Min/Max Combos (Very Early Theorycrafting)

[Xenon]

I was aiming my question to someone that actually know.

 

You seem to be answering by just going by feeling

and looking for ways to exploit game mechanics

[Musclemagic]

I was aiming my question to someone that actually know.

 

You seem to be answering by just going by feeling

and looking for ways to exploit game mechanics

 

Using game mechanics to your advantage is key to being good in any game. Nobody "knows" anything (not without breaking the NDA they agreed to adhere by.)

 

I'm not claiming to know anything, I even said that it was just an opinion.. Are you offended that I like discussing potentials, which is the only thing that any of us are here discussing to begin with? Do you realize that everything could completely change by beta anyway?

 

I'll continue to reply to posts until a mod tells me not to, because it's all fun and it's constructive in the sense that it gives us some game-mentality even if it won't directly apply to ESO when it's live..

 

This post of yours, on the other hand, isn't constructive in any sense. I like your other posts, but if you have a personal problem with my posts, please continue this discussion in PM's.

[Xenon]

I can make well educated guesswork on my own, don't really need a forum for that.

 

I've watched and analyzed over 5 hours of leaked in-game photo by now.

I came here to share and discuss what we actually do *know*.

 

A lot of other people on this site seem to *know* quite a lot. 

My question above was directed to one of them.

 

 

I don't mind you posting. Not at all. Posting is what forums are all about after all

Before I was simply not sure if the things you posted were actual leaked information or pure guesswork. 

 

 

I apologize if my posts came off rude.

[irons]

The cost of abilities depend on your lvl.

 

In Cyrodil your lvl gets increased to 50 so gets your stats, which also means that they skills cost increase.

 

You don't unlock skills just by going into Cyrodil you have only those skills available which you unlock.

 

 

Than the ability lvls but not past 5 (morph) and they don't grow stronger. They only get stronger depending on your lvl.

 

The same thing is with entchanments they also get stronger while you lvl up.

[Musclemagic]

The cost of abilities depend on your lvl.

 

In Cyrodil your lvl gets increased to 50 so gets your stats, which also means that they skills cost increase.

 

You don't unlock skills just by going into Cyrodil you have only those skills available which you unlock.

 

 

Than the ability lvls but not past 5 (morph) and they don't grow stronger. They only get stronger depending on your lvl.

 

The same thing is with entchanments they also get stronger while you lvl up.

 

Ooh, okay, so when the ability levels it doesn't even get stronger? It only gets stronger based on cLvl? That's a simple way of making it balanced, I like it.

 

EDIT: Irons, you said that when you switch bars the Ult also changes, right?

[Xenon]

you level a skill to morph. then morph skill.

In the videos we can see that the morphed skill get a progress bar as well.

how far can you level a morphed skill. not at all? 5 ranks...?

 

or if it only scale towards your character level - does it even matter??

[Francis]

you level a skill to morph. then morph skill.

In the videos we can see that the morphed skill get a progress bar as well.

how far can you level a morphed skill. not at all? 5 ranks...?

 

or if it only scale towards your character level - does it even matter??

 

Well, they recently announced that upon launch, you can only morph a skill once when that skill reaches level 4. I hope they add more morphs when the post-release content comes.

[Xenon]

yeah (and morphing an ability only once is fine by me, by my calculations we will be thin on skill points as it is long before we hit level 50. Morphing a skill cost one skill point...). but what happen after you morph it. are you done level up the skill by then? There is still a progress bar on the morphed skills in the leaked videos.........

[Francis]

Maybe the damage and all the stuff with skills don't go up with your character's level but with the skill's level. That would change quite a few things...

[Xenon]

Or maybe skill rank progression is just up to rank 5 where you can spend another skill point to morph the skill and then that skill is "done"...

 

and all cost, duration and damage etc scale directly towards your character level.

not your skill rank.

[irons]

Ooh, okay, so when the ability levels it doesn't even get stronger? It only gets stronger based on cLvl? That's a simple way of making it balanced, I like it.

 

EDIT: Irons, you said that when you switch bars the Ult also changes, right?

Yes the Ultimate also changes except you have only 1 slotted.

 

From what I have sse it's only till rank 5. I guess that you can lvl the skills further when they add another morph later on

[Xenon]

fair enough.

