Min/Max Combos (Very Early Theorycrafting)

[irons]

Ye, running around with that much unused magicka seems foolish. So perhaps something like 4/5 of my skills should be stamina consuming.And the magicka skill should preferably be a resource dump. I guess most skills in this game could be used as dumps, but there are some less situational than others. I'll have to think about this some more.

I don't know your build but maybe you could to well with Obsidian Shield. It's an AoE dmg shield which is twice as strong for the DK and you gain stamina when using it on other players.

[Thal]

Hey guys,I've been following your comments about various possibilities for Tanks and want to throw a couple ideas your way to see what you think. With what we know so far I'm leaning toward either a DK or Templar tank. I also intend to duo tank with a replica set up for my brother. I want to use both stamina and magicka in my builds but I believe that stamina needs to be preferenced as the importance of blocking cannot be undervalued and despite cost reductions to it - blocking will still require significant stamina to maintain in long fights or fights against multiple opponents.Before I type out my two suggested builds, I just want to say I have also made a big decision to include the heavy armour active skill "Immovable" for both builds. I believe the extra mitigation and CC immunity is vital so long as it is possible to maintain the effects constantly despite the fact that it will chew through huge amounts of stamina. Most DPS is going to be done to a tank when you are stunned/disabled because let's face it - there is nothing to stop a tank being chain-stunned and dps'ed down. Plus when you're disabled/stunned you are unable to block or even dodge which means incoming damage is naturally increased and everyone, I mean everyone with half a brain, opens up with their big combos and skills on a target once it is stunned as they know their skills will land for certain.Hence these are my two proposed builds (both attempting to keep "Immovable" active constantly when in combat):Note: These builds are for PVP and the Templar build is meant to be used as a duo with another templar who has the same set up. Ultimates are not being considered here as they are not reliable as finesse can be gained and lost in battle and therefore are not skills that are certainties

TEMPLAR TANK:Race: RedguardEquipment: Sword and ShieldArmour: Full Heavy armourStat distribution from leveling: Stamina maxed; rest on magickaStats on armour: Primary stat is health; secondary stat is stamina regen (though not sure how many stats gear can have at this point)Skills: 1. Low Slash. 2. Shield charge 3.Rune focus 4. Healing Ritual 5. ImmovablePassives: 1. Heal line for templar passives (especially Focused Healing!!!) 2. Sword and board passives

3. Restoring Spirit 4. Redguard racial passivesWith two Templars using this set up, both have CC immunity, both have a slow and a charge skill with 2s stun, both have high mitigation, and if both stand next to each other and routinely use Rune focus followed by Healing Ritual, not only will they not be able to be stunned or interrupted, but thanks to the heal skill and the Focused Healing passive, they will both receive huge huge heals from this combination which takes 2 seconds to execute and will have 30% extra mits while executing the heal. The passives which reduces magicka cost for healing ritual and relatively low magicka cost of rune focus makes it a relatively cost-effective use of magicka for heals as well as not requiring heals to often thanks to mitigation supplied by immovable (20%) and heavy armour + sword and board. The question is whether stamina regen can keep up with use though redguard passives ensure greater stamina, stamina regen and stamina on normal attack use.Note: if stamina regen was not sufficient to maintain Immovable constantly: use the following instead at the sacrifice of much less effective heals:

1. Low Slash.2. Shield charge3.Rushed Ceremony4. Restoring Aura5. ImmovableRushed ceremony has less effective and more costly heal that does not best utilise the heal line passives, but restoring aura may provide much needed extra stamina (as well as health) regen.Dragon Knight TANK BUILD:

