191 replies to this topic

[Musclemagic]

Musclemagic asked me for my nightblade build. I know that options on certain abilities differ. But that happens when we dont have all the information. Builds will change when the game is released. As for now, I do agree with musclemagic that its good to have mostly buff abilities or situational abilities in your build and one bread and butter damage skill.

 

This is a nightblade build is something made mainly for AvA battles. The Idea behind this is fight at the backline of a small group in order to take hold of structures and important objectives in cyrodil.

Depending on the faction that I will play, I have two options:

Nightblade – Kahjit – 5 medium armor, 2 heavy armor, 30% MP, 50% stam, 20% health (Khajit passive to increase 10% critt damage helps + 20% increased critt from nightblade tree. this build will focus on critt + 5% critt bow passive + 6% increased critt rating passive from assassination tree)

 

Main bar – Bow

Consuming Darkness Ultimate  (escape ability + option to swap to 2^nd bar and kill counters of the bow bar)

Blur (or evasion) - M    (Protection against both ranged and melee)

Haste - M  (attack speed increase)

Aspect of Terror - M   (2 target fear, good when jumped by melees)

Arrow spray/volley - S     (aoe damage + 50% 5 s slow, or long ranged aoe ability)

Immovable - S    (invulnerable to cc and 20% damage reduction)

 

Also the itemization will focus on critt. I think normal or empowered attacks are a very important source of damage, and in most cases the main source (unless you have really high regeneration). From a distance, bow users will be able to repeatedly normal attack without being under pressure. Haste will be a major damage increase. With this build you do not need much regen, and can focus on power. If untargeted, arrow spray or volley will help with aoe, if this is needed.

The kiting comes from aspect of terror in combination with a dodge roll (and passive to get 70% movement speed for 2 s)  plus combination with immovable if needed. Then after the roll, arrow spray can be cast to do damage and slow the targets again . I think that aspect of terror will be more than a 2.75 second fear for two targets, because abilities level up. Since this ability does no damage, the fear duration must increase on level up making it a perfect ability to get at a distance again. Also the bow will be enchanted with a frost enchant.

The advantage of this build are:

-   You don’t need much stamina for abilities, which means more dodge rolls or constant immovable

-   You can kite multiple people

-   Lots of damage if untargeted

 

Secondary bar – Dual wield daggers

Death stroke - Ultimate (high single target damage, anti healer)

Mark target - M    (Tank destroy ability)

Assassins blade - M (finisher)

Teleport Strike - M (Gap closer)

Flurry - S (High damage ability)

Immovable - S  (unkitable)

 

Khajist is just too good for this second bar. The secondary bar is just high damage and chasing potential vs targets that would be the weakness of the bow bar. This bar will only be needed if you are up against a high burst mage, or a tank. The mark target will be very important to take down tanks. If it is a high damage reduction tank, it will not do much damage, meaning that you will kill him very quickly while he will not kill you very fast and won’t be able to cc you because of immovable.
Against mages it’s just teleport strike + Flurry + death stroke + assassins blade = dead in 4 seconds, then swap to bow again.

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The second build is better, I think, since it increases the survival against Mages. It is overall more defensive.

Nightblade – Breton – 2 medium armor, 5 heavy armor, 50% MP, 30% Stam, 20% HP (The Breton class is very nice against spells because of his ultimate, passive spell resistance and extra magicka, which helps for the Mage bar and also makes hunter abilities cheaper)

 

Main bar – Bow

Dragon skin - Ultimate   (increase survivability)

Blur (or evasion) - M   (Protection against both ranged and melee)

Haste - M      (attack speed increase)

Aspect of Terror - M (2 targets feared, good when jumped by melees)

Arrow spray/volley - S (aoe damage + 50% 5 s slow, or long ranged aoe ability)

Immovable - S  (invulnerable to cc and 20% damage reduction)

 

Second bar -  Resto staff

Barrier – Ultimate  (good pvp aoe shield)

Immovable - S (invulnerable to cc and 20% damage reduction)

Evasion  - M   (Protection against both ranged attacks and melee attacks)

Blessing of Protection - M   (Good aoe instant heal + a lot of extra resistances)

Cripple (or agony)– M    (kite ability + 8% max magicka from siphoning passive)

Regeneration – M  (Heal + Hot)

 

So this build, is almost the same for bow. Except that it’s better against mages. And the second bar can be used to bring support and healing to your frontline if needed, while also being able to kite. You will be more tanky overall with 5 pieces of heavy armor and the ability to selfheal.