 

so the different magicka cost and damage increase i've seen on abilities at rank IV and morphed versions are tied to the higher character rank then rather than the higher skill rank. I need to go back and check what level the character had i think... to get a better and more accurate idea on how fast the various abilities scale.

 

that also explain why a rank 4 skill have the same damage and cost as the level 5 "morphed" version of the skill (but that the morphed skill increase one aspect of the ability... like adding a on next hit damage buff or increased range or whatnot).

[Musclemagic]

you level a skill to morph. then morph skill.

In the videos we can see that the morphed skill get a progress bar as well.

how far can you level a morphed skill. not at all? 5 ranks...?

 

or if it only scale towards your character level - does it even matter??

 

This was the question I had too. I get the feeling that at level 5 it's considered "done", like you said. Another option would be if we're only able to decide if we want to change the morph to the other option once every 5 ranks (at 5, then 10, then 15, we're able to switch the morph--and it takes longer each time to level, so you don't really want to do this--kind of makes speccing even more focused rather than being able to swap morphs too easily..even though it does cost a soul-shard already.)

 

This is something that doesn't bother me though, I just want to know the potential morphs already so I can start c-c-c-comboing! :"|||||||

[Xenon]

it cost a skill point to morph a skill.

you can only morph a skill once.

 

 

 

if my calculations are correct you will NOT have enough skill points to unlock all passive, ultimate, active and morphs. Not by a long shot. You have to think ahead carefully what abilities you want and what abilities you can live without. 

 

With additional skill lines from guilds, vampire etc it doesn't even look like you will have enough skill points to unlock everything after you go veteran and run the whole game again at 50+. Even twice, at 50++

[Francis]

it cost a skill point to morph a skill.

you can only morph a skill once.

 

 

 

if my calculations are correct you will NOT have enough skill points to unlock all passive, ultimate, active and morphs. Not by a long shot. You have to think ahead carefully what abilities you want and what abilities you can live without. 

 

With additional skill lines from guilds, vampire etc it doesn't even look like you will have enough skill points to unlock everything after you go veteran and run the whole game again at 50+. Even twice, at 50++

 

Well, I'm not going to sift through the beta leaks again, but I believe I saw that there was a counter for the soul shards. It read "6/303" or something like that. But I do believe it was around 300. If that's true, then we've got 49 points from leveling and (303/3) = 101 from soul shards. 150 in total.

[Xenon]

still not enough to unlock em all without going veteran

[Francis]

I think that number already covers the other territories a well. So, I think going veteran is irrelevant.

[Francis]

I've compiled a Helpful list.

• [*]Each class has 30 abilities (10 for each tree). There are 4 classes in the game, with a total of 120 points. [*]The weapons section has 60 abilities (10 per weapon type). [*]The armor section has 18 (6 per armor type). [*]Each race has 5 abilities (9 races, with a total of 45). [*]The World -> The Soul magic section has another 5. The fact that Soul Magic is a subsection of World undoubtably means that there will be other World subsections. "Undaunted" has already been identified. [*]The Mage Guild has 10. [*]The Fighters' Guild has 10. [*]PVP has 12. [*]Diseases and misc. guilds are unknown.
  

if n = number of unknown skills,

 

This adds up to (150+n) skills per character, multiplied by 2 if each skills morphs once.

 

To unlock everything, a person would then require 300+2(n) skill points. I believe that 150 skills points is fortunately more than enough to complete a build.

[Xenon]

Yeah. 150 skill points will cover more than enough. But by then we are talking about 50++ (Veteran x2; finding all shards in the whole world... all factions).

 

And I doubt you can morph passive abilities (IIRC passive skills don't have a progress bar). Unclear if Ultimates can be morphed. Some abilities are also FREE (Soul Trap from the World skills Soul Magic line, Ambidexterity from the Race skills Dark Elf line etc...)

 

Basically you only need 10 active skills that you morph and 1 or 2 ultimates.

There will be quite a lot of passives that will benefit your build, but a lot of passive skills require that you wield a particular weapon or wear a piece of armor or have abilities from a specific skill line on your hot bar in order to work.

 

This mean you will have enough skill points to build the "perfect" build even without going veteran.

