Min/Max Combos (Very Early Theorycrafting)

[Musclemagic]

I personally start creating builds by picking a pole of actives I like. Than I think about for what purpose the build is. The passives simply help me to decide what skills make it into the build.I would never pick actives just because of the passives most if them are simply not strong enough to make up for a bad ability.

 

Interesting, I will be doing it opposite. Clear goals, so I don't waste points in things that won't apply. I'm going to level up in PVE using a  very slight variation of my PVP build. Actives help me decide passives, while passives help you decide actives.. interesting! XD

 

Definitely going into class skills first is a good idea, because if you're just using an armor and a weapon it'll get XP anyway. Good call.

[Soaks]

Soaks, I believe (like in Skyrim) you will have a level for each skill line that is independent of your actual character level. So you could be lvl 50 but only have your Draconic Skill line at level 23. So using abilities from a skill line gives you experience toward lvling that skill line up and I believe that all actives and passives in every skill line have different "levels" required in that skill line for you to be able to purchase them using your skill points. IE.g. Inhale may be lvl 36 in Draconic Skill line to purchase it using a skill point (not sure what lvl it actually is though). Hence the racial passives that give extra experience percentages toward certain skill lines, for example Redguards get +15% experience on top of normal experience for using skills in the "Weapon and Shield" skill line.

ok. tthanks that does clear it up for me.

[irons]

Interesting, I will be doing it opposite. Clear goals, so I don't waste points in things that won't apply. I'm going to level up in PVE using a  very slight variation of my PVP build. Actives help me decide passives, while passives help you decide actives.. interesting! XD Definitely going into class skills first is a good idea, because if you're just using an armor and a weapon it'll get XP anyway. Good call.

I guess everyone has his one way how he creates his builds.Currently I plan on using around 20 skills depending the situation.If you play a DPS you can use 1 build for all situations but as a tank I will have to change my build more often.1 boss could require you to use more defensive skills and for another one you need more AoE CC's

[Morathi III]

High elf/ nightblade shadow/ two weapon fighting with dagger has main/ medium armorThis fit appear pretty cool

[DocZero00]

I dont know exactly what active skills I will be picking (will know more once I get into the final weeks before the game is release providing I am in beta).

 

What I do know is what quest lines I will set prior on:

 

1) class

2) race

3) mage guild

4) fighter guild (monster hunter)

5) crafting

6) pve

7) pvp

 

once the expansions for dark brotherhood's and thief's guild come online;

I will work on those to bring them into slots 3 and 4 on my daily to do list.

 

of course this is when I am playing solo, I will help out will my guild alot once I get past level 12

[Musclemagic]

High elf/ nightblade shadow/ two weapon fighting with dagger has main/ medium armorThis fit appear pretty cool

 

You might want a slower weapon as main with a fast dagger as off-hand. Dagger in offhand gives you +5% crit chance, meaning the slower (bigger) hits with mainhand will be bigger % damage since it's mainhand.

 

Yeah, they will add up to be the same..and it depends on your build, but in most situations slower weapons outdamage faster. And crit in offhand..idk, it all depends on the rest of your build, but crit builds will probably do really well with dual wield.

[Rally]

You might want a slower weapon as main with a fast dagger as off-hand. Dagger in offhand gives you +5% crit chance, meaning the slower (bigger) hits with mainhand will be bigger % damage since it's mainhand.

 

Yeah, they will add up to be the same..and it depends on your build, but in most situations slower weapons outdamage faster. And crit in offhand..idk, it all depends on the rest of your build, but crit builds will probably do really well with dual wield.

That depends on weaponpocs and thier power. If there was a stun/Silenceproc at 5% rate i would rather play d/d than d/s.

[Musclemagic]

That depends on weaponpocs and thier power. If there was a stun/Silenceproc at 5% rate i would rather play d/d than d/s.

 

If it's PPM then it'll be better to have slow because you can almost control when to hit to get a proc. But yeah, if it's a flat percent and the damage isn't scaled then faster's better in that regard.

 

The cool thing about Dual Wield is that you can switch your weapons whenever you want, so chances are that you'll end up using the best 1h you can in mh and 2nd best in oh at all times--it'll probably outweigh any passive of proc benefits. Lots and lots of time to test it because you aren't ever trapping yourself into daggers or swords or anything, you can swap with no repercussions! ^.^

[Eol]

It sounds like actives are going to be fairly limited in use, because you wont have the stamina/magic points to spam them... which makes passives pretty important because they will always be there. And personally I lean towards skills that aren't so decisive by themselves but are always there to help (stat bonuses, passive regen, armor buffs, etc). It can help make a character very resilient especially in long battles. You wont be stun locking and killing enemies in 10 seconds when everything goes perfect, but usually you will be alive when others are dead.