 

Ahaa, okay, I see exactly where you're coming from! I like it, and I love that you use Aspect of Terror because I think there's going to be a pretty wicked morph for it. XD

 

I just don't think that Mark Target will help against armor. I think it's strictly a Magic Resistance remover. If this is the case, then I think replacing Mark+Blade with Haste+Siphoning Strikes would be better. But, if you're right that Mark Target removes armor then this would be epic.

 

I like your 2nd build a lot. I'd actually take Mark Target instead of Haste on your Bow bar for your Breton build if Mark is anti-armor, I think it'd give you more damage where you need it-against heavy users. Well, maybe even then Haste might be better against more people.

 

Anyway, I think I can see how you play and I like it. I'm looking forward to seeing a more final build from you when we're closer to release date.

 

Edit: Leveling up for Terror and such will take a while. Any plans for an early-game build?

[yerion]

Ahaa, okay, I see exactly where you're coming from! I like it, and I love that you use Aspect of Terror because I think there's going to be a pretty wicked morph for it. XD

 

I just don't think that Mark Target will help against armor. I think it's strictly a Magic Resistance remover. If this is the case, then I think replacing Mark+Blade with Haste+Siphoning Strikes would be better. But, if you're right that Mark Target removes armor then this would be epic.

 

I like your 2nd build a lot. I'd actually take Mark Target instead of Haste on your Bow bar for your Breton build if Mark is anti-armor, I think it'd give you more damage where you need it-against heavy users. Well, maybe even then Haste might be better against more people.

 

Anyway, I think I can see how you play and I like it. I'm looking forward to seeing a more final build from you when we're closer to release date.

 

Edit: Leveling up for Terror and such will take a while. Any plans for an early-game build?

 

Marked target says: "Your attacks ignore all of the target's resistances, but their attacks ignore all of your resistances". In most games armor is physical resistance. I hope this is the case. I originally had marked target on the bow bar, but it might replace haste, or I might even use both if aoe isnt that usefull in PVP. 

 

The newer spreadsheat that was link in the where do you get your info from section did give me some insights. Arrow spray seems stronger since there it states it is 20 y range instead of 12. It also showed the poison arrow change. That seems like a usefull single target damage ability (I would use the 250% damage increase, because almost every spell is instant). At least this answers you question about the early game build (poison arrow instead of immovable or something). But remember, early game doesnt mean anything its all about the lv 50 end game.

Also it states that evasion is 25% dodge now, and blur 22% miss. So I realy think blur will be better and that it works against something extra compared to evasion.

And it states that the breton ult " dragonskin"  works only against magic damage (it is a huge amount though) and only stays for 3 seconds. In that case I might use soul tear on the Bow bar, if mages seem to not be a weakness to the bow build. 

Edit: Soul Strike, not Soul tear. And it increases damage to chilled targets. Making this a good combo with the frost enchant on the bow.

 

I do agree that if marked target is only magic resistances I wouldnt use it. Now, I think I might even replace Assasins blade if the combo of TP strike + deathstroke + flurry + blade doesnt kill someone). So thanks for the tip. 

 

If buffs like blur or evation stay and marked target stay when switching bars, then that would be even more epic for this build, because it opens up more slots.

[Musclemagic]

Marked target says: "Your attacks ignore all of the target's resistances, but their attacks ignore all of your resistances". In most games armor is physical resistance. I hope this is the case. I originally had marked target on the bow bar, but it might replace haste, or I might even use both if aoe isnt that usefull in PVP. 

 

The newer spreadsheat that was link in the where do you get your info from section did give me some insights. Arrow spray seems stronger since there it states it is 20 y range instead of 12. It also showed the poison arrow change. That seems like a usefull single target damage ability (I would use the 250% damage increase, because almost every spell is instant). At least this answers you question about the early game build (poison arrow instead of immovable or something). But remember, early game doesnt mean anything its all about the lv 50 end game.

Also it states that evasion is 25% dodge now, and blur 22% miss. So I realy think blur will be better and that it works against something extra compared to evasion.