Race: RedguardEquipment: Sword and ShieldArmour: Full Heavy armourStat distribution from leveling: Stamina maxed; rest on magickaStats on armour: Primary stat is health; secondary stat is stamina regen (though not sure how many stats gear can have at this point)Skills: 1. Low Slash. 2. Shield charge 3.Spiked Armour 4. Obsidian Shield 5. ImmovablePassives: 1. Draconic Power passives 2. Sword and board passives 3. Earthern passives 4. Redguard racial passivesAgain with this Build for a tank - there is CC immunity. However, with the DK tank there is significantly greater mitigation thanks to Spiked Armour and Obsidian Shield. Both skills use magicka but are relatively cheap to use, especially since Spiked Armour only has to be used every 17s. The DK class passives add to mitigation and stamina return also. However, the big disadvantage is the lack of heals. I could trade out Obsidian shield for a heal but the DK class heal skills seem expensive (in regard to magicka cost) and don't give too much in the way of heals. Of course, not an issue if I'm running around not only with my brother but with a dedicated healer too (in which case DK passives will help with incoming heal anyway).In Conclusion:As I said, I want this to be a PvP intended Tank and want to run as a 2-man self sufficient squad with my one other player who uses a similar or exact copy of my own set up.I have not included a Secondary Weapon Swap as I will most likely use the Weapon Swap for a ranged weapon (Bow most likely) for situation when literally MUST stay at range, e.g. on the wall of a friendly keep.If you guys see flaws with either builds or better alternatives, PLEASE feel free to be as critical as you wish. I am open to all comments on these builds and welcome feedback. Even if you can suggest opponent set ups that could cause trouble in PvP for these builds. And yes, I really do love the idea of CC immunity given how many classes will rely on being able to CC others in PvP so I am not too willing or keen to give up on the idea of a sustained use of "Immovable". :PThanks guys!(P.S. Sorry for the enormous post)

[irons]

If you to play together with your brother I would use an alternate build, so that you have the same skills but different hotbars.

 

 

DK Redguard build 2 Handed:

 

The skills you wanna use are.

 

Immovable

Dark Talon

Ash Field

Obsidian Shield

Inferno

Fiery Reach

Lava Whip

Inhale

Momentum

...

...

 

For the last to 2 skills you could take pretty much anything.

 

 

Playstyle.

 

1. Use Obsidian Shield to protect you and your brothe, activate Immovable + Momentum

2. Use fiery reach to pull enemys to you

3. Activate inferno to deal dmg

4. use dark talon to immobolize them + deal dmg

5. use ashfield so that they can't hurt you

6. use lava whip to keep them of balance

 

Basically you keep them cain CC, you use Immovable to be immune to CC and you use Obsidian shield + Ash field so that you take less dmg + you deal a punch of AoE dmg through Inhale,Dark Talon, Inferno and Splash dmg from your 2Hander + they are perma snared through Inferno and Ash Field.

[Rally]

I thought abt some build like that aswell (Dark Talons, Ash Field, Inferno, Inhale)

 

I would have put a DW Sorc with Lightning Form, Lightning Splash and Mages Fury in the Mix. Should work well to finish ppl of faster with DW Passivs Death Stroke and Ruffian.So in the end u better get a complete 4 man grp with 2 of the above 1 dedicated healer and 1 DW SorcThen Just Bomb Ppl

[irons]

A other thingWhen you swap weapon sets you put away your weapon and pull out your other weapon which takes about a second.But what if you use only 1 weapon does your skillbar than change instantly?

[Soaks]

I don't know your build but maybe you could to well with Obsidian Shield. It's an AoE dmg shield which is twice as strong for the DK and you gain stamina when using it on other players.

Ye, that sounds sweet. It doesn't go towards solving the lack of AoE, though. So perhaps I'll have to swap it out when fighting trash.

 

Based on my experience in other mmos AoE tanking requires a great deal of AoE damage. In for instance WoW, Warrior-tanking without thunderclap would be a pain.

I understand that threat will work differently from any other games I've played, so perhaps its not as big of an issue as I think?

 

I hope someone will make an add-on which would allow you to save and change skill set-ups by pushing a button. That would allow for some fun strategic gameplay.

[Thal]

 

1. Use Obsidian Shield to protect you and your brothe, activate Immovable + Momentum

2. Use fiery reach to pull enemys to you

3. Activate inferno to deal dmg

4. use dark talon to immobolize them + deal dmg

5. use ashfield so that they can't hurt you

6. use lava whip to keep them of balance

 

Basically you keep them cain CC, you use Immovable to be immune to CC and you use Obsidian shield + Ash field so that you take less dmg + you deal a punch of AoE dmg through Inhale,Dark Talon, Inferno and Splash dmg from your 2Hander + they are perma snared through Inferno and Ash Field.