[Musclemagic]

It sounds like actives are going to be fairly limited in use, because you wont have the stamina/magic points to spam them... which makes passives pretty important because they will always be there. And personally I lean towards skills that aren't so decisive by themselves but are always there to help (stat bonuses, passive regen, armor buffs, etc). It can help make a character very resilient especially in long battles. You wont be stun locking and killing enemies in 10 seconds when everything goes perfect, but usually you will be alive when others are dead.

 

Definitely! Passives > Actives so much in this game it's ridiculous. When building your character you need to look at all the passive options you have and then make the best 2 bars you can with actives that are bolstered by the most amount of passives you can. This is how min/maxing works in this game compared to others, choosing actives that are not only a perfect balance, but are bolstered by passives more than any other build..that's what will truly make your character the strongest!

[Musclemagic]

This is why anyone who chooses a class or even a race without looking at all the passives for the weapons and everything they want is going to suck... not only will their stam/mag/health ratios be totally off..for example, if you're a high elf and you're in light armor it changes everything compared to a khajiit in heavy armor for example.

 

This is why I LOVE this game already! HUGE skill curves when it comes to character design, which is what it should be all about- The character. ^.^

[Musclemagic]

Khajiit – Medium&Light Armor – NB – DW/Bow – Alchemist

I chose Khajiit for the extra crit damage and crit rating, I’m going to use a dagger in off-hand for 5% and then bow gives 5% passive crit chance as well. I went with medium and light armor simply so I can cast abilities more often with the regeneration passives that those armors give. I’ll be alchemy because NB gets +20% potion effectiveness.

DW- Against casters - The more Assassination abilities, the higher my % crit chance.

- Teleport Strike – M - Gap Closer

- Assassin’s Blade – M – Big finishing damage

-  Death Stroke – U - Amazing Single Target Ult

- Twin Slashes – S - Dmg + really heavy DoT

- Flurry – S - Big damage

- Hidden Blade – S - Interrupt/slow

Bow- Against melee - Kite and kill

- Cripple – M – Slow + DoT

- Strife – M – DoT + HoT

- Summon Shade – M – DoT + Weaken

- Scatter Shot – S – KB + Disorient

- Haste – M – DPS buff, need an assassination ability on bar to get +20% crit damage (and 3% more crit’s nice.)

- Consuming Darkness – U - Probably the best “oh $h!t†button in ESO..

 

I know I've done this build a few times, but I do think it's probably THE best 1v1 build.

 

Assassin's blade hitting for 20% extra damage (from DW passives) = wtf pwn.

[irons]

 

Khajiit – Medium&Light Armor – NB – DW/Bow – Alchemist

I chose Khajiit for the extra crit damage and crit rating, I’m going to use a dagger in off-hand for 5% and then bow gives 5% passive crit chance as well. I went with medium and light armor simply so I can cast abilities more often with the regeneration passives that those armors give. I’ll be alchemy because NB gets +20% potion effectiveness.

DW- Against casters - The more Assassination abilities, the higher my % crit chance.

- Teleport Strike – M - Gap Closer

- Assassin’s Blade – M – Big finishing damage

-  Death Stroke – U - Amazing Single Target Ult

- Twin Slashes – S - Dmg + really heavy DoT

- Flurry – S - Big damage

- Hidden Blade – S - Interrupt/slow

Bow- Against melee - Kite and kill

- Cripple – M – Slow + DoT

- Strife – M – DoT + HoT

- Summon Shade – M – DoT + Weaken

- Scatter Shot – S – KB + Disorient

- Haste – M – DPS buff, need an assassination ability on bar to get +20% crit damage (and 3% more crit’s nice.)

- Consuming Darkness – U - Probably the best “oh $h!t†button in ESO..

 

I know I've done this build a few times, but I do think it's probably THE best 1v1 build.

 

Assassin's blade hitting for 20% extra damage (from DW passives) = wtf pwn.

 

Personally I don't like Nightblade builds without Shadow Cloak (invisibility) but I see a major problem with your Nightblade builds you may dish out lot's of dmg but if someone survives your burst you lack survivability.

 

Cripple as your only "kite" ability is a bit thin.

[irons]

DK builds:

 

 

PvE: Tank

 

AoE: 2H: Dark Talon, Ash Field, Inferno, Inhale, Fiery Breath; Magma Armor

ST: Sword/Shield: Puncture, Dragon Blood, Low Slash, Defensive Posture, Obsidian Shield; Magma Armor

 

Playstyle:

The build is designed for Dungeons.

 

For clearing the trash you will use your 2H.

You run in while the rest of the group stays back than you bring the mobs to your group and start to kill them. Your Magicka will brun through very quickly but that's not really a problem because you will kill the mobs really quickly and than reg Magicka out of combat. Of course you wanna use Obsidian Shield before running into the mobs.

 

The Sword and Shield setup is designed for Boss fights.

You use your taunt to keep the aggro and the rest of your skills are there to make sure thta you don't die.

 

For some bosses you maybe need to switch it up or are able to go for more DPS.

