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#256
Musclemagic

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Yeah AoE is better in big battles but the NB excels as a Single Target Dps and that's what this build is about.Like you said I'm not to much into NB because I'm totally fixed on DK so that build surley has potential for improvement.There is no overlap with that build that build is designed so that you can choose how you wanna engage your opponent either melee or range depending on which troubles them more. So against a melee fighter or Tank you would use your bow against healers or caster you go in close.I agree that having to many NB like that in your group would suck but having a few of those to quickly pick of enemy players is nice.

 

I'd at least throw Volley in there though. :P

 

Posting my thoughts about a group pvp templar build here, to see how other people think about it. The exact skills i'd use in the build are not set at the moment.

I'm thinking about exploting the hell out of spear shards (ae damage + 15% damage buff for me and a teammate) and solar flare (ae damage + 40% damage for the next attack on every target hit). Then combine those buffs with strong ae attacks, used by you or the one that picked up your spear shard. Repeated use should do insane ae damage.

Besides the obvious problem of burning a ton of mp on repeated use, and solar flare having a cast time, is there anything i'm missing that would prevent this?

 

The thing is that there's not any stronger (as far as first-number goes) AOE than Solar Flare already, so you might want to just spam it. Spear Shards requires input from a friend for your buff, I'd personally use Entropy in between each one for the +15% damage on the Mage Guild's passive (after casting a mage guild ability you get +15% damage to next ability). Entropy also helps with the MP burn you mentioned.

 

If there was a stronger AOE attack then it'd be a good idea, but it's only really worth doing that in very highly coordinated situations where you can do it before they use an Ultimate. This would apply well to single targets as well, given the right coordination. For group fights you're almost always better off just spamming Solar Flare because if it's not hitting itself then it'll be getting hit almost as soon as it's used anyway. :P



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#257
Thal

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The thing is that there's not any stronger (as far as first-number goes) AOE than Solar Flare already, so you might want to just spam it. Spear Shards requires input from a friend for your buff, I'd personally use Entropy in between each one for the +15% damage on the Mage Guild's passive (after casting a mage guild ability you get +15% damage to next ability). Entropy also helps with the MP burn you mentioned.

Hmmm, hadn't thought of that particular combination until you mentioned it, but I really like that idea and it could work really well.

I also wanted to throw something random out here that effects everyone's build regardless of class, and that is the way regeneration values are calculated by the game in regard to stamina/magicka/health regen:

My question is: at what point in a calculation of regen do % increases get factored in? The timing of this could have significant outcomes on calculations of regen and whether or not you have enough regen to cater for particular move combinations. I think it is best illustrated by the following example:

E.g. Redguard Templar, with Restoring Aura.

Equipment: Medium Armour full set;
3 pieces of his armour have a +10 stamina regen enchantment

Total stamina: 1600

Method 1

Calculation of stamina regen:

1600 x 3/100 = 48 stamina/second base rate

If you then apply the + 28% regen for 7 pieces of medium armour and +15% for Restoring Order you then get:

48 + 48 x 0.43 = 68.64 stamina/second

Then apply other raw bonuses: redguard passive and 3 enchantments of stamina regen;

64.64 + 7 + (10 x 3) = 105.64 stamina/second

Therefore by this calculation your Total Stamina Regeneration would be 105.64 stamina/second

 

Method 2

 

Calculation of stamina regen:

 

1600 x 3/100 = 48 stamina/second base rate

Now adding gear enchantments and racial passive raw increases first:

48 + 7 + (10 x 3) = 85 stamina/second

Then applying % increases from armour passives (28%) and active abilities (15%):

 

85 + 85 x 0.43 = 121.55 stamina/second

Therefore by this calculation your Total Stamina Regeneration would be 121.55 stamina/second

 

Conclusion

 

As you can see in this example the regeneration rate difference is equivalent to: about 16 stamina/second

 

So depending on what order % increases and raw increases are applied, there can be phenomenal changes to your stamina/magicka/health regeneration rates and what you calculate your rate to be in order to work out how often you can use the Active skills you choose to slot. While 16 in this example doesn't seem like a terribly huge difference - it works out to really be quite large and can make the difference between picking one Active skill over another due to cost-effective calculations.

So the question is: do we know in which order it is calculated? What has everyone been assuming the calculation order to be? And if you get a chance to jump in beta next time - see if you can work out the order if we don't already know.

*Note: the build I gave was merely an example and I do not intend to actually use a medium armour templar.
** Additional Note: I have no idea what order the calculation is made so I have been factoring the potential for it to go either way when looking at my potential builds.