And it states that the breton ult " dragonskin"  works only against magic damage (it is a huge amount though) and only stays for 3 seconds. In that case I might use soul tear on the Bow bar, if mages seem to not be a weakness to the bow build. 

Edit: Soul Strike, not Soul tear. And it increases damage to chilled targets. Making this a good combo with the frost enchant on the bow.

 

I do agree that if marked target is only magic resistances I wouldnt use it. Now, I think I might even replace Assasins blade if the combo of TP strike + deathstroke + flurry + blade doesnt kill someone). So thanks for the tip. 

 

If buffs like blur or evation stay and marked target stay when switching bars, then that would be even more epic for this build, because it opens up more slots.

 

Yeah, I really hope that things stay when bars are swapped. I think they will, it's what the OP bars are entirely based on.

 

Armor in ESO is mitigation of all incoming damage, not just physical. Resistances are separate things, so unless the tooltip is just worded poorly then it probably won't apply to armor rating. Too early to rule anything out though.

 

This new spreadsheet is making some major changes for me as well.

 

I meant early-game for what you're going to use from the early skills in the trees, in order to reach the end-game things in those trees. Leveling up you're going to use things you have access to while keeping it spread between the 3 class trees mostly. I just want to get an idea of what you're planning, since level 50's hopefully at least a few weeks of gameplay away.

 

Blur and Evasion are weird. I thought that Miss chance would be something that applied to the enemy so that it helps everyone in the group, like Ash Field would..so having it on yourself, I don't see a distinction between Dodge and Miss on yourself only.

I think taking both of them will be pretty sweet for NB though, especially if you can keep them applied through Bar#2 like in the OP. One's ST and one's MP so it's almost a perfect balance when you use both.

[yerion]

I meant early-game for what you're going to use from the early skills in the trees, in order to reach the end-game things in those trees. Leveling up you're going to use things you have access to while keeping it spread between the 3 class trees mostly. I just want to get an idea of what you're planning, since level 50's hopefully at least a few weeks of gameplay away.

 

Eventhough I am all about PVP, I do love the skyrim feel of elder scrolls, and might just enjoy the leveling experience. I think i'll use whatever ability to unluck summon shade, and then use summon shade untill I unlock everything.

(maybe ill do some lv 10 PVP and use shadow cloak + veiled strike)

 

Edit: Are you sure armor protects again magic damage?!?!

[Musclemagic]

Eventhough I am all about PVP, I do love the skyrim feel of elder scrolls, and might just enjoy the leveling experience. I think i'll use whatever ability to unluck summon shade, and then use summon shade untill I unlock everything.

(maybe ill do some lv 10 PVP and use shadow cloak + veiled strike)

 

Edit: Are you sure armor protects again magic damage?!?!

 

Ah, I'm just going to use the first 3 abilities from each class tree on the most fitting bar I can put them. I just want to get leveling over with as fast as I can. Check out my new post on the Temp thread.

 

Not sure of anything, but that's the word on the street.

[Terhix]

 

Your builds are ones that I can see exactly where you're coming from, I like them a lot.

 

Your PVE Tank Bar:

I'd grab a couple pieces of Medium and take Evasion instead of either Strife or Siphoning Strikes-probably Strife because I think it would offer more survival in group settings when you already have a healer (which is where you'd be PVE tanking, yeah?)  But, on the other hand, that PVE tank bar doesn't look very resource intensive so you might be able to swap out Siphoning Strikes for Evasion fairly easily.

 

I really really like Evasion, if it's not your style then I hear you though (which, I don't think it is--since you're thinking of replacing Blur with Shade. Shade's not quite as good though for general tanking, since it only affects 1 target and it's 15%. But, Shade might be better for bosses where that 1 target is fuckign everyone else up at the same time, 15% less dmg is big.. but then Low Slash might be better, but with Immovable/Puncture you probably won't have the ST to use it... the bar's actually pretty balanced now, but I'd actually replace Siphoning Strike with Shade after thinking about it more.. idk, haha, just food for thought.)