 

 

PvP:

Role With this you are going to run around on the battlefield and protect your allies. So if someone attacks 1 of your healer you rush to him and either kill him or make him run away.

 

2H: Critical Charge, Inferno, Dragon Blood, Momentum, Immoveable; Magma Armor

S/S: Shield Charge/Fiery Reach, Inferno, Dragon Blood, Defensive Posture, Obsidian Shield; Magma Armor

 

Playstyle:

You want to try to keep up your buffs (Obsidian Shield, Momentum, Immoveable) use Inferno when you have Magicka and are close to an enemy this is an ability you will use often but most of the time only for a short time. Ones you come closer to a keep you will want to switch Shield Charge for Fiery Reach because with Fiery Reach you can pull players from Keep Walls. Other than that the playstyle is mostly managing your buffs and focusing on the fight.

[Thal]

DK builds:..........................Ones you come closer to a keep you will want to switch Shield Charge for Fiery Reach because with Fiery Reach you can pull players from Keep Walls. Other than that the playstyle is mostly managing your buffs and focusing on the fight.

Does Fiery Reach still pull a foe forward who is using Immovable at the time you use Fiery Reach? I would think that it would since the pull, I assume, would not technically count as a "disabling effect" right?---------- I have a feeling Marked Target, though expensive to cast, will at times be crucial for bringing some foes down. If you have a DK in Heavy armour popping off Spiked Armour every 17s and Immovable every 8 who also happens to have decent in-combat Health regen - you're going to have real problems dps'ing through the mitigation. In fact, I would doubt any NB's burst dps would ever get such a DK close enough to "low health" for them to even use Assasin's Blade and take advantage of the DW passive. In a case like that, without Marked Target, I would think that a NB would just be forced to ignore the DK and stay stealthed or die every time...----------On the topic of stamina/magicka regeneration: I agree with what everyone has been saying in regard to the biggest limitation to actives is simply the stamina/magicka consumption vs. regeneration. In light of that, does anyone know how much blocking consumes? It's hard to figure out how much stamina to leave when working on actives and trying to consider stamina used on dodges, blocking, bracing, sprinting etc. And I have a feeling that if you don't allow some room in your stamina regen to factor in these things and instead consume all your stamina through the use of actives then your character may be at severe disadvantage without having the resources for at least one of the activities I listed.If someone at lvl 50 has a shield, the shield + one-hand passives, maybe even an enchant to reduce cost of blocking - how much roughly would they be depleting their stamina for every block?

[Musclemagic]

On the topic of stamina/magicka regeneration: I agree with what everyone has been saying in regard to the biggest limitation to actives is simply the stamina/magicka consumption vs. regeneration. In light of that, does anyone know how much blocking consumes? It's hard to figure out how much stamina to leave when working on actives and trying to consider stamina used on dodges, blocking, bracing, sprinting etc. And I have a feeling that if you don't allow some room in your stamina regen to factor in these things and instead consume all your stamina through the use of actives then your character may be at severe disadvantage without having the resources for at least one of the activities I listed.

If someone at lvl 50 has a shield, the shield + one-hand passives, maybe even an enchant to reduce cost of blocking - how much roughly would they be depleting their stamina for every block?

I don't think blocking/bracing/sprinting/dodge rolling will be that stamina intensive when we're lvl 50.. but just a guess.

I have a feeling Marked Target, though expensive to cast, will at times be crucial for bringing some foes down. If you have a DK in Heavy armour popping off Spiked Armour every 17s and Immovable every 8 who also happens to have decent in-combat Health regen - you're going to have real problems dps'ing through the mitigation. In fact, I would doubt any NB's burst dps would ever get such a DK close enough to "low health" for them to even use Assasin's Blade and take advantage of the DW passive. In a case like that, without Marked Target, I would think that a NB would just be forced to ignore the DK and stay stealthed or die every time...

I agree, the defensives in this game are so much stronger than the offensives that it's ridiculous for someone with a dps build to try and 1v1 a tank.. Especially because it's not like taking a defensive ability makes you do less damage- Yes, it takes up some of your mp/st, but it appears to be way more powerful than each offensive attack. I personally think they need to increase the stam/mag cost of defensives... right now Healing is a bit gimp seeming too... but I'm sure with all the internal high-end testing they're doing they'll get it all sorted by launch.

I went off on a few topics here, but I totally agree with your post.

Personally I don't like Nightblade builds without Shadow Cloak (invisibility) but I see a major problem with your Nightblade builds you may dish out lot's of dmg but if someone survives your burst you lack survivability.

Cripple as your only "kite" ability is a bit thin.

Yeah, I just think shadowcloak is almost worthless. Different playstyles.

Hopefully between cripple and scatter shot I'll be able to get away from 1v1's with bow-speed.. at least until Ult's up and then I can slip away.