And one last question - is there any limitations like there is in Skyrim when it comes to using the same enchantment on every piece of armour. E,g. Could you have a stamina regen enchantment on every piece of your Heavy Armour?

 



#258
Musclemagic

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Hmmm, hadn't thought of that particular combination until you mentioned it, but I really like that idea and it could work really well.

I also wanted to throw something random out here that effects everyone's build regardless of class, and that is the way regeneration values are calculated by the game in regard to stamina/magicka/health regen:

My question is: at what point in a calculation of regen do % increases get factored in? The timing of this could have significant outcomes on calculations of regen and whether or not you have enough regen to cater for particular move combinations. I think it is best illustrated by the following example:

E.g. Redguard Templar, with Restoring Aura.

Equipment: Medium Armour full set;
3 pieces of his armour have a +10 stamina regen enchantment

Total stamina: 1600

Method 1

Calculation of stamina regen:

1600 x 3/100 = 48 stamina/second base rate

If you then apply the + 28% regen for 7 pieces of medium armour and +15% for Restoring Order you then get:

48 + 48 x 0.43 = 68.64 stamina/second

Then apply other raw bonuses: redguard passive and 3 enchantments of stamina regen;

64.64 + 7 + (10 x 3) = 105.64 stamina/second

Therefore by this calculation your Total Stamina Regeneration would be 105.64 stamina/second

 

Method 2

 

Calculation of stamina regen:

 

1600 x 3/100 = 48 stamina/second base rate

Now adding gear enchantments and racial passive raw increases first:

48 + 7 + (10 x 3) = 85 stamina/second

Then applying % increases from armour passives (28%) and active abilities (15%):

 

85 + 85 x 0.43 = 121.55 stamina/second

Therefore by this calculation your Total Stamina Regeneration would be 121.55 stamina/second

 

Conclusion

 

As you can see in this example the regeneration rate difference is equivalent to: about 16 stamina/second

 

So depending on what order % increases and raw increases are applied, there can be phenomenal changes to your stamina/magicka/health regeneration rates and what you calculate your rate to be in order to work out how often you can use the Active skills you choose to slot. While 16 in this example doesn't seem like a terribly huge difference - it works out to really be quite large and can make the difference between picking one Active skill over another due to cost-effective calculations.

So the question is: do we know in which order it is calculated? What has everyone been assuming the calculation order to be? And if you get a chance to jump in beta next time - see if you can work out the order if we don't already know.

*Note: the build I gave was merely an example and I do not intend to actually use a medium armour templar.
** Additional Note: I have no idea what order the calculation is made so I have been factoring the potential for it to go either way when looking at my potential builds.

And one last question - is there any limitations like there is in Skyrim when it comes to using the same enchantment on every piece of armour. E,g. Could you have a stamina regen enchantment on every piece of your Heavy Armour?

 

 

Great post. I believe it will be base + % + constant (lower result.) The reason I think so is because the 2nd one, 7.6% regen per second is too much... A templar spamming solar flare for ~300 mp ever 2 seconds would be 122 + 122 + 64 (@1600 x .04).. for a total of 308 mp/2 seconds. Infinite spamming in this case?

 

It's too hard to say at this point, but either way I'm leaning back towards a 100% Magicka Build... Unlimited casting of higher spell cost abilities (like The Konk was saying) is amazeballs...

 

Perhaps Templar Destro/Resto in Light as High Elf = Sexcommander.   Nightblade + 2H + Restoring Aura from nearby Templar + Medium Armor = Unlimited ST on pretty much anything if you get kills often enough..

 

I really wonder how long fights will last though, definitely as a DK tank the health regen will be powerful in all but the biggest disadvantage fights..unkillable in 1v1..

 

 

BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARDS! :)



#259
irons

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Great post. I believe it will be base + % + constant (lower result.) The reason I think so is because the 2nd one, 7.6% regen per second is too much... A templar spamming solar flare for ~300 mp ever 2 seconds would be 122 + 122 + 64 (@1600 x .04).. for a total of 308 mp/2 seconds. Infinite spamming in this case? It's too hard to say at this point, but either way I'm leaning back towards a 100% Magicka Build... Unlimited casting of higher spell cost abilities (like The Konk was saying) is amazeballs... Perhaps Templar Destro/Resto in Light as High Elf = Sexcommander.   Nightblade + 2H + Restoring Aura from nearby Templar + Medium Armor = Unlimited ST on pretty much anything if you get kills often enough.. I really wonder how long fights will last though, definitely as a DK tank the health regen will be powerful in all but the biggest disadvantage fights..unkillable in 1v1.. BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARDS! :)

The strength of DK's doesn't come from there passive HP reg it's because they have the best defensive skills + the best selfheals and still are able to deal good dmg.I allready was thinking about it yesterday, we have come to a point where we should talk about stat distribution and gear.The problem is that we have very little information about it.