Thanks for the input! I do like the idea of so much AoE especially given that we're likely to run into enemy players that are probably mostly going to be sticking together in large raids. I think you're right about needing to include way more aoe skills and I guess the splash damage on 2-handers is pretty decent for dealing out the damage.I did have one question though, I have been always assuming that we had to slot at least 2 "weapon" skills and could only have 3 of our 5 skills as "class" or "other" skills. Is this true or can we make the 5 skills up from totally class skills for example?

[irons]

No you can freely pick your abilities. So if you want you could go without any skills from your class.

[irons]

Ye, that sounds sweet. It doesn't go towards solving the lack of AoE, though. So perhaps I'll have to swap it out when fighting trash.Based on my experience in other mmos AoE tanking requires a great deal of AoE damage. In for instance WoW, Warrior-tanking without thunderclap would be a pain.I understand that threat will work differently from any other games I've played, so perhaps its not as big of an issue as I think?I hope someone will make an add-on which would allow you to save and change skill set-ups by pushing a button. That would allow for some fun strategic gameplay.

Obsidian Shield is an AoE dmg shield not an AoE dmg ability.

[irons]

I think AoE tanking will be more about CC than about pure dmg.

[irons]

I could see ESO beeing some how like GW2 where a group is strongest when they all stand at 1point.Just think about all the great support skills most of them are AoE, when you stand as a group you easily activate synergies the tank is close to group and can take over the aggro faster. So basically I could see it work like this.The group stays behind, preferable in a edge where they are safe of range attacks.The tank runs in hits the mobs and runs back to the group where the fight starts.

[Musclemagic]

Hey guys,I've been following your comments about various possibilities for Tanks and want to throw a couple ideas your way to see what you think. With what we know so far I'm leaning toward either a DK or Templar tank. 

 

.... [Long post]

 

I read your post and I like your ideas, most if it we'll just need to wait and see how it plays out in end-game.

My opinion-

For 2h I would go Nightblade. 1h/shield tanking is best fit on a DK.

I also really wouldn't recommend having two people similarly skilled on the same team, there's too much synergy in this game that you really should try to be diverse to overcome as many situations as you can.

 

Utility Temp/Summoning Mage will most likely be the strongest 2 man group in PVE. I firmly believe this to be true.

 

Irons point of wanting to have Stam and Magicka is a point well taken, at least enough to use the stat you use least up so it doesn't go to waste. My real concern is that between bracing, power attacks, dodge rolls, sprinting, stealthing, etc... if you wouldn't use all of it even at endgame during combat? Does it scale at all with how much you have, or is it constant--in which case it's unlikely we'd use it all just on those mechanics...

This right there makes me re-think my strategy of using both staves....

 

I really get the feeling that at endgame through the gear's enchants (Well, unless it is entirely +stats and not +damage types or anything...) that I'll probably only be using one weapon's bar 80% of the time anyway.

[Musclemagic]

I could see ESO beeing some how like GW2 where a group is strongest when they all stand at 1point.Just think about all the great support skills most of them are AoE, when you stand as a group you easily activate synergies the tank is close to group and can take over the aggro faster.So basically I could see it work like this.The group stays behind, preferable in a edge where they are safe of range attacks.The tank runs in hits the mobs and runs back to the group where the fight starts.

 

This is similar to how I see it. Focusing fire is always the best way to deal with hard packs, starting with trash as long as the big guys are being tanked.. No matter how bad ESO wants to be different without relying on taunts and traditional aggro it's still going to have similar enough mechanics that we can predict how some things have to be...and yeah, definitely stacking will be the best. I'm really curious if multi-boxing will be allowed because with just 6 skills it could be very easy to make a very efficient multiboxing setup that could dominate pretty dang hard in ESO.. =

[irons]

I don't believe that they will allow multiboxing.

[irons]

For everyone who is unsure what class he should pick here is my view on them.Templer:Is the best overall class.If you are unsure what role you wanna play pick Templer they can play them all and are good at them.You can be a good Tank, Dps, ... however some other classes will simply be better at some of those roles.Nightblade:Is the best single target Dps class.If you want do deal the most possible dmg on a target Nightblade is the way to go.However Nightblades lack AoE you have access via your weapon skills but you can't compete with others when it comes to AoE.Dragonknight:The best Tank and Tanky melee Dps class.DK's have great survibility and a good dmg output which makes them the perfect choise if you like tanking or melee combat.But don't expect them to be that great at range this class really excels in close combat.Sorccerer:Is the most tricky/fun class.If you want to troll others in PvP sorc should be your class of choise.