Against any other DPS though in 1v1 I think this is the strongest, against a caster DW will take them out easy and against a melee in medium or another archer.. there's no stronger 1v1 build unless you're going for a bloodknight build... which you are! XD

PvP:

Role With this you are going to run around on the battlefield and protect your allies. So if someone attacks 1 of your healer you rush to him and either kill him or make him run away.

2H: Critical Charge, Inferno, Dragon Blood, Momentum, Immoveable; Magma Armor

S/S: Shield Charge/Fiery Reach, Inferno, Dragon Blood, Defensive Posture, Obsidian Shield; Magma Armor

Playstyle:

You want to try to keep up your buffs (Obsidian Shield, Momentum, Immoveable) use Inferno when you have Magicka and are close to an enemy this is an ability you will use often but most of the time only for a short time. Ones you come closer to a keep you will want to switch Shield Charge for Fiery Reach because with Fiery Reach you can pull players from Keep Walls. Other than that the playstyle is mostly managing your buffs and focusing on the fight.

I see your playstyle, I'm sure it'll work really well but it's too passive for me to enjoy!

I couldn't use a pvp build without Fiery Reach and Searing Strike for single targets and Ash Cloud for groups. They're too strong to pass up.

Check if it gives you more than x% HP compared to the MP cost to keep one of those -x% damage shields active... because of diminishing returns on things, it's a lot better to just have one active for maximum effective HP rather than building your character to be able to use them both at the same time.

1000 hp and 1000 mp, 500 points to place, you can either take 20% less than 70% of your hp (140 hp) and put the 500 points into MP, or you can put 500 points into HP.

That's an extreme example, but you get what I'm saying? You'll need to predict your numbers and see where the tipping point lays.

-------------

As per my previous post, my favorite build so far (temp bow/resto) is going to take both Immovable and Rune Focus but I'm only going to use one or the other usually, and immovable's a stamina sink for me because I can't use much st with resto staff out. You get the difference though? Mine are situation specific while I feel like you have too much overlap so you'll have diminishing returns.

-------------

They need to get rid of Soul Shards..

Soul Shards just add a tedious element to the game. Yes, you need some kind of punishment for ressing on the spot or ressing someone else on the spot... but just make it so you can only spot-res with like 15% of hp/st/mp, and make it cost a ton of mp to res someone else. This way you wouldn't want to do it in combat even if you could cast it in battle.

Or, if anything..keep the soul shards but give us a different way to get them. Casting Soultrap on everything 10 seconds before it dies will get annoying and then at clvl50 you get them automatically anyway so what's the point of doing it while leveling up??

So far I love everything about the game except for this one little part... Oh...and I don't like siege weapons in any game..I think you should be able to use the character you worked hard for exclusively rather than getting a character all built up and then playing a Chess-Game at high end PVP instead of actually using that character. How would PVE be if you just used random weapons and crap to win high-level dungeons instead of character synergy within a group? :S

But that's off topic. I think they need to change the soul shard mechanic... Discuss?

[Thal]

 

They need to get rid of Soul Shards..

Soul Shards just add a tedious element to the game. Yes, you need some kind of punishment for ressing on the spot or ressing someone else on the spot... but just make it so you can only spot-res with like 15% of hp/st/mp, and make it cost a ton of mp to res someone else. This way you wouldn't want to do it in combat even if you could cast it in battle.

Or, if anything..keep the soul shards but give us a different way to get them. Casting Soultrap on everything 10 seconds before it dies will get annoying and then at clvl50 you get them automatically anyway so what's the point of doing it while leveling up??

So far I love everything about the game except for this one little part... Oh...and I don't like siege weapons in any game..I think you should be able to use the character you worked hard for exclusively rather than getting a character all built up and then playing a Chess-Game at high end PVP instead of actually using that character. How would PVE be if you just used random weapons and crap to win high-level dungeons instead of character synergy within a group? :S

But that's off topic. I think they need to change the soul shard mechanic... Discuss?

 

