The Dragonknight Thread

[Areodon]

Hey mate, 

 

I wouldnt go that far in comparison to other clases ( i dont have other class numbers ) but i am not overwelmed with DK numbers and facts ( no feasible long range , pretty bad aoe, have to play in robes ) so far. Thanks for running numbers. I made my decision and ill stick with DK. Game is like 5-6 months far from release and ballancing can jump in at the end. Ill squezee out every drop dps from him eventually and hope for the best  

I have asked several confirmations in my previous mail - like how much i will get from one enchant, crit multiplier......  

thanks again 

[Musclemagic]

Hey mate, 

 

I wouldnt go that far in comparison to other clases ( i dont have other class numbers ) but i am not overwelmed with DK numbers and facts ( no feasible long range , pretty bad aoe, have to play in robes ) so far. Thanks for running numbers. I made my decision and ill stick with DK. Game is like 5-6 months far from release and ballancing can jump in at the end. Ill squezee out every drop dps from him eventually and hope for the best  

I have asked several confirmations in my previous mail - like how much i will get from one enchant, crit multiplier......  

thanks again 

 

Thank you! I love talking about this stuff, and even though you're not going to play as another class--I'd be really interested to hear your builds on them sometime if you ever make one!

[irons]

The build I posted was a pure PvE Dungeon build if you wanna play PvP i recommend to either completely change the build or to go with another class.Tanks will be extremly strong 1vs1 chars but most fights in PvP won't be 1 vs 1 fights. I would expect that in most fights groups would try to ignore the tank and kill his allies first.Tanks will also have quite some spell resistance:For example the DK gets passive spell resistance gains armor and spell resistance from immoveable and gets a bonus to spell resistance from heavy armor.The weakness of Tanks will be that the won't deal that much dmg and that they don't have as much ressources as others.My Target as a Tank in PvP will be to deal enough dmg so that it will be hard to just ingnore me and to mess other players up.Than for me a PvP build is great when other players say that it is extremly annoying to deal with me.

[Areodon]

Thank you! I love talking about this stuff, and even though you're not going to play as another class--I'd be really interested to hear your builds on them sometime if you ever make one!

Probably i will build few just to know them better for purpose of pvp ( home work - just to know better what they can against me:-). I am not good in pvp at all. Played pvp always just for pure fun, but i am interested in AvA.

The build I posted was a pure PvE Dungeon build if you wanna play PvP i recommend to either completely change the build or to go with another class.

Tanks will be extremly strong 1vs1 chars but most fights in PvP won't be 1 vs 1 fights. I would expect that in most fights groups would try to ignore the tank and kill his allies first.

Tanks will also have quite some spell resistance:

For example the DK gets passive spell resistance gains armor and spell resistance from immoveable and gets a bonus to spell resistance from heavy armor.

The weakness of Tanks will be that the won't deal that much dmg and that they don't have as much ressources as others.

My Target as a Tank in PvP will be to deal enough dmg so that it will be hard to just ingnore me and to mess other players up.

Than for me a PvP build is great when other players say that it is extremly annoying to deal with me.

If they will try to save u for end perhaps better is to be fake tank. I know that your build was targeting my idea of PVE DK DPS. Muscle and I crunched some numbers before ( if my built faces tank). In my opinion i can win that encounter only if tank has serious computer malefunction. Think that DK regarding PVE DPS side has to be ballanced a lot before release or we will be in pretty bad shape on release.

[irons]

I don't think that it will be a problem that tanks will win most 1 vs 1 simply because there won't be many 1 vs 1 fights in Cyrodiil.

[Musclemagic]

I don't think that it will be a problem that tanks will win most 1 vs 1 simply because there won't be many 1 vs 1 fights in Cyrodiil.

 

I agree, they will win 1v1 fights pretty much every time IMO--or at least not die in them--but they will be useless if played incorrectly (as in, trying to actually achieve a goal other than just fucking with people. The ones who try to DPS and such instead of holding/supporting/etc) in group-battles.

 

I'm just teasing you irons, I know you're going to DPS-tank and I think it's worth trying to do, I just don't know how well it will do in groups.

[Rally]

Nothing is more frustrating, than beeing pulled/stunned/snared at a high rate and u cant kill the person, coz hes pretty durable.