[Musclemagic]

For everyone who is unsure what class he should pick here is my view on them.Templer:Is the best overall class.If you are unsure what role you wanna play pick Templer they can play them all and are good at them.You can be a good Tank, Dps, ... however some other classes will simply be better at some of those roles.Nightblade:Is the best single target Dps class.If you want do deal the most possible dmg on a target Nightblade is the way to go.However Nightblades lack AoE you have access via your weapon skills but you can't compete with others when it comes to AoE.Dragonknight:The best Tank and Tanky melee Dps class.DK's have great survibility and a good dmg output which makes them the perfect choise if you like tanking or melee combat.But don't expect them to be that great at range this class really excels in close combat.Sorccerer:Is the most tricky/fun class.If you want to troll others in PvP sorc should be your class of choise.

 

idk if I agree entirely, there are so many niche's that each class can fill better than the next. Even changing one weapon or armor ability on one bar could change which class you should be using.

 

NB for burst // DoT+HoT // sneak playstyle. Sorc for pets // burst // CC. DK is for any heavy armor user, passive health regen, passive tanking, better in melee range. Templar should only be your choice if you want to heal others and you don't want to only use a Resto Staff-- If you aren't in it to heal others, you're better off using another class. If you want to be a templar to self-heal then play a DK instead of Templar, their self-heals are the best. Templar is a good reaction based class, if you are an offensive player who likes to overwhelm the enemy then don't play a temp... I would actually say that templar is the best "trolling" class just to fuck with people.

[Luke]

Don't forget that you have a second set of abilities which means that you basically have 12 abilities.

That's good, although i still think that having 2 more actives plus 1 ultimate per set would be epic. I appreciate that the reason of having 5 actives plus 1 ultimate is to give you a better view of the environment; it's just that with there being so many incredible abilities i want as many to use as possible.

 

What would you guys say to having the option of slotting an active ability into an ultimate slot? I have been thinking about my nightblade skills and the thought came to me that sometimes an extra active ability might be more useful than an ultimate. I know this might seem crazy as ultimate abilities have awesome powers, but in comparison to stamina and magicka spells they are costly so having an extra active abililty might give you an advantage. What do you think?

[irons]

That's good, although i still think that having 2 more actives plus 1 ultimate per set would be epic. I appreciate that the reason of having 5 actives plus 1 ultimate is to give you a better view of the environment; it's just that with there being so many incredible abilities i want as many to use as possible. What would you guys say to having the option of slotting an active ability into an ultimate slot? I have been thinking about my nightblade skills and the thought came to me that sometimes an extra active ability might be more useful than an ultimate. I know this might seem crazy as ultimate abilities have awesome powers, but in comparison to stamina and magicka spells they are costly so having an extra active abililty might give you an advantage. What do you think?

I know that feeling that 2 more actives would be great. The ultimate doesn't cost stamina or magicka and is basically a free skill which you can use from time to time.Maybe they add a 6th slot some time after lunch if they get the feedback that it is needed. But keep in mind the less skills you can choose the more important is your choise.

[Musclemagic]

It's the same reason that Diablo 3 plays with 6 abilities. It works best for console controllers.

 

I do wish that we could put a regular ability in an ultimate slot, it would screw people over who don't use an ultimate. A whole resource gone to waste, using more of your magicka/stamina instead of having an epic game-changing ability to use strategically.

 

I love being forced to make decisions! This is where theorycrafters trump in PvP.

[Luke]

 

I do wish that we could put a regular ability in an ultimate slot, it would screw people over who don't use an ultimate. A whole resource gone to waste, using more of your magicka/stamina instead of having an epic game-changing ability to use strategically.

Muscle, it was my intention to have an ultimate slotted in set 1 and actives in set 2. Clearly it would be retarded to not have an ultimate ability slotted. I was under the impression that ultimates had a high cost to make them not spammable, meaning that an active ability, though maybe less powerful, would be more efficient in certain situations.

 

No need for sarcasm. You just reminded me why i stopped playing mmos.

[Musclemagic]

Muscle, it was my intention to have an ultimate slotted in set 1 and actives in set 2. Clearly it would be retarded to not have an ultimate ability slotted. I was under the impression that ultimates had a high cost to make them not spammable, meaning that an active ability, though maybe less powerful, would be more efficient in certain situations.

