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Min/Max Combos (Very Early Theorycrafting)


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#61
irons

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I'm so torn on what class I want to make my main, and my friends all think I'm crazy for being that torn on it this early before the game, but I am. ;___; I need help deciding!

 

My main is going to be a Redguard (pirate!), but I want to go sneaky heals/support. Sneaky heals are my favorite heals. Anyway, I want neither Templar nor Dragon Knight for her, but I'm torn on whether I want to go Sorcerer or Nightblade with a mix of medium and light armors. Both classes would obviously carry a resto staff, but I don't really want my secondary weapon to be a destro staff, so I'm still looking at what interesting things the other weapons might offer (perhaps dagger + shield or something).

 

Anyway, what interests me in the sorcerer lines are repulse (dat knockback) and the lightning escape as well as lightning form for an added defensive measure against attacks. But... but... nightblade has all the other yummy stealth and invisibility and running away, as well as siphoning abilities for that added leeching which always helps for heals.

 

Whichever I don't use on my redguard I'll use for my nord; so if I go nightblade sneak-heals for redguard, my nord goes sneak-heals sorcerer. I'm just at a loss for which I think I'll enjoy playing more, or which will be most effective for my main. Or even which fits a Redguard better.

 

HALP. DECISIONS. I NEED GUIDANCE, O MASTER OF BUILD-SMITHING.

If you really wanna go with a sneaky healer than I would suggest going with a Nightblade.

 

The way healing works in ESO is a little bit different than in most other MMO's because most of your heals are AOE which means that you have to stand in the center of the fight. The nightblade is the only class which has access to invisibility which allows you to stay stealth even in the heat of combat.



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#62
Musclemagic

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I'm so torn on what class I want to make my main, and my friends all think I'm crazy for being that torn on it this early before the game, but I am. ;___; I need help deciding!

 

My main is going to be a Redguard (pirate!), but I want to go sneaky heals/support. Sneaky heals are my favorite heals. Anyway, I want neither Templar nor Dragon Knight for her, but I'm torn on whether I want to go Sorcerer or Nightblade with a mix of medium and light armors. Both classes would obviously carry a resto staff, but I don't really want my secondary weapon to be a destro staff, so I'm still looking at what interesting things the other weapons might offer (perhaps dagger + shield or something).

 

Anyway, what interests me in the sorcerer lines are repulse (dat knockback) and the lightning escape as well as lightning form for an added defensive measure against attacks. But... but... nightblade has all the other yummy stealth and invisibility and running away, as well as siphoning abilities for that added leeching which always helps for heals.

 

Whichever I don't use on my redguard I'll use for my nord; so if I go nightblade sneak-heals for redguard, my nord goes sneak-heals sorcerer. I'm just at a loss for which I think I'll enjoy playing more, or which will be most effective for my main. Or even which fits a Redguard better.

 

HALP. DECISIONS. I NEED GUIDANCE, O MASTER OF BUILD-SMITHING.

 

 

If you like the idea of slowly killing your opponent with damage over time, while healing yourself with passive healing, then be a NB. If you like the idea of being able to CC your opponent and have anti-cc, then go Sorc. In PVP invisibility won't be very viable because I guarantee most groups will have at least one or two people with a mage-light. Stealth as a resto won't benefit you much anyway, so if stealth is what drew you to NB then I'd recommend Sorc. They both have equal burst damage.. Mage has a bit more passive armor while NB has more passive heals.

 

The only really viable option as 2nd weapon for a resto staff user is the destro staff... bummer.. BUT, here's the deal, if you're a mage then a 1h/shield offers even more tankiness as well as even more CC that synergizes well with the mage.

 

So, if 1h/shield appeals to you, then mage. If not, then I'd recommend using a Bow and going as a NB. (Edit: For the sneak attack increase damage and help managing Stam..more than mage anyway for bow. XD)

 

But--- Trying both during the beta is going to be your best bet...although as a pirate RPer I'd go NB... Hmm :P

 

ps- To re-stealth in PVE (where it could happen--I wouldn't waste a bar spot on it for PVP when it'll be worthless a lot of the time instead of a usefull ability like your own mage-light! :P) combat you'd sacrifice your magicka regen, which would ruin you as a healer unless you have entropy up on many targets at once--which you'll want to do anyway.

 

pps- I think Daggerfall Covenant will be saturated with melee DPS, so this should be a sought after build.



#63
othergamers

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Hello, I am looking for the best DPS build for a dark elf who uses magic type skills

I have seen you're fire DPS build but it might not be viable enough.