Shield Charge and Low Slash and a few white hits will fuck most DDs up

Pulling healer 24/7 is also very annoying

 

I'd just get full HA and a mix of Mag/Sta reg stones depending on race. Just to spam my "ill fuck u up" spells infininetly.Put some nice support spells in the mix and that would be a fun build to play.

[Musclemagic]

Nothing is more frustrating, than beeing pulled/stunned/snared at a high rate and u cant kill the person, coz hes pretty durable.

Shield Charge and Low Slash and a few white hits will fuck most DDs up

Pulling healer 24/7 is also very annoying

 

I'd just get full HA and a mix of Mag/Sta reg stones depending on race. Just to spam my "ill fuck u up" spells infininetly.Put some nice support spells in the mix and that would be a fun build to play.

 

Yeah, taking regen instead of power just to do utility spells is what all tanks should be doing after they have enough resistances and such. If you build your character with low health though, you'll suffer from being killed faster even if you have the ability to do more things to mess with people--or even to heal yourself--I don't think anything justifies taking away HP from your character's innate build if you plan on PvPing. 66% HP purebreads, in all builds, FTW. XD --Bold statement, but I can only see a few exceptions to this for PvP.

[irons]

I'm just teasing you irons, I know you're going to DPS-tank and I think it's worth trying to do, I just don't know how well it will do in groups.

Actually I'm not )My PvP build will only be slightly less tanky than my PvE build.You don't even need an active to mess up some one you can just use your bash which will interrupt your opponent.

[Musclemagic]

Actually I'm not )My PvP build will only be slightly less tanky than my PvE build.You don't even need an active to mess up some one you can just use your bash which will interrupt your opponent.

 

Aahh!! Cool, I'm glad to hear this! I was worried you were going to try to be less of a hindrance, BAHAHA!  

 

It sucks you're going to be on PC man, it would be fun to play together. Tank/Heal carry right here.

[irons]

 It sucks you're going to be on PC man, it would be fun to play together. Tank/Heal carry right here.

Yeah would be nice.But if the information I got is corret than we will only have to wait till mid february to finally play the damn game.How is your Templer build going to look like?

[Musclemagic]

I'll answer in the Templar thread, I haven't updated my build there in a while anyway.

 

I think mid-feb the preorders will start, that's super early.. if that's the case then preorders should already be started. :S

[Areodon]

More or less i think that i am as much close to my PVE built as i can get in this moment.  

Now i am thinking of PVP built.

I dont have idea in what kind of pvp group i may end up. So i would like to have some stand alone built and then if i become part of some group and know group requirements then i will adjust ofc. 

I would like to do most of damage with DK abilities and to use one handed and shield for close combat survivability. Obviously i dont have idea what my other weapon could be. For sure i know that i could go in another direction and take bow as weapon. Idea is not to assume tanky role but more damage guy who just use skills and bonuses from weapon ( sword and shield) in order to survive-  Is it possible and how ? How my bars could look like and what about resources ? If i talk nonsense just give me direction . 

[irons]

I can only see a handful of viable DK builds for PvP and none of them really fits what you want.The problem is that you might be able to find a decent build, which fits your needs but that other classes will just be better at it.

[Areodon]

Ok Irons - can u give me in broad strokes  what u see as viable options ? 

[irons]

Ok Irons - can u give me in broad strokes  what u see as viable options ?

Tank and Bruizer builds which focus on weapon dmg and weapon abilities to deal dmg.

[Areodon]

I don't have anything against weapon damage and abilities just i have magic based damage in pve and i guessed it will be pretty difficult to adjust resources with gear and armor.  But please if its not problem give me idea what would be Bruiser build and how that may look like - bars, armor, ench ... 

[Musclemagic]

I don't have anything against weapon damage and abilities just i have magic based damage in pve and i guessed it will be pretty difficult to adjust resources with gear and armor.  But please if its not problem give me idea what would be Bruiser build and how that may look like - bars, armor, ench ... 

 

If you plan on using this PVE build as your main build, I would venture to say that you would not be able to PVP very well because your MP/ST/HP ratios are too messed up to make your PVE build viable in PVP.

 

Also, you'd basically have to restart leveling everything anyway. A light armor DK in PVP will get wrecked, no matter how they're built because they need to be in melee range to do anything. You'd need to completely re-level a different armor--as well as 2 new weapons, have completely new enchants on that gear (of course) and completely different playstyles.

 

I still don't understand why you won't go Sorce, I think it's a much better fit for you. As a sorce you could PVE just as well and convert to a PVP build with relative ease.