 

Your PVE 2H Bar:

Power Drain + Cleave for big AOE damage? Single target's going to be a bitch for you. Strife-spam is too expensive because the cost's balanced around getting the full-duration HOT. (Cripple = 25 dmg over 8.5s, slows them and speeds you up - +8 ult with Transfer passive-. Strife = 11 damage, 16 healing over 10 seconds - 19 healing with Soul Siphoner passive and +1 ult with Transfer passive.-) 

 

I know you like Strife but both your PVE bars look like they're made for group activity, I think more mitigation is better for the tank than trying to help the healer and then I think more damage is better for the 2H bar. I'd take a single-target damager, like Uppercut or Reverse Slash since your other ST spam is AOE.

 

I really believe that focusing on a specific role is key to group success. I mean, I know that Strife is spammable so for 2H single-target it is good damage potential, and then Strife as a tank is good because it does damage and it helps you survive but I think that the extra survival outweighs the heal, and the damage as a tank isn't as important as surviving and controlling.

 

For PVP bars:

Mine will all change 1000 times too, haha, especially when Undaunted, Emperor, and the Diseased trees are leaked/becoming more commonplace in-game.

 

I really like your PvP bars. I was going to say that you'll probably have a surplus of MP with your S&S bar, but you can just spam Strife in that case.

 

Yeah, I'm not sold on the PvE bars at all, a lot of that depends on so many variables: can I keep the selfbuffs without siphoning strikes nor spending points in stamina/magicka? Do I even need to keep them up at all times, or am I okay to keep maybe one, and pop rest during heavy damage phases? Is puncture enough for agro, or should I grab some aoe for trash? Regarding that last one, that's why I made my 2h set aoe centric, it should still have some single target dps just with regular / power attacks with momentum and haste, but I don't intend to dps with it, it's more of a secondary mode to switch to when dealing with plenty of annoying trash. Solo / leveling  load-outs would be naturally different.

 

I can definitely drop Strife from tanking build, I was thinking exactly the same - more mitigation would most likely be more beneficial with a healer around. I only put it there because I just love the sheer idea of the skill - in general being a dot casting, life sucking tank is something I've really liked in Rift (Reaver), and wasn't able to play in an MMO since.

[Eol]

A question about nightblade skills: what exactly is a 'heavy or light attack' (see below)? What weapon types does it exclude, if any? I know heavy and light are used to describe armor in ES games, but weapons???

 

Haste 1

[*]Instant
[*]Self
[*]56 magicka
[*]For 17 seconds - increase attack speed with heavy and light attacks by 30%
[/list]

[yerion]

[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"]Have you ever played any of the other elder scrolls games? You can attack with a mouseclick (which is a normal attack) and you can hold the mouse button for an empowered attack. In ESO these are called light attacks and heavy attacks. With every weapon you can do these charged/heavy attacks.[/font]

 

[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"]Edit: I found this on tamriel foundry --> [color=rgb(204,204,204);]Blocking an enemy’s power attack will stagger the foe for a brief time. This was said in the context of a pve situation, but I think it also counts for pvp. So heavy attacks do more damages, but you charge them giving your opponent a time to react (this can really backfire in pvp). Both types of attack do not cost stamina.[/color][/font]

[Musclemagic]

[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"]Have you ever played any of the other elder scrolls games? You can attack with a mouseclick (which is a normal attack) and you can hold the mouse button for an empowered attack. In ESO these are called light attacks and heavy attacks. With every weapon you can do these charged/heavy attacks.[/font]

 

[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"]Edit: I found this on tamriel foundry --> [color=rgb(204,204,204);]Blocking an enemy’s power attack will stagger the foe for a brief time. This was said in the context of a pve situation, but I think it also counts for pvp. So heavy attacks do more damages, but you charge them giving your opponent a time to react (this can really backfire in pvp). Both types of attack do not cost stamina.[/color][/font]

 

But, Blocking does consume stamina. Just a side-note.

[Xenon]

power attacks are when your target is already CC'd.

 

(like if you block HIS power attack to set him off balance, you follow up with a power attack of your own that he is unable to block since he is off balance... a power attack will exploit the off balance state and knock down the target- giving you even more time to possible charge up a second power attack that can't be blocked).

[Musclemagic]

power attacks are when your target is already CC'd.

 

(like if you block HIS power attack to set him off balance, you follow up with a power attack of your own that he is unable to block since he is off balance... a power attack will exploit the off balance state and knock down the target- giving you even more time to possible charge up a second power attack that can't be blocked).

 

Yeah, I'm excited for an MMO where there's a lot of combat tactic. It's going to be bad ass.