#260
Thal

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The strength of DK's doesn't come from there passive HP reg it's because they have the best defensive skills + the best selfheals and still are able to deal good dmg.I allready was thinking about it yesterday, we have come to a point where we should talk about stat distribution and gear.The problem is that we have very little information about it.

Overall, I've gathered from people's posts on this thread that:1. There is a maximum of two stats and one enchantment on pieces of armour and perhaps even the accessory pieces.

2. stamina/health/magicka regen are available as enchantments and are a flat +10 at lvl 50

3. There is the usual 49 level points into your three main stats with a cap at no more than 30 points into one stat4. With level points and gear with a main stat, you can achieve somewhere between 1800 - 2200 of a main stat at least (possibly more with better gear when better gear is available than "superior" quality)

5. Without spending any points or having any stat toward a main stat on gear - you still have at least 1000 of a main stat 

So with this information, if you ignored health, power, crit and enchantments that are not stat-based (e.g. reduced dodge roll cost) and focused your level points and two gear stats on magicka and stamina with enchantments that were either magicka or stamina regeneration - you would then have a build that may not hit as hard or have as much health but would have both high total magicka and stamina and significant regen of both stats. With the numbers I've calculated, assuming this is all correct of course, this equates to:1. Characters that can spam low cost magicka skills without losing total stamina (especially cast time skills once you calculate regen during the casting and MOST especially when discussing Templars who have by far the greatest potential for stat regeneration)

2. Stamina regen on a high magicka character that is high enough to sustain the  use of "immovable" every 8 seconds and still have high total stamina with excess stamina regen to cover normal moves such as blocking and dodging (though this will depend on how often you intend to block/dodge and how expensive it is to do so which is not confirmed)3. You can have high magicka and stamina with high regen of both while NOT USING MEDIUM OR LIGHT armour passives. These numbers are based off purely using heavy armour and therefore no armour passive benefits to regeneration of stamina/magicka. Using the armour passives would give even higher regen (but perhaps even unnecessarily high).The sacrifice for such stat allocation and enchantment choices comes down to 2 major criteria that I can see:1. Low health. Only having 1000 health or a little higher.

2. Less damage output due to no stats/enchantments toward raw Power or Critical ratingHowever, the counter to point 1 is that while having low health - you do have heavy armour mitigation, defensive skills and if you have a self heal or a healer in group you do not have any worries about a lower health total. A good example is that a DK with Immovable and Spiked Armour constantly on plus heavy armour mitigation is not too worried about having lower health than other characters.The only counter to the second point is that:

1. Maintaining defensive skills and heals means you're in the fight for longer and therefore do more total damage over time

2. More importantly, you can use your offensive skills more often (perhaps even spam depending on the skill) and maintain this throughout a fight equating to more damage anywayRandom aside: DK's have best self heals? I am not very impressed by the cost of Dragon Blood (80m at lvl 1 and likely 560m at lvl 50) and the fact that it is not a flat 25% of your health but of your missing health which means if you had half health when you used it and were at about 500-700 health - then the heal you'd get would be 0.25 x 500-700 which would only be between 125 - 175. Unless I've misunderstood its description...And Inhale seems unreliable as it depends on huge numbers surrounding you. In a 1 vs 1 or smaller group fight - you may not get much out of the heal especially since it only has a 5m radius, I would think? They do have the best defensive skills though.P.S. I have not given any calculations/numbers in this lengthy post but happy to provide examples of build numbers as proof if anyone wishes to see. It's stuff I've done on paper and not typed up as of yet. And calculations are done without factoring any stats or enchantments one could gain from accessories or weapons. Just based off 7 pieces of armour that have 2 stats and one enchantment each.



#261
irons

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Random aside: DK's have best self heals? I am not very impressed by the cost of Dragon Blood (80m at lvl 1 and likely 560m at lvl 50) and the fact that it is not a flat 25% of your health but of your missing health which means if you had half health when you used it and were at about 500-700 health - then the heal you'd get would be 0.25 x 500-700 which would only be between 125 - 175. Unless I've misunderstood its description...And Inhale seems unreliable as it depends on huge numbers surrounding you. In a 1 vs 1 or smaller group fight - you may not get much out of the heal especially since it only has a 5m radius, I would think? They do have the best defensive skills though.