I just need to hit the cap of the damage :P

But my switch in skills needs to make it so I am also good with a group like for instance in dungeons with more people and in PVP

 

Can you make something for me? :D



#64
irons

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In PVP invisibility won't be very viable because I guarantee most groups will have at least one or two people with a mage-light. .

It might not be that useful in PvE but in Pvp invisibility is one of the best possible skills you can have.The mage light only shows stealthed people with in range so you just have to use range attacks to negate the mage light.Inivisibily is one of the best survival skills because with it you can get away from all attacks, yes you take dmg from AoEs but no one can attack you directly. Even the toughest tank will go down when enough people target fire him but a NB can get away with stealth.

#65
irons

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Hello, I am looking for the best DPS build for a dark elf who uses magic type skillsI have seen you're fire DPS build but it might not be viable enough.I just need to hit the cap of the damage :PBut my switch in skills needs to make it so I am also good with a group like for instance in dungeons with more people and in PVP Can you make something for me? :D

The problem of the DK fire build is that you have be to close to shine. That means that it probably will be great in PvE especially in dungeons but in PvP it won't be that great. So you have to adjust it for PvP.

#66
Musclemagic

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Hello, I am looking for the best DPS build for a dark elf who uses magic type skills

I have seen you're fire DPS build but it might not be viable enough.

I just need to hit the cap of the damage :P

But my switch in skills needs to make it so I am also good with a group like for instance in dungeons with more people and in PVP

 

Can you make something for me? :D

 

Irons is right, the problem with that fire build is that you need to get close for it to be effective. This might not be a problem in most PVE situations (where you're expected to have an enemy on you anyway, since the tank's only meant to hold the aggro of one-two enemies) but in PVP you really want distance from your opponents as a caster. There are several abilities you can use on a DK to become very tanky though, so if you are using a Destro Staff for DPS and then you switch to a resto staff you can heal pretty well and tank quite a lot of damage.

 

If you like more utility then be a mage, if you like more heals then be a templar, if you like more subtlety then be a NB, if you like more direct damage/heals and active tanking with passive recovery then DK is good. It all depends on what you plan on doing with your character to determine what's the best min/maxed. DK will be best for max DPS, you won't be able to get best PVP build at the same time as best PVE build no matter how hard you try so I'd recommend just sticking to one or the other and then fiddling with the others.

 

I am being a templar for several reasons, one of them is because I will be very effective with both of my weapons--being able to completely change my roll without sacrificing (much) performance in one or the other. It's the only build that seems effective in pretty much any situation.

 

You said you just want to cap damage though, so I'd really be a DK firemage. Your group will love how fast things die when you're around, in PVP you'll still do massive damage and then be able to take quite a lot of hits as well when you bar swap.. But remember you will need to be close to the targets.

 

It might not be that useful in PvE but in Pvp invisibility is one of the best possible skills you can have.The mage light only shows stealthed people with in range so you just have to use range attacks to negate the mage light.Inivisibily is one of the best survival skills because with it you can get away from all attacks, yes you take dmg from AoEs but no one can attack you directly. Even the toughest tank will go down when enough people target fire him but a NB can get away with stealth.

 

Stealth might be good for entering combat more effectively and avoiding combat altogether. But, you won't be able to stay invisible long during combat and unless you Ult for like..12s or w/e it is..you won't really be able to get away during 2.5s of Invisibility with that re-stealth skill. That's like saying you could uppercut (2h) someone for a 3.5s stun and then run away to restealth? It's not going to go like that. Stealth will only act as a temporary shield against direct damage, a costly one at that for casters because it takes away magicka regen on top of the cost to cast. Yes, you can recast that invisibility a few times.. 5 seconds, 7.5s, 10s, it will add up and you'll be able to get away but Nightblades aren't really "bursty" so the opponent will probably heal during that time and you'll be stuck with no magicka and no kill. Spamming Bolt Escape would be faster and maybe more magicka efficient even to get away than stealth, if we run about 15 meters per 2.5 seconds (which seems about right, just a tad slow) but it'll be instant and depending on the mechanics of the Bolt then it could be even more awesome for several reasons..plus it stuns. Several other examples as well.

 

And, depending on the effective range on Mage-Light, Stealth might not even be good for avoiding combat in general. I know I'll be rocking the mage-light no matter what, since it increases spell power too.

 

I just think that there are a lot better abilities than stealth for the same purposes, but they all have more in combat utility than stealth does.

 

Immediate Edit:  I think that stealth/invisibility is good for Melee characters to close distances on Casters. If we were talking about melee-ranged characters then I actually love the idea of stealth for OFFENSE, but not so much for defense still. Yes, it's really good but I think there are better defensive abilities even for melee as well as better escape abilities for everyone.