At first it will be a cluster of getting out of CC, blocking their power attack (that can't be cancelled--but can it be aimed away right before it goes off to make someone waste a block? Juking in ESO = discovered?), and then returning with another power attack when they are off balance...or, it will just be a bunch of light attacks. Another way it could go is that people will really only use ranged power-attacks and then light attacks with melee. Either way, I think they'll end up buffing melee power attacks at some point because of this mechanic.

 

Edit: Nevermind, melee power attacks won't need a buff. I forgot that resistances would mitigate Destro staff(Making Mark Target into a probably very good spell for Destro users) damage.. and then as long as Bow's damage isn't as high as melee weapons, things should be pretty even.

[Xenon]

I just hope combat will be more interesting when playing the game than when watching others play.

 

1) doesn't seem to be any collision detection (you can run straight through your opponent - but you get stuck on small rocks and other environmental debris)

2) either the game have [or at least had back in September] serious latency/netcode/hitreg issues or everyone have huge hitboxes that let you hit even when you visually are several meters away from your target.

3) game also seem to have "auto aim" (or at least soft aim or aim assist) where you "lock" on a target and your arrows connect even if you aim is [slightly] off.

[Terhix]

I just hope combat will be more interesting when playing the game than when watching others play.

 

1) doesn't seem to be any collision detection (you can run straight through your opponent - but you get stuck on small rocks and other environmental debris)

2) either the game have [or at least had back in September] serious latency/netcode/hitreg issues or everyone have huge hitboxes that let you hit even when you visually are several meters away from your target.

3) game also seem to have "auto aim" (or at least soft aim or aim assist) where you "lock" on a target and your arrows connect even if you aim is [slightly] off.

 

All of that is normal and expected in an MMO. You can have collision detection and aiming in 3d environment in a small scale combat where a lot of logic is handled by client side (not to mention single player games where networking isn't a problem at all). I still have nightmares over how badly collision detection was implemented in Warhammer, and even when it did work, it barely fulfilled the promise of making the combat any richer.

[Eol]

[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"]Have you ever played any of the other elder scrolls games? You can attack with a mouseclick (which is a normal attack) and you can hold the mouse button for an empowered attack. In ESO these are called light attacks and heavy attacks. With every weapon you can do these charged/heavy attacks.[/font]

 

[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"]Edit: I found this on tamriel foundry --> [color=rgb(204,204,204);]Blocking an enemy’s power attack will stagger the foe for a brief time. This was said in the context of a pve situation, but I think it also counts for pvp. So heavy attacks do more damages, but you charge them giving your opponent a time to react (this can really backfire in pvp). Both types of attack do not cost stamina.[/color][/font]

 

Yes, I have played all of the ES games but the first one. But I didn't know they had changed the terminology for ESO from 'power attack' to 'heavy attack'. I wonder why they did that? Anyway, thanks for the answer.

[Terhix]

I was contemplating one thing for my tanking PvP load out, namely replacing Cripple with Entropy from Mages Guild, so it would look something like:

 

1 - Low Slash (stamina, -20% weapon damage, -60% movement speed)

2 - Shield Charge (stamina, charge+stun)

3 - Immovable (stamina, I'm teh juggernaut)

4 - Entropy (magicka, dot + small heal)

5 - Strife (magicka, damage + hot)

 

U - Death Stroke

 

Depending on how effective Low Slash is going to be compared to Cripple as a snare (I'll still keep Cripple on my alternative bar), I might get rid of it and put Cripple back in and roll around with 3 magicka abilities.

 

Entropy is interesting, since it's 14 damage and 12 healing over 12 seconds, nothing crazy compared to 11 instant damage and 19-ish healing over 10 from Strife, however the base cost of Entropy is only 29 magicka, and that goes down to 25 with a Passive, and the duration (and I guess total damage as well) goes up by 20% with another (not the healing part apparently, since the healing ticks once every 6 seconds, so 20% duration boost doesn't help). All in all it makes it a very efficient spell, and then there is something I completely overlooked: a passive that increases damage done with a spell cast /after/ any mages guild spell by 15%, which means I can combo Entropy -> Strife to get that extra bit of damage and extra bit of healing out of Strife as a result. That's can be quite some healing, and it's bloody efficient.