, using a default magica resource bar, it should end up doing around 115-175 damage, give or take. That's why I am wondering whether a power attack with a weapon which does, e.g. 100 base damage, will compare with a feat like force shock.

 

Edit: Though we don't know whether this sorcerer is affected by buffs - like surge, for instance.

[Rally]

How about the same Dot from a different caster?In some games they stacked, in some games they didn't...does burning work the same way it did in gw2, stack in duration, or will dots stack in intensity? If they stack at all..

[Musclemagic]

That Weapon Damage  ------ 100 is interesting. If it is weapon damage, then the weapon damage of the level 35 DK would be about 3.5% of his own health and the sorce would be around 9.7%.

 

This would mean that at level 1 it would be hitting for around 3-4 or 9-10 depending on if you're using a destro staff or a 1h and how much +weapon damage you have.

 

A Sorc using surge at level 1 would increase their DPS by 3% of their health it looks like, meaning that it could almost double their DPS if they're using a 1h or increase it by about 33% with a destro staff.

 

1H damage is likely similar to Resto. 2H/DW are probably pretty similar, and comparable to Bow/Destro, which are probably pretty similar to each other..

 

The thing is, that "weapon damage" in the video is also a multiplier for weapon-abilities. That's the confusing part to me... Is "weapon power" a multiplier and "weapon damage" just the weapon damage? Then what is "spell damage*?

 

This makes me think that Weapon Power and Weapon Damage are the same thing, Spell Power and Spell Damage are the same thing, and that those are just multipliers that increase spells that aren't weapon-based for spell-power and weapon-power increases both weapon damage and weapon-ability power.

 

I don't think we know enough about the stats to try to guess #'s yet.. but we know he's not affected by Surge right now in this video because he has no "active buffs" on right now (bottom of his menu screen).

 

I reckon that weapon hits will do about 50% of the total damage if you are using spells to DPS as well. So, if you are using a destro staff, and spells to do damage, you'll do almost 4x the damage as someone in 1h/shield who's doing like 50% the weapon damage and like 10% the spell damage.

 

This means that surge and weakness to elements probably combine to double the damage of the normal attacks, so if we figure out what this # looks like (3 x 1.4 = 4.2) it would seem that we're only hitting for about 4 damage with light attacks at level 1 (so this is. Watching videos it looks like power attacks do about 50% more damage than light attacks.

 

So, if you look at Force Shock doing 7 damage for 35 MP then you can do about 21 damage off the bat with it and then cast it again once every 10 seconds or so... that continued damage is only .7 DPS though, so while it might be good for bursting the actual DPS is low that the white damage will definitely catch up.

 

If heavy attacks are doing 6.3 dmg (4.2x1.5=) then it's at least comparable during the continuous DPS--but I reckon it's about as easy/fast as light attacks rather than heavy, so probably better to compare the 7 damage to the 4.2 regular damage. Just note that the 4.2 is continuous while the 7 is only burst.

 

(I got 4.2 as the standard base damage for destro staff by assuming that Surge+Weakness would about double the damage on white hits, so I calculated the damage and just didn't double it to figure out what normal hits would probably be like... These are all huge guesses, of course, but since we don't have any other info to go off of... /shrug. )

[Areodon]

I understood your question for sure and i am interested as well but also sure we can't at this point have reliable answer ( coz we don't know anything about that guy - his passives , weapon multiplier if any ( perhaps weapons damage scale with some other formula or percentage ), a lot of math in behind of combat mech .... We can be sure that spamming is not possible - so obviously there we have to have strong white damage. I tried to run some numbers on that and again i am definitely sure that we suffer from lack of information. Still If i have to make wild guess - white hit will make 40-50% of one average class spell damage( if u convert those with 15 as multiplier from lvl 1 to lvl 50) . 

[irons]

That Weapon Damage  ------ 100 is interesting. If it is weapon damage, then the weapon damage of the level 35 DK would be about 3.5% of his own health and the sorce would be around 9.7%.

 

This would mean that at level 1 it would be hitting for around 3-4 or 9-10 depending on if you're using a destro staff or a 1h and how much +weapon damage you have.

 

A Sorc using surge at level 1 would increase their DPS by 3% of their health it looks like, meaning that it could almost double their DPS if they're using a 1h or increase it by about 33% with a destro staff.

What?

 

Surge doesn't increase weapon dmg by 3% of your health it increases it by 3. It's just a flat number which will increase and has nothing to do with your hp.

 

Why do you compare weapon dmg with Hp in the first place that just doesn't make any sense at all and pls explain how 65 weapon dmg = 3.5% by 1070HP.

 

 

 

I guess Weapon dmg will be the dmg of your normal attack without a crit.

Spell dmg will increase the dmg of your spells(magicka), while weapon dmg will increase the dmg of your weapon abilities (stamina).

[Areodon]

And power of melee attacks will be probably multiplier for weapon damage and weapon abilities. 

[ghost5689]

Reflective scale says- reflect all spell projectiles for 4 seconds. Does this include actives abilities?

 

- I was arguing with a guy over this for almost an hour.

-also anyone know how long it takes to swap bars or if spells ignore armor if they do then do arrows as well.?

[Areodon]

Swapping bars - around 1 second. Regarding reflective scales i am not sure but  if i have to guess i would say includes all except white hits. 

[irons]

Reflective scale says- reflect all spell projectiles for 4 seconds. Does this include actives abilities?

 

- I was arguing with a guy over this for almost an hour.

-also anyone know how long it takes to swap bars or if spells ignore armor if they do then do arrows as well.?

It includes active abilities but only those which are projectiles so for piercing javelin it works but for mage's fury not.

 

swaping bars takes as long as the animation takes which is about a sec.

Spells are countered by Spell Resistance and therefore ignore armor.

Arrows are physical attacks and therefore are countered by armor.

[irons]

Swapping bars - around 1 second. Regarding reflective scales i am not sure but  if i have to guess i would say includes all except white hits. 

it works also on white hits, because staff attacks count as spell projectiles

[Musclemagic]

What?

 

Surge doesn't increase weapon dmg by 3% of your health it increases it by 3. It's just a flat number which will increase and has nothing to do with your hp.

 

Why do you compare weapon dmg with Hp in the first place that just doesn't make any sense at all and pls explain how 65 weapon dmg = 3.5% by 1070HP.

 

 

 

I guess Weapon dmg will be the dmg of your normal attack without a crit.

Spell dmg will increase the dmg of your spells(magicka), while weapon dmg will increase the dmg of your weapon abilities (stamina).

What's the standard HP at level 1? I thought it was 100 for everything besides Orc, so I did 3/100 = 3%. I'm not confident that it is 100 though, it was just a fun little guesswork post.

 

As far as those numbers go... I have no idea where I got them, LMAO, what in the literal fuck?? I can't figure it out!