 

No need for sarcasm. You just reminded me why i stopped playing mmos.

 

That's a good idea, usually only one ultimate really fits a character's playstyle anyway. I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I really do wish it was possible; I like having less choices because it forces thoughts but I also think that if something's available for a slot then it shouldn't be constrained to one type of ability.

 

I really didn't mean to offend you... If you're that touchy then not playing MMOs is a good idea. XD

[Musclemagic]

....

I hope someone will make an add-on which would allow you to save and change skill set-ups by pushing a button. That would allow for some fun strategic gameplay.

 

I'm so stoked for addons. I hope it's easy to port to PS4 since it'll nearly be the same code as PC now.

 

I keep considering playing on PC instead of console, but I really want to be able to play on my couch instead of using a keyboard/mouse. I know I could get a controller for my PC but then I'd feel gimped.

[Musclemagic]

Some NB ideas (I know that these don't matter until we know what the Plague trees are)

 

Khajiit - Crits do extra damage (solid number, not %, so MORE crits are better than bigger crits.)

Medium Armor - More stamina regeneration, quicker movement, quicker kills and better utility. Unless you're tanking or just relying on health regen,  medium > heavy.

 

Dual Wield - Dual wield > 2H for this build for two reasons: More hits = more often crits, and, targets under 25% health take 20% more damage + assassin's blade/death stroke = you can finish people off like a boss.

Strife - damage  (always on)

Cripple - slow  (always on)

Flurry - 6 hits (use after teleport-strike)

Teleport Strike (closes distances or sets up flurry)

Assassin's Blade (use when low)

*Death Stroke (use when you have high enough ult to combo this into an assassin's blade for a kill)

 

Bow - Stay stealthed a lot of the time so people won't know your general location when you open on them.

weighted Shot - Interrupt

Scatter Shot - Close KB/Slow

Snipe - Fun, use first from stealth.

Haste - Use before swapping to DW

Summon Shade - Use once the enemy finds you.

*Consuming Darkness

 

Or, another cool NB would be to use that bow setup and then use Sword/Board instead of DW. In this case you'd use HEAVY armor and rely on health regeneration as well as HOT's from your Siphoning tree.

It would be very tanky and sticky melee, fun to play.

 

Sword/Board

Defensive Posture

Summon Shade

Strife

Low Slash

Teleport Strike

*Death Stroke

 

Breton would be a good choice. Heavy armor.

 

Resto Staff

Haste (Incrs basic attack speed)

Strife (Heal on DOT)

Force Siphon (Heal on basic attacks)

Entropy (Restore Magicka on DOT)

Regeneration (Self-HOT)

*Soul Shred

[Musclemagic]

Here's part of a conversation that Doczero and I had. I think some people might be wondering the same things:

 

" which race passives (and why) would be best for my

pve summoning sorc? 

I was hoping to build one weapon skilll line (morphed up) for high damage to go along with my cc and pets. I suppose it should be one of the destr
staff type (not sure which one tho). What would be fun for me is to have a bow as second weapon just use dump my unused stamina.

If I plan on keep all my pets out while at range I was thinking:
2.5 point per level into magicka
1.5 point per level into health
1 into stamina.

once in game would tweek it depending if my health bar is always full dpot the .5 point into magicka for more spamming or stamina for more slealthing.

I do believe what you said about passives being a be key, so that bring me back to the question for pve which race passives are best for a summoning sorcerer? thank you for any help or advice"

 

"It depends a LOT on your playstyle. Do you have any idea what spells you plan on using?

 

Since you're looking for heavy magicka on a sorce then you must be looking to overwhelm the opponent in which case I'd suggest a build like this:

 

Bar 1: Resto Staff

-Pet 1

-Pet 2

-Regeneration

-Entropy

-Force Siphon

 

Bar 2: Destro Staff (I really think that through heavy attacks, dodge rolls, bracing, sprinting, sneaking, etc.. you'll have more than enough uses for stamina.)

-Mages Fury

-Daedric Curse

-Magelight

-Bolt Escape

-Daedric Mines

 

 

Keep your pets and magelight out whenever in combat areas, if you get opened on then use Regeneration, Entropy, and activate Force Siphon before switching to Destro Staff..