I can understand where you're coming from on this one, but how would we lay siege to a castle or keep without them? I mean I would hate to have to sit in front of a gate with 20 other people and slowly chop away at it until it finally broke. Walls would be ridiculous. You would need some mighty magical explosions to take out walls and then there would be the cost of these spells and the OP nature of them if used on other players (most likely be one-shot spells).I could see them getting rid of ballistas, catapults and trebuchets if they instead gave us ladders and/or siege towers to place against the walls and thereby have some method of scaling them. I cannot see a battering ram taking away from PvP fights and the reliance on strong builds to win fights. After all, I don't think the battering rams will have an affect in opponents.Catapults and ballistas may do large amounts of damage to enemy players for what seems like little skill to use but remember they are slow and provide much needed AoE damage to stationary enemy formations and are probably a necessary counter to preventing large amounts of stacking and combat solely happening in front of gates. Plus it gives the noobs something to use while the better players head in on foot.I do see problems such as when ballistas and catapults focus fire the tops of gateways and make it near impossible to fire arrows and spells from the top of the wall but in some ways this expands the type of combat seen in sieges because it necessitates the defenders to employ troops to rush the siege engines from behind, build opposing siege equipment, make sallies out of the gate for quick counters to break what siege weapons they can, use squads of NBs to neutralise poorly defended siege equipment, etc. Plus not having something to cover your advance as the attackers can be a touch too irritating. After all, when a defender on the wall starts taking a beating at range, he/she can slip behind the wall and regen. Cannot say the same about the attackers. And at the very least, there becomes a spot for support-style players who can cast "Siege Shield" for groups.In summary, I don't think they will be exploited as high-damage hits on defenceless trapped opponents or even have a great enough speed of projectile or rate of fire to do so, but rather will make it a little more tactical and allow a little more excitement with the wall breaks and explosions that ensue in their wake. But then again, that is fine so long as they are balanced of course. And there will be nothing more satisfying than raiding the back lines of an enemy force just as they are setting up their siege equipment and thereby wasting the resources they just spent to acquire them. Though of course, back to balancing, hopefully they aren't a spammable cheap resource but rather take some effort or expense to acquire because you will be correct in saying they detract from gameplay if they are too cheap and readily available.And if you're getting hit too much by them while engaging the enemy on foot and it's ruining your normal pvp - then as the Spartans say: "Fight in the shade".  There will always be spots they can't hit you under. ;)P.S. I agree about the soul gems/shards issue. It has great potential just to get annoying casting soul trap constantly while leveling...

[Musclemagic]

I can understand where you're coming from on this one, but how would we lay siege to a castle or keep without them? I mean I would hate to have to sit in front of a gate with 20 other people and slowly chop away at it until it finally broke. Walls would be ridiculous. You would need some mighty magical explosions to take out walls and then there would be the cost of these spells and the OP nature of them if used on other players (most likely be one-shot spells).

I could see them getting rid of ballistas, catapults and trebuchets if they instead gave us ladders and/or siege towers to place against the walls and thereby have some method of scaling them. I cannot see a battering ram taking away from PvP fights and the reliance on strong builds to win fights. After all, I don't think the battering rams will have an affect in opponents.

Catapults and ballistas may do large amounts of damage to enemy players for what seems like little skill to use but remember they are slow and provide much needed AoE damage to stationary enemy formations and are probably a necessary counter to preventing large amounts of stacking and combat solely happening in front of gates. Plus it gives the noobs something to use while the better players head in on foot.

I do see problems such as when ballistas and catapults focus fire the tops of gateways and make it near impossible to fire arrows and spells from the top of the wall but in some ways this expands the type of combat seen in sieges because it necessitates the defenders to employ troops to rush the siege engines from behind, build opposing siege equipment, make sallies out of the gate for quick counters to break what siege weapons they can, use squads of NBs to neutralise poorly defended siege equipment, etc. Plus not having something to cover your advance as the attackers can be a touch too irritating. After all, when a defender on the wall starts taking a beating at range, he/she can slip behind the wall and regen. Cannot say the same about the attackers. And at the very least, there becomes a spot for support-style players who can cast "Siege Shield" for groups.

In summary, I don't think they will be exploited as high-damage hits on defenceless trapped opponents or even have a great enough speed of projectile or rate of fire to do so, but rather will make it a little more tactical and allow a little more excitement with the wall breaks and explosions that ensue in their wake. But then again, that is fine so long as they are balanced of course. And there will be nothing more satisfying than raiding the back lines of an enemy force just as they are setting up their siege equipment and thereby wasting the resources they just spent to acquire them. Though of course, back to balancing, hopefully they aren't a spammable cheap resource but rather take some effort or expense to acquire because you will be correct in saying they detract from gameplay if they are too cheap and readily available.

And if you're getting hit too much by them while engaging the enemy on foot and it's ruining your normal pvp - then as the Spartans say: "Fight in the shade".  There will always be spots they can't hit you under.

P.S. I agree about the soul gems/shards issue. It has great potential just to get annoying casting soul trap constantly while leveling...

 

Ah, yeah.. I meant gems not shards.

 

Thanks for the good post, I didn't put much real thought into it until I read what you wrote.

I guess I feel like in most games with siege weapons the good people know how to use it and the bad people don't even try to use it, so unless I'm in a premade I always end up piloting vehicles when I should be the one out in the battlefield...it helps win the battle, but I dislike it.

You're completely right, I don't know the mechanics of it.. It could actually be amazing. If it's like..we need to move a battering ram to the gate, that could be cool.. I hope it's not like, "Spawned" things that we lose if we don't end up using though.

 

This is what I'd really like to see-- something like a timer(think bomb-deactivation in an FPS) on a battering ram that's always in place that we can activate if there's enough of us to break down a door. The rest of the battle would be fighting through hallways and such rather than trying to break down walls. I like the idea of ladders to storm walls, too. That's a great idea!