#67
othergamers

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Irons is right, the problem with that fire build is that you need to get close for it to be effective. This might not be a problem in most PVE situations (where you're expected to have an enemy on you anyway, since the tank's only meant to hold the aggro of one-two enemies) but in PVP you really want distance from your opponents as a caster. There are several abilities you can use on a DK to become very tanky though, so if you are using a Destro Staff for DPS and then you switch to a resto staff you can heal pretty well and tank quite a lot of damage.

 

If you like more utility then be a mage, if you like more heals then be a templar, if you like more subtlety then be a NB, if you like more direct damage/heals and active tanking with passive recovery then DK is good. It all depends on what you plan on doing with your character to determine what's the best min/maxed. DK will be best for max DPS, you won't be able to get best PVP build at the same time as best PVE build no matter how hard you try so I'd recommend just sticking to one or the other and then fiddling with the others.

 

I am being a templar for several reasons, one of them is because I will be very effective with both of my weapons--being able to completely change my roll without sacrificing (much) performance in one or the other. It's the only build that seems effective in pretty much any situation.

 

You said you just want to cap damage though, so I'd really be a DK firemage. Your group will love how fast things die when you're around, in PVP you'll still do massive damage and then be able to take quite a lot of hits as well when you bar swap.. But remember you will need to be close to the targets.

 

 

Stealth might be good for entering combat more effectively and avoiding combat altogether. But, you won't be able to stay invisible long during combat and unless you Ult for like..12s or w/e it is..you won't really be able to get away during 2.5s of Invisibility with that re-stealth skill. That's like saying you could uppercut (2h) someone for a 3.5s stun and then run away to restealth? It's not going to go like that. Stealth will only act as a temporary shield against direct damage, a costly one at that for casters because it takes away magicka regen on top of the cost to cast. Yes, you can recast that invisibility a few times.. 5 seconds, 7.5s, 10s, it will add up and you'll be able to get away but Nightblades aren't really "bursty" so the opponent will probably heal during that time and you'll be stuck with no magicka and no kill. Spamming Bolt Escape would be faster and maybe more magicka efficient even to get away than stealth, if we run about 15 meters per 2.5 seconds (which seems about right, just a tad slow) but it'll be instant and depending on the mechanics of the Bolt then it could be even more awesome for several reasons..plus it stuns. Several other examples as well.

 

And, depending on the effective range on Mage-Light, Stealth might not even be good for avoiding combat in general. I know I'll be rocking the mage-light no matter what, since it increases spell power too.

 

I just think that there are a lot better abilities than stealth for the same purposes, but they all have more in combat utility than stealth does.

 

Immediate Edit:  I think that stealth/invisibility is good for Melee characters to close distances on Casters. If we were talking about melee-ranged characters then I actually love the idea of stealth for OFFENSE, but not so much for defense still. Yes, it's really good but I think there are better defensive abilities even for melee as well as better escape abilities for everyone.

Do you know if the passives of you're desto staff stacks with you're DK ability's?Can you confirm?



#68
Musclemagic

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Do you know if the passives of you're desto staff stacks with you're DK ability's?
Can you confirm?

 

Can't confirm, but the gear bonuses and the +7% from being a Dunmer will all stack for sure - so I don't see why it wouldn't. 99% positive it will. :)



#69
irons

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 Stealth might be good for entering combat more effectively and avoiding combat altogether. But, you won't be able to stay invisible long during combat and unless you Ult for like..12s or w/e it is..you won't really be able to get away during 2.5s of Invisibility with that re-stealth skill. That's like saying you could uppercut (2h) someone for a 3.5s stun and then run away to restealth? It's not going to go like that. Stealth will only act as a temporary shield against direct damage, a costly one at that for casters because it takes away magicka regen on top of the cost to cast. Yes, you can recast that invisibility a few times.. 5 seconds, 7.5s, 10s, it will add up and you'll be able to get away but Nightblades aren't really "bursty" so the opponent will probably heal during that time and you'll be stuck with no magicka and no kill. Spamming Bolt Escape would be faster and maybe more magicka efficient even to get away than stealth, if we run about 15 meters per 2.5 seconds (which seems about right, just a tad slow) but it'll be instant and depending on the mechanics of the Bolt then it could be even more awesome for several reasons..plus it stuns. Several other examples as well. And, depending on the effective range on Mage-Light, Stealth might not even be good for avoiding combat in general. I know I'll be rocking the mage-light no matter what, since it increases spell power too. I just think that there are a lot better abilities than stealth for the same purposes, but they all have more in combat utility than stealth does. Immediate Edit:  I think that stealth/invisibility is good for Melee characters to close distances on Casters. If we were talking about melee-ranged characters then I actually love the idea of stealth for OFFENSE, but not so much for defense still. Yes, it's really good but I think there are better defensive abilities even for melee as well as better escape abilities for everyone.