Once you switch to Destro staff then use Daedric Mines (maybe not if they're not melee--since they probably won't run into it unless you are really good at placing) and Daedric Curse right away, using Heavy Attack until they get caught in a Daedric Mine--which is when you'll use Mage's Fury because they take more damage when they're affected by a Dark spell. If they get too close use Bolt Escape.

 

It's such a huge amount of damage output, enough self-healing, and if you build your class how you say you will then you should be able to pull it off really well (a lot of magicka).

 

I'd definitely say you should be a High Elf, not only will the +%magicka synergize with your high MP really well but you get +lightning damage (your Mage's Fury will be your biggest killer).

 

It's true that you don't have much utility or offensive defense, but your pets and magelight out will make you so beastly..it's a fair trade off. They take up a lot of barspace so if you want to use pets then that's the price you pay.

 

I wouldn't recommend any cloth-armor user to not have magelight. It works on stealth AND invisibility.

 

Like I said in the beginning..it depends on your playstyle. If you don't like only having the ability to escape, rather than the ability to CC or to tank, (or really chase for that matter--just get a horse that's 100% speed and you should be fine on chasing) then you might want to choose different abilities.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about point distribution, it will be easy to get a feel for what you need for your character while leveling up. Can't go wrong with more MP though... so maybe instead of using Force Siphon (since 3% of low HP isn't much, and solid numbers are better if you're not high HP) you might want to throw magelight down there and then use an ability from the Destro Line.

 

The destro passives are better for sorce's than the bow passives.. unless you don't want to heal at all, then throw out the Resto staff and put a bow in there, between the bow +sprint speed after dodge-roll and Bolt Escape you'll be able to outrun pretty much anyone when things get hairy.

 

Bow on sorce is a good choice as well because you can encase and get bigger crits, if you're going to use a bow on a sorce then play a Khajiit for the +crit damage.

 

I need more information though to really give you solid advice."

 

Here's the thing though, there are so many unknown spells out there. The PVP ones are almost necessary (at least the passives are) in Cyrodiil, and the Vamp/Lycan ones (or whatever other infections they put in!) are probably going to have at least one ability that you'll want to use.

 

At this point there's not much else you can really decide other than 1) What class playstyle I like most (pets - in your case - I'm guessing) 2) What weapons I want to use. 2.5) Armor choice. 3) What race is best with your weapon/class combo.

 

Obviously you'll need to choose what armor..but if you're able to pick your class and weapon then the armor part should be an obvious pick at that point.

 

Beyond those choices, exact skills are meaningless.

 

To be honest I believe that the best class will be a siphoning nightblade with a resto staff..but then the passives that NB have access to aren't that great for a caster NB, and like we said..the passives are going to be the biggest game-changers because that's where all the synergy happens.

 

At this point there's not much to really tell you, but it's still fun to theorycraft it. 

 

 

ps- Lightning or Frost staff will be best, I think there will be a lot of Nords so the Frost Staff might not be quite as good.. but because fire-damage is so common in ESO, that's the resistance that most people will have. I'm a fan of lightning, but Mage's Fury is already lightning so you might want to mix it up to Frost if you are using Mage's Fury (which every sorce should, that finishing power is amazing.)"

 

Fire staff would be good just to lower resistances, lightning's kind of lame because it deals damage to two targets in a game where it seems that single-target is more functional unless you're tanking.

 

There are a lot of self-critiques I would make on what I said even, just from scanning over it now... But it's all just fun to think about at this point! ^.^

 

 

TLDR: Best PVE race for Sorce that's magicka heavy = Altmer.

[Soaks]

I'm so stoked for addons. I hope it's easy to port to PS4 since it'll nearly be the same code as PC now.

 

I keep considering playing on PC instead of console, but I really want to be able to play on my couch instead of using a keyboard/mouse. I know I could get a controller for my PC but then I'd feel gimped.

 

Won't you miss the social part of it?  Cyrodiil must be a total zergfest when most of the players doesn't even have a keyboard. I know how important communication was in WWW in GW2. I'm guessing it will be at least as important in ESO.

 

I'm a bit worried that they will make the PvE facerolling easy because of the lack of communication between console players. If they do take console players into consideration, I fear it might end up even more casual than WoW is nowadays :S