 

EDIT: Can I ask why you want to play a DK? They are meant for tanking, I'm sorry but if you are in to min/maxing then you will just be pulling your hair out with your ideas as a DK.

 

The fire abilities are strong, yes, but they are close-range. You can use them as a nice damage source still, but if you're in light armor in the thick of things--even as a DK you'll get a lot of poop on your chest. You've got to kite the melees if you're in light armor.

 

Although, Spiked Armor and Ash Cloud might be enough to counter this, if you can keep them up more with light armor on than you can with heavy or medium then you could still do a bit more damage--take less damage from both physical and spell damage. Reflective Scale for fighting other casters. Fiery Grip of course.

 

Those 4 abilities leave you with 1 ability for damage. Molten Weapons would give your PVP group a lot more benefit than any of your single-target or aoe damage abilities, and it would be less MP intensive, so I think that woul be a good choice.

 

But, then you'd just be tanking...which you don't want to do.

 

Another option for PVP would just be to take a resto staff and heal while you're in light armor, this is probably the best option to pair with your PVE build because you won't need to change much in the way of gear.

[irons]

If you plan on using this PVE build as your main build, I would venture to say that you would not be able to PVP very well because your MP/ST/HP ratios are too messed up to make your PVE build viable in PVP. Also, you'd basically have to restart leveling everything anyway. A light armor DK in PVP will get wrecked, no matter how they're built because they need to be in melee range to do anything. You'd need to completely re-level a different armor--as well as 2 new weapons, have completely new enchants on that gear (of course) and completely different playstyles. I still don't understand why you won't go Sorce, I think it's a much better fit for you. As a sorce you could PVE just as well and convert to a PVP build with relative ease. EDIT: Can I ask why you want to play a DK? They are meant for tanking, I'm sorry but if you are in to min/maxing then you will just be pulling your hair out with your ideas as a DK. The fire abilities are strong, yes, but they are close-range. You can use them as a nice damage source still, but if you're in light armor in the thick of things--even as a DK you'll get a lot of poop on your chest. You've got to kite the melees if you're in light armor. Although, Spiked Armor and Ash Cloud might be enough to counter this, if you can keep them up more with light armor on than you can with heavy or medium then you could still do a bit more damage--take less damage from both physical and spell damage. Reflective Scale for fighting other casters. Fiery Grip of course. Those 4 abilities leave you with 1 ability for damage. Molten Weapons would give your PVP group a lot more benefit than any of your single-target or aoe damage abilities, and it would be less MP intensive, so I think that woul be a good choice. But, then you'd just be tanking...which you don't want to do. Another option for PVP would just be to take a resto staff and heal while you're in light armor, this is probably the best option to pair with your PVE build because you won't need to change much in the way of gear.

I completely agree with muscle.

[Areodon]

I can't see picture , i can't see limitations. Thats my problem obviously . I never liked long range caster. Never liked pure warrior. Never liked stealthy guys. If u say that dk can't push DPS numbers then i am there with templar and certain types of nightblade.    

[Musclemagic]

I can't see picture , i can't see limitations. Thats my problem obviously . I never liked long range caster. Never liked pure warrior. Never liked stealthy guys. If u say that dk can't push DPS numbers then i am there with templar and certain types of nightblade.    

 

The problem's pretty simple: No matter what class you choose, you won't be able to survive up-close in cloth unless you're stealth based for 1v1 fights only.

 

As a Templar caster, in cloth, you'd want to stay in the back -- at least you can heal. As a NB DPS in cloth, you're best off being Destro w/ ranged and you'll still be able to heal with drains. As a Sorce in light armor you'll want to have your pets tank for you in PVE and in PVP you have a lot of ways to stay out of the fray.

 

On the other hand, as a DK in light armor you'll be useless unless you're in the fray, where you can tank some--sure--just like a Templar or a NB can tank/heal somewhat. But the difference is that they'd do something like Aspect of Terror --> Cripple to keep someone further away, while you'll be forced to keep them within your range and just keep on tanking. In groups there will be DK and NB up front who are holding people where they're at and either tanking or stealthing.. don't you think that if you are there, in the front, with light armor on..you'll just get picked off in a heartbeat? You have no escape abilities unless you count Dark Talons or Stonefist, but then you still wouldn't be able to DPS them at the same time.