You underestimate invisibility, yes it's nice to open combat but it really shines as a escape skill. A stun isn't half as effective as invisibility lets say you are in a combat with 5 others you maybe stun 1 of them he stays in stun or he decides to use stamina to break your stun however the other 4 will keep attacking you with inivisibilty you got 2.5s where they can't attack you directly that also means that they are unable to use CCs on you. 2.5s doesn't sound much but it could be enough to use a health potion or to get far enough way to go stealth.

#70
othergamers

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Can't confirm, but the gear bonuses and the +7% from being a Dunmer will all stack for sure - so I don't see why it wouldn't. 99% positive it will. :)

If you know could you PM me or reapply to this post? :D



#71
Musclemagic

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If you know could you PM me or reapply to this post? :D

 

Won't know until I get my grubbies on a beta account of my own, I've only played on a friends.



#72
Musclemagic

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You underestimate invisibility, yes it's nice to open combat but it really shines as a escape skill. A stun isn't half as effective as invisibility lets say you are in a combat with 5 others you maybe stun 1 of them he stays in stun or he decides to use stamina to break your stun however the other 4 will keep attacking you with inivisibilty you got 2.5s where they can't attack you directly that also means that they are unable to use CCs on you. 2.5s doesn't sound much but it could be enough to use a health potion or to get far enough way to go stealth.

 

If you like the idea of not being seen for 2.5 seconds more than you like the idea of any other ability (you only get to choose from 5 per bar + ult) then you can use it. You won't find it on my bars though, there are many better options for specific builds. Yes, going invisible is nice in the sense that it's universal..but you should have counters to most things already so that you can (and should) be using something else that's more specific, and therefore stronger for what you need than stealth.

 

We'll have to wait and see how it unfolds in endgame though, there might be an awesome way to ninja a siege weapon if you have invisibility and you can't any other way (or something similar like that). We'll see mate! But most of the time there will be better options, for sure.



#73
Falkner

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Is invisibility and sneaking the same thing? I know that magelight is supposed to reveal you if you're sneaking/stealthing, but I was under the impression that invisibility was a totally different animal, one that the nightblade abilities touch on. 

 

They specifically mention sneaking characters when referring to magelight's ability. But I might just be nitpicking.

 

Anyway, thanks for the input! I think I'm going to go with Nightblade and check out some of the siphoning abilities, see if I can't make myself a loose set of skills to play with. 

 

The sneaky-heals I had in mind wasn't so much spamming heals while stealthed/invisible, but being viable enough in stealth (having a bit of medium armor for the bonuses) to sneak past enemy lines with a group of stealthies and then act as a support and heals for them. I'll see if I can do anything viable with a bow for that, but if worst comes to worst, I suppose I could use a destro staff. I just hate the aesthetics of staves- it's bad enough using one for resto!

 

My other nightblade is going to be tank/DPS, that should be fun too. :D



#74
irons

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Is invisibility and sneaking the same thing? I know that magelight is supposed to reveal you if you're sneaking/stealthing, but I was under the impression that invisibility was a totally different animal, one that the nightblade abilities touch on.

Invisbility and sneaking(stealth) are 2 different things, every player has access to sneaking but only Nightblades have access to invisibility.Inivibility has the advantage that you can't be detected by anyone. I don't know if it will work with magelight but I guess not because inivisibilty is a high cost ability.

#75
irons

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If you like the idea of not being seen for 2.5 seconds more than you like the idea of any other ability (you only get to choose from 5 per bar + ult) then you can use it. You won't find it on my bars though, there are many better options for specific builds. Yes, going invisible is nice in the sense that it's universal..but you should have counters to most things already so that you can (and should) be using something else that's more specific, and therefore stronger for what you need than stealth. We'll have to wait and see how it unfolds in endgame though, there might be an awesome way to ninja a siege weapon if you have invisibility and you can't any other way (or something similar like that). We'll see mate! But most of the time there will be better options, for sure.

From my past expierence invisibility was allways a extremly strong ability especially in PvP. The beauty of this skill is that it can be used in so many different ways and that it can't really be counteredYou say that you should use more specific abilities instead of invisibility, but I haven't seen anything which comes even close to invisibility.If you have the ability in mind which reflects projectiles than you should keep in mind that most magic attacks doesn't count as projectiles that AoE doesn't count and also not melee attacks. If I would play a Nightblade I would use invisibilty for sure, but that's just me.




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