 

I do admit it adds just another layer of strategy to the game, but it always distracts me from my pwning... I'd rather storm the keep on foot like a total badass, haha

 

"Emperor" just got a new perspective for me.. it'll basically be like the battle's boss... I keep picturing Isle of Conquest in WoW where the emperor would be the boss inside the keep after we make it in.

[irons]

Yeah, I just think shadowcloak is almost worthless. Different playstyles.

 

Hopefully between cripple and scatter shot I'll be able to get away from 1v1's with bow-speed.. at least until Ult's up and then I can slip away.

 

Against any other DPS though in 1v1 I think this is the strongest, against a caster DW will take them out easy and against a melee in medium or another archer.. there's no stronger 1v1 build unless you're going for a bloodknight build... which you are! XD 

 

 

I see your playstyle, I'm sure it'll work really well but it's too passive for me to enjoy!

I couldn't use a pvp build without Fiery Reach and Searing Strike for single targets and Ash Cloud for groups. They're too strong to pass up.

 

Check if it gives you more than x% HP compared to the MP cost to keep one of those -x% damage shields active... because of diminishing returns on things, it's a lot better to just have one active for maximum effective HP rather than building your character to be able to use them both at the same time.

 

1000 hp and 1000 mp, 500 points to place, you can either take 20% less than 70% of your hp (140 hp) and put the 500 points into MP, or you can put 500 points into HP.

 

That's an extreme example, but you get what I'm saying? You'll need to predict your numbers and see where the tipping point lays.

It's a playstyle descision to not take searing strike or ash cloud. Ash cloud is a really great skill but in PvP you have to make sure that your enemy stays in your ash cloud otherwise it's just a AoE slow.

Fiery Reach is great but again on the battle field I might just use Shield Charge because it has a stun and is a Stamina based skill.

But I will definitely use Fiery Reach in other builds where I take full advantage of the build.

 

Yeah that build is a really passive one, but I like it that way it gives you the freedom to focus you more on the fight (on blocking, dodging, ...) This kind of Builds are relative easy to play but often tend to really shine in the hands of a great player.

[Thal]

It's a playstyle descision to not take searing strike or ash cloud. Ash cloud is a really great skill but in PvP you have to make sure that your enemy stays in your ash cloud otherwise it's just a AoE slow.

Fiery Reach is great but again on the battle field I might just use Shield Charge because it has a stun and is a Stamina based skill.

But I will definitely use Fiery Reach in other builds where I take full advantage of the build.

 

Yeah that build is a really passive one, but I like it that way it gives you the freedom to focus you more on the fight (on blocking, dodging, ...) This kind of Builds are relative easy to play but often tend to really shine in the hands of a great player.

I think Ash Cloud could prove more significant in a PvP fight than you think depending on your build or if it is used to support another player. I compare it to the use of static AoE slows in other MMOs, like Sticky Tar for LoreMasters in LOTRO, where you have a player deploy the aoe slow and the player then procedes to kite the enemy back and forth through the cloud/tar/aoe. If you cross back and forth through the AoE you strongly reduce the amount of incoming damage received through the melee classes not being able to catch up and hit you. I always have to remember that time is damage and lack of time hitting is a direct reduction to incoming dps which gives more opportunity to dish out 'un-answered' dps to the opponent, give HoT more pulses without sustaining damage, etc.  I've seen similar things done with great success in other MMOs and such a skill being called essential for any class that has one. Here there is more potential because not only is the slow huge (70% is ridiculous in my opinion) but a miss chance plays even more into the advantages of crossing back through and through the cloud. However, in saying that, I also have to admit the effectiveness will be dependent on the unstated radius of the skill. Anything less than 5m radius may be ineffective due to the speed of dodges and anyone can sprint as well and short distances would not drain stamina much. 14.4 seconds is not the largest duration but I believe it to be still long enough to make good use of (assuming you have the passive of course).

Fiery reach compared to Shield Charge, however, I side with you in that I too would preference Shield Charge for both the stun and the fact it uses stamina but also because it's a cheaper skill too.

 

Ah, yeah.. I meant gems not shards.

 

Thanks for the good post, I didn't put much real thought into it until I read what you wrote.

I guess I feel like in most games with siege weapons the good people know how to use it and the bad people don't even try to use it, so unless I'm in a premade I always end up piloting vehicles when I should be the one out in the battlefield...it helps win the battle, but I dislike it.

You're completely right, I don't know the mechanics of it.. It could actually be amazing. If it's like..we need to move a battering ram to the gate, that could be cool.. I hope it's not like, "Spawned" things that we lose if we don't end up using though.

 

This is what I'd really like to see-- something like a timer(think bomb-deactivation in an FPS) on a battering ram that's always in place that we can activate if there's enough of us to break down a door. The rest of the battle would be fighting through hallways and such rather than trying to break down walls. I like the idea of ladders to storm walls, too. That's a great idea!