 

Maybe you'd be able to keep people further than melee range, and up to 8m away, enabling you to Dark Talons-Dragon Breath-Lava Whip and keep doing Destro-staff attacks at the same time. I'd also keep Spiked Armor and Obsidian Shield on your bar.

 

This gives you no chasing power, finishing power, or escaping power like you get with NB and Sorce, but you do probably have plenty enough protection from casters due to both Light Armor and Scaled Armor. So all you need to really worry about is melee, and hopefully you have somewhat enough for physical damage through Spiked and Obsidian. Spiked wouldn't be enough on it's own, otherwise taking Fiery Grip instead of Obsidian would be nice, it would just make it so you need to Dark Talons sooner though.

 

It might be tricky to play this build, having to keep guys so close yet off of you... but I think it might be able to work at least somewhat if you really want it to. The only difference between this and sorce though is that you have to be a bit closer and you don't have as much killing or surviving power when the time needs.

 

I'd also make your 2nd bar a far-ranged bar with just survival DK abilities and then Destro Staff abilities.. You also should really find a way to use Reflective Scale with this bar, because with your short-range bar the long-ranged casters will just eat you alive in caster vs caster where you don't have a random melee in the middle to beat up--who also has to have no gap-closer or CC of their own (which are cheaper than either of yours--meaning he'll stick to you like hot-glue on upholstery.

 

I just don't see how it would work... it's not how the class is supposed to work.

 

After reading what you want to be, I'd still suggest you be a DK, because they're the only non-stealth up-close class that really works how you're saying--you'd still be using spells rather than typical melee like in most games, so it's not really pure-warrior...

 

 

 

Here's an idea: Use S&S with 3-4 light and 2-3 other heavy pieces. (I've always wondered if there are light/med/heavy shields in this game...but that's not on-topic.)

 

Take Defensive Posture and block a lot while your DoTs are ticking. That way you still rely on your fire damage, you can mitigate enough to be up front, you're not the typical melee or the typical tank or anything..

 

idk though mate, I feel like if I make a lot of builds and post them that you won't like any of them--you'll just need to figure it out on your own since you want something so peculiar.

 

I do think that your fire DPS build works well in PVE where you have controlled environments with predictable party members and such as well..but if you want to PVP, idk what to tell you.

[Areodon]

Thanks mate. I know sometimes i am pain in the ass :-). Obviously i have to drop some of constraints. I get it regarding pvp. On the other side its obvious that can't have pve fire dps and viable pvp build. I have to chose between templar and nightblade. In next couple of days i have to figure it out. Then i will ask u for advice.  

[Musclemagic]

Thanks mate. I know sometimes i am pain in the ass :-). Obviously i have to drop some of constraints. I get it regarding pvp. On the other side its obvious that can't have pve fire dps and viable pvp build. I have to chose between templar and nightblade. In next couple of days i have to figure it out. Then i will ask u for advice.  

 

If you are on the fence we can help you decide; What's something you can't live without? Armor and weapon types you're thinking about, ranged or close, PVE or PVP focus and what role you want to play in PVE or PVP--either personal survival, group support, raw killing power, etc--please be specific with this.

 

Honestly, once you can answer those questions, it will be easy to choose the best race/class/weapon/armor.

[Areodon]

Perhaps you're right. I would like to have char who is best melee overall dps there is with sufficient survivability ofc. Prefer melee range combat. Prefer PVE over PVP but not that much to dismiss PVP. If u have some build which is hard to play but it will push some serious numbers - trust me i can do it. I am ready to invest quite some time in this game and it is not an issue if  i have to gather significant number of attribute points ( i don't have problem if i have to cover 2 armors , 3 weapons, 2 crafts ( for combat bonuses..) I don't need to be efficient at beginning . I need efficiency 2-3 month after i reach veteran content. If i have to choose just between options u gave me like : survival, group support, raw killin power then i would say raw killing power with sufficient survivability ( what is sufficient depends on group but let say that in pve ill have very decent groups at beginning and at the end great groups. More or less i am open for NB ( i accept stealth totally ) and Templar.  Regarding races - human and elfs that all i can imagine to play myself. At this point i think that NB is closest to style i can fit in. 

[ghost5689]

Irons I know your still planning on being a DK with at least 5 pieces of medium,like i am. Post your ideas i really want to see them! You dont have to worry about muscle critisizing them ill keep him at bay.