It seems I really have over read that part with missing health all the time :-)

 

 

We probably should open a new Thread when we start to discuss stats.



#262
Thal

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It seems I really have over read that part with missing health all the time :-)

 

 

We probably should open a new Thread when we start to discuss stats.

Yeah, I agree that we probably need a new thread for stat-based stuff. It may overlap with certain aspects of "build" discussions but there are many points about stats and gear that aren't "best build" related.I saw your new thread on it and I think it was a particularly good idea because at least there we've got the known aspects of stats/equipment immediately in your intro which will save a lot of questions on what we do and don't know about gear/stats by everyone.And yeah the "missing health" bit ruined the skill for me too when I realised it was not a flat 25% of total health. :P



#263
irons

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Yeah, I agree that we probably need a new thread for stat-based stuff. It may overlap with certain aspects of "build" discussions but there are many points about stats and gear that aren't "best build" related.I saw your new thread on it and I think it was a particularly good idea because at least there we've got the known aspects of stats/equipment immediately in your intro which will save a lot of questions on what we do and don't know about gear/stats by everyone.And yeah the "missing health" bit ruined the skill for me too when I realised it was not a flat 25% of total health. :P

I'm kind of bussy today but I will try to put everything we know in the intro.

 

I hope they just chance it so that it will be a flat 25%.

 

To you know what immoveable or obsidian shield cost at lvl 50?



#264
Thal

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I'm kind of bussy today but I will try to put everything we know in the intro.

 

I hope they just chance it so that it will be a flat 25%.

 

To you know what immoveable or obsidian shield cost at lvl 50?

Yeah I hope they change it as well.Most skills, with very few exceptions however, cost exactly 7 times more stamina/magicka at lvl 50 than what they cost at lvl 1.E.g. Rune Prison costs 48m at lvl 1 and costs 336 at lvl 50 which is exactly 7 times more.There are a couple notable examples which don't follow that rule, such as Encase which costs 50m at lvl 1 but scales up to 560m at lvl 50, but most skills follow the x7 rule regardless of whether they cost magicka or stamina.Therefore (at lvl 50):Immovable will probably cost 420 stamina to use (or I like to look at it as costing 52.5 stamina/second).Obsidian Shield will most likely cost 280 magicka to cast. 



#265
Rally

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Hehe, i had that calcutation myself :)But i have some problem with the dmgscaling. The rationumbers were quite different from some skills. But overall i think it was 17.7x the amount of the lvl1 value. But it went as high as 24 i think.Another scaling topic:Does kindling multiply all fire dots like searing strike by 3, or is burning a different effect then continuous fire dmg?



#266
irons

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Hehe, i had that calcutation myself :)But i have some problem with the dmgscaling. The rationumbers were quite different from some skills. But overall i think it was 17.7x the amount of the lvl1 value. But it went as high as 24 i think.Another scaling topic:Does kindling multiply all fire dots like searing strike by 3, or is burning a different effect then continuous fire dmg?

My guess is that all fire ablities have a chance to inflict bruning and that this burning deals 3% more dmg than normally.



#267
Musclemagic

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The strength of DK's doesn't come from there passive HP reg it's because they have the best defensive skills + the best selfheals and still are able to deal good dmg.I allready was thinking about it yesterday, we have come to a point where we should talk about stat distribution and gear.The problem is that we have very little information about it.

 

Yeah, it's because they'll have such high effective health points (due to mitigation) that the regen will seem like a lot in comparison.

 

 

Overall, I've gathered from people's posts on this thread that:1. There is a maximum of two stats and one enchantment on pieces of armour and perhaps even the accessory pieces.