 

I do admit it adds just another layer of strategy to the game, but it always distracts me from my pwning... I'd rather storm the keep on foot like a total badass, haha

 

"Emperor" just got a new perspective for me.. it'll basically be like the battle's boss... I keep picturing Isle of Conquest in WoW where the emperor would be the boss inside the keep after we make it in.

Haha yeah, I always imagine a horde of attackers busting through the front gate of a major castle and their first wave spilling into the courtyard only to all be leveled by a huge AoE, and as the dust settles, the second wave approach to see the Emperor and his honour guard (i.e. his guild) arrayed in front of them with the Emperor charging up his/her second AoE after giving a huge buff to the players around him/her.

And yeah, I agree in that it will eventually and ultimately depend on the design of the availability, spawning, construction and uses they allow for the siege equipment but it does have room to make the game better as well as less enjoyable. Just tell the noobs to fire the siege weapons or tell them there is some secret achievement linked to it so that they do the job instead of you and you can stay at the head of the fight on foot.

 

[irons]

I think Ash Cloud could prove more significant in a PvP fight than you think depending on your build or if it is used to support another player. I compare it to the use of static AoE slows in other MMOs, like Sticky Tar for LoreMasters in LOTRO, where you have a player deploy the aoe slow and the player then procedes to kite the enemy back and forth through the cloud/tar/aoe. If you cross back and forth through the AoE you strongly reduce the amount of incoming damage received through the melee classes not being able to catch up and hit you. I always have to remember that time is damage and lack of time hitting is a direct reduction to incoming dps which gives more opportunity to dish out 'un-answered' dps to the opponent, give HoT more pulses without sustaining damage, etc.  I've seen similar things done with great success in other MMOs and such a skill being called essential for any class that has one. Here there is more potential because not only is the slow huge (70% is ridiculous in my opinion) but a miss chance plays even more into the advantages of crossing back through and through the cloud. However, in saying that, I also have to admit the effectiveness will be dependent on the unstated radius of the skill. Anything less than 5m radius may be ineffective due to the speed of dodges and anyone can sprint as well and short distances would not drain stamina much. 14.4 seconds is not the largest duration but I believe it to be still long enough to make good use of (assuming you have the passive of course).Fiery reach compared to Shield Charge, however, I side with you in that I too would preference Shield Charge for both the stun and the fact it uses stamina but also because it's a cheaper skill too.

 

You misunderstood me. Ash Field is a really strong skill but not in that build which I posted for PvP.

I feel Ash Field really starts to shine when you combo it with other skills, like Dark Talon which makes sure that your enemy doesn't dodge out of your Ash Field.

 

If you take a look at the PvE 2H set up you see what I mean.

If you pull someone to you and pop your skills, than Dark Talon would make sure the stay where they are + deal dmg, Inferno would slow them + deal dmg, Inhale would heal your for every enemy around you + deal dmg, Fiery Breath would deal dmg to them and ash cloud would slow them and make them miss their hits and there would also be the burning damage which the 2 fire abilities cause additional.

[Thal]

You misunderstood me. Ash Field is a really strong skill but not in that build which I posted for PvP.

I feel Ash Field really starts to shine when you combo it with other skills, like Dark Talon which makes sure that your enemy doesn't dodge out of your Ash Field.

 

If you take a look at the PvE 2H set up you see what I mean.

If you pull someone to you and pop your skills, than Dark Talon would make sure the stay where they are + deal dmg, Inferno would slow them + deal dmg, Inhale would heal your for every enemy around you + deal dmg, Fiery Breath would deal dmg to them and ash cloud would slow them and make them miss their hits and there would also be the burning damage which the 2 fire abilities cause additional.

Yeah fair enough, I misunderstood what you meant and thought you meant it was not to great a skill in general.

[Soaks]

DK builds:

 

 

PvE: Tank

 

AoE: 2H: Dark Talon, Ash Field, Inferno, Inhale, Fiery Breath; Magma Armor

ST: Sword/Shield: Puncture, Dragon Blood, Low Slash, Defensive Posture, Obsidian Shield; Magma Armor

 

Playstyle:

The build is designed for Dungeons.

 

For clearing the trash you will use your 2H.

You run in while the rest of the group stays back than you bring the mobs to your group and start to kill them. Your Magicka will brun through very quickly but that's not really a problem because you will kill the mobs really quickly and than reg Magicka out of combat. Of course you wanna use Obsidian Shield before running into the mobs.

 

The Sword and Shield setup is designed for Boss fights.

You use your taunt to keep the aggro and the rest of your skills are there to make sure thta you don't die.

 

For some bosses you maybe need to switch it up or are able to go for more DPS.

 

 

PvP:

Role With this you are going to run around on the battlefield and protect your allies. So if someone attacks 1 of your healer you rush to him and either kill him or make him run away.