 

But without veteran you would have.... what? ~80 skill points?

Race (where we assume that first passive is free), two weapon lines, one armor line, all three class lines (and one morph on each active skill but not on passive and ultimates) = 86 skill points.

 

That is going to be *very* tight....

nothing left for guild or disease lines, another armor or weapon line etc....

[Musclemagic]

There might only be 303 spawn points for soul shards, but they've been adamant about being able to unlock every ability so I think you'll be able to get them multiple times from the same spawn points.. In fact I'm pretty sure I heard that in an interview...That they'll be randomly spawn at points throughout the world and anyone can pick them up.

 

I did for sure hear that you can change your morph choice later on--you're never stuck with anything except the race and class choice you initially made.

[Musclemagic]

I get the feeling that armor sets will give very very important passives.

 

As soon as the endgame armor sets are released with the known set bonuses it will change our builds by a huge amount.

 

Say, there's a two piece..maybe like.. Boot and Glove, so it isn't something with super high armor values... from a medium armor set that gives you increased melee power, and passive movement speed. Combining this with a 5 piece Heavy set might be better than taking 7 pieces of heavy.

 

That's just one example, but I think it'll be very similar to the Diablo series in this regard--where item combos are really key to finalizing a good character.

 

 So, my question is, does anyone have a visual of any endgame sets yet? Of any armor type?

[irons]

I get the feeling that armor sets will give very very important passives.As soon as the endgame armor sets are released with the known set bonuses it will change our builds by a huge amount.Say, there's a two piece..maybe like.. Boot and Glove, so it isn't something with super high armor values... from a medium armor set that gives you increased melee power, and passive movement speed. Combining this with a 5 piece Heavy set might be better than taking 7 pieces of heavy.That's just one example, but I think it'll be very similar to the Diablo series in this regard--where item combos are really key to finalizing a good character. So, my question is, does anyone have a visual of any endgame sets yet? Of any armor type?

With the changes to medium armor I could see myself going from 7 heavy armor to 5 heavy 2 medium 4/3 and all the way to 2 heavy 5 medium.I assume that there are sets which give you a bonus when you wear 2 pieces and a bigger bonus when you wear 5+ pieces.I would choose a heavy armor set which grants you a dmg bonus and a medium armor set which grants you also a bonus to dmg.I would entchant my2 rings and 1 amulet with dmg increase.All Heavy armor pieces with HP reg and 5 medium armor pieces with dmg increase (if possible)For PvE (Tank) I would go with 7 pieces heavy armor.For PvP (Bruiser) I would use 5 pieces medium armor and 2 pieces heavy armor.

[Musclemagic]

With the changes to medium armor I could see myself going from 7 heavy armor to 5 heavy 2 medium 4/3 and all the way to 2 heavy 5 medium.I assume that there are sets which give you a bonus when you wear 2 pieces and a bigger bonus when you wear 5+ pieces.I would choose a heavy armor set which grants you a dmg bonus and a medium armor set which grants you also a bonus to dmg.I would entchant my2 rings and 1 amulet with dmg increase.All Heavy armor pieces with HP reg and 5 medium armor pieces with dmg increase (if possible)For PvE (Tank) I would go with 7 pieces heavy armor.For PvP (Bruiser) I would use 5 pieces medium armor and 2 pieces heavy armor.

 

Yeah, I feel like some of the 3 or 4-piece bonuses will be stronger for certain characters than say 4% damage reduction or +10% spell crit chance for certain builds (although it might be rare.) So, depending on the stats I might even go a 4/3 even though it would lose the 4% mitigate.

 

But, I don't think that the enchant will change based on the item you're enchanting (whether it's heavy or medium, you know?), so the enchants don't really matter for particular items per-say.

[irons]

But, I don't think that the enchant will change based on the item you're enchanting (whether it's heavy or medium, you know?), so the enchants don't really matter for particular items per-say.

Entchanments don't change the vary depending on armor slot not armor typ.They entchantments are important for my build.

[irons]

Another thingIf gloves are the only armor piece which can be entchanted with power increase. Do you think that I could tank with 5 pieces medium armor and 2 pieces hevay armor (chest & legs) where 6 armor pieces are entchanted with HP reg?