2. stamina/health/magicka regen are available as enchantments and are a flat +10 at lvl 50

3. There is the usual 49 level points into your three main stats with a cap at no more than 30 points into one stat4. With level points and gear with a main stat, you can achieve somewhere between 1800 - 2200 of a main stat at least (possibly more with better gear when better gear is available than "superior" quality)

5. Without spending any points or having any stat toward a main stat on gear - you still have at least 1000 of a main stat 

So with this information, if you ignored health, power, crit and enchantments that are not stat-based (e.g. reduced dodge roll cost) and focused your level points and two gear stats on magicka and stamina with enchantments that were either magicka or stamina regeneration - you would then have a build that may not hit as hard or have as much health but would have both high total magicka and stamina and significant regen of both stats. With the numbers I've calculated, assuming this is all correct of course, this equates to:1. Characters that can spam low cost magicka skills without losing total stamina (especially cast time skills once you calculate regen during the casting and MOST especially when discussing Templars who have by far the greatest potential for stat regeneration)

2. Stamina regen on a high magicka character that is high enough to sustain the  use of "immovable" every 8 seconds and still have high total stamina with excess stamina regen to cover normal moves such as blocking and dodging (though this will depend on how often you intend to block/dodge and how expensive it is to do so which is not confirmed)3. You can have high magicka and stamina with high regen of both while NOT USING MEDIUM OR LIGHT armour passives. These numbers are based off purely using heavy armour and therefore no armour passive benefits to regeneration of stamina/magicka. Using the armour passives would give even higher regen (but perhaps even unnecessarily high).The sacrifice for such stat allocation and enchantment choices comes down to 2 major criteria that I can see:1. Low health. Only having 1000 health or a little higher.

2. Less damage output due to no stats/enchantments toward raw Power or Critical ratingHowever, the counter to point 1 is that while having low health - you do have heavy armour mitigation, defensive skills and if you have a self heal or a healer in group you do not have any worries about a lower health total. A good example is that a DK with Immovable and Spiked Armour constantly on plus heavy armour mitigation is not too worried about having lower health than other characters.The only counter to the second point is that:

1. Maintaining defensive skills and heals means you're in the fight for longer and therefore do more total damage over time

2. More importantly, you can use your offensive skills more often (perhaps even spam depending on the skill) and maintain this throughout a fight equating to more damage anywayRandom aside: DK's have best self heals? I am not very impressed by the cost of Dragon Blood (80m at lvl 1 and likely 560m at lvl 50) and the fact that it is not a flat 25% of your health but of your missing health which means if you had half health when you used it and were at about 500-700 health - then the heal you'd get would be 0.25 x 500-700 which would only be between 125 - 175. Unless I've misunderstood its description...And Inhale seems unreliable as it depends on huge numbers surrounding you. In a 1 vs 1 or smaller group fight - you may not get much out of the heal especially since it only has a 5m radius, I would think? They do have the best defensive skills though.P.S. I have not given any calculations/numbers in this lengthy post but happy to provide examples of build numbers as proof if anyone wishes to see. It's stuff I've done on paper and not typed up as of yet. And calculations are done without factoring any stats or enchantments one could gain from accessories or weapons. Just based off 7 pieces of armour that have 2 stats and one enchantment each.

 

It's too hard to tell right now, because we don't know the #'s for armor, the #'s for resistances, or how long fights will last on average (how much regen comes into play.)

 

Once we know those things, we'll be able to figure out how stat distribution comparing light or medium armor (about 20% less required stats in either ST or MP, is my guess) compared to heavy armor...so we'd be able to put 20% more stats into health..but how does that compare for overall Effective HP when you factor in armor...and that you'll require more magicka resistance on your heavy armor to make up for not having the light armor...

 

It all boils down to getting the maximum effective HP without sacrificing MP/ST, so depending on which one allows you to get that EFFECTIVE HP up the most, is what the best armor will be.. Definitely either Light or Heavy (my guess), since Medium has lower armor and zero resistance passives either...

 

Heavy will be obviously better for mitigation, but if you can allocate enough stats into HP from going in a different armor type then it could make up more than the difference.



#268
Rally

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Has anyone thought about the PvP passiv Reach?If it also works on radius abilities, then there would be some nice combinations.

Encase, Warhorn, Rapid Maneuver, Regeneration + maybe some 12m AoE skills with + radius morphs like Repulse

If u increase the radius from 20->25m, u get 56% more area covert.15->20m 78%

And more area=more targets effected=hopefully more ultimate



#269
Musclemagic

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Has anyone thought about the PvP passiv Reach?If it also works on radius abilities, then there would be some nice combinations.

Encase, Warhorn, Rapid Maneuver, Regeneration + maybe some 12m AoE skills with + radius morphs like Repulse

If u increase the radius from 20->25m, u get 56% more area covert.15->20m 78%

And more area=more targets effected=hopefully more ultimate

 

Yeah, definitely worth getting all the PVP passives. They're amazingcakes. :)



#270
irons

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Yeah, definitely worth getting all the PVP passives. They're amazingcakes. :)

Yeah the PvP passives are definitely strong.






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