 

2H: Critical Charge, Inferno, Dragon Blood, Momentum, Immoveable; Magma Armor

S/S: Shield Charge/Fiery Reach, Inferno, Dragon Blood, Defensive Posture, Obsidian Shield; Magma Armor

 

Playstyle:

You want to try to keep up your buffs (Obsidian Shield, Momentum, Immoveable) use Inferno when you have Magicka and are close to an enemy this is an ability you will use often but most of the time only for a short time. Ones you come closer to a keep you will want to switch Shield Charge for Fiery Reach because with Fiery Reach you can pull players from Keep Walls. Other than that the playstyle is mostly managing your buffs and focusing on the fight.

 

I don't see why you made the 2h build pure magicka and the sword/board build balanced.

My build will be quite similar. I'm still tinkering with it though.

Please tell me what you think. As you can see my goal is to get as many of the tanking passives as I can squeeze in there. I'm also trying to keep a balance between stamina and magicka.

 

My DK PvE Tank

 

2h AoE tank

 

M. Fiery Reach - Gap closer / ranged interrupt / snare + I wont have to body-pull packs and it will give me some control

S. Cleave - AoE DoT

M. Dark Talons - Aoe dmg / AoE stun / adds Draconic tanking passives

M. Spiked armor -  toughness / adds some Draconic tanking passives

S. Immovable - Combined with spiked armor and I'll be as hard as any sword/board tank / CC immunity

 

U. DK standard - AoE Snare / Aoe dmg / Healing debuff

 

Sword/Board - Boss tank

 

S. Puncture - Taunt

S. Defensive posture - Spell reflect / + block amount

M. Obsidian shield - AoE dmg shield / + 4% stamina on use 

M. Spiked armor -  toughness / adds Draconic tanking passives

S. Low slash - Damage reduction / snare

 

U. Magma Armor - For those heavy boss hits

 

If they do allow us to stun bosses I would like to get a stun in there somehow

[irons]

I don't see why you made the 2h build pure magicka and the sword/board build balanced.

My build will be quite similar. I'm still tinkering with it though.

Please tell me what you think. As you can see my goal is to get as many of the tanking passives as I can squeeze in there. I'm also trying to keep a balance between stamina and magicka.

My DK PvE Tank

2h AoE tank

M. Fiery Reach - Gap closer / ranged interrupt / snare + I wont have to body-pull packs and it will give me some control

S. Cleave - AoE DoT

M. Dark Talons - Aoe dmg / AoE stun / adds Draconic tanking passives

M. Spiked armor - toughness / adds some Draconic tanking passives

S. Immovable - Combined with spiked armor and I'll be as hard as any sword/board tank / CC immunity

U. DK standard - AoE Snare / Aoe dmg / Healing debuff

Sword/Board - Boss tank

S. Puncture - Taunt

S. Defensive posture - Spell reflect / + block amount

M. Obsidian shield - AoE dmg shield / + 4% stamina on use

M. Spiked armor - toughness / adds Draconic tanking passives

S. Low slash - Damage reduction / snare

U. Magma Armor - For those heavy boss hits

If they do allow us to stun bosses I would like to get a stun in there somehow

The 2H is just for AoE bombing trash. After the fight I take usage of the faster out of combat reg.

I mentioned it before in this thread the way i see how people will run dungeons is, that the Tank runs in pulls the the room brings them back to the group which are standing behind in a corner out of sight for range attacks and than the whole group starts to spam AoE's

I don't think that we will be able to stun a boss, but i think that you can interrupt a boss with a stun, and your bash (right&left click) should be enough for that + you have 3 more players with you which can focus on it.

Your Build is quite simular to mine especially the Boss Tank one. I love the Battle Standard for PvP but I'm not sure if it really is that great for PvE that's why I went with Magma Armor on both skillbars.

PS: I wouldn't enter a boss fight with my 2H setup that's really just for clearing the trash, for a boss fight I would use a more balanced build.

Oh I forgot, I really like your build the only thing is I prefer a self heal instead of another dmg reduction skill (Spiked Armor) but that's something which will need some endgame testing before we can say what will be better.

[Musclemagic]

Here's the thing about group fights.. I've lead a ton of high rated (2400+ mmr) RBGs in WoW, and placement is everything.. Overextending is death, you're not going to ever really WANT to shield charge. You're always going to want to pull the kill target close to your own group rather than extend yourself. It's a hundred times more effective in group fights, so unless it's a small battle (like 3v3 or less) then shield charge isn't as good of a choice.

 

Being able to place yourself where your teammates are going to AOE and then you pull an extra guy in can make such a huge difference, and something like Ash Cloud to keep them in there is nothing short of amazing. Dark Talons might be one of the best PVP techniques possible, pair it with an archer using Volley and a temp spamming Solar Flare... It only will work with placement though, get them in a choke and use Fiery Reach over and over on all the guys outside of the area.. It's pretty much a required skill for DK PVP IMO...