Min/Max Combos (Very Early Theorycrafting)

[KenanJabr]

Did anyone else pause the vid while he was showing a couple of the morphed abilities?!!! It changes the game SO much it's ridiculous(ly awesome!!!!)

 

Yes, I did lol, and since I'm going to be a healer, when they showed the morphed form of Rushed ceremony, I was like "...wait, wtf?" hahaha. First thing I did after the live stream was go back and look at Rushed Ceremony's morph (which is a must for healers since it's morphable to AOE).  

 

As for healing, I will say I'm pretty disappointed with how important they're making AOE heals.  I've always said that healers that are AOE focused are always the easier ones, and I try to avoid them in other games (sorry Holy Priest in WOW).  Single target healing takes so much more thought.  With AOE heals, it's simply "Everyone's taking damage?  HEALING PUDDLE!"  So mindless lol.

 

I feel like healing's being put on the back burner, atm, so I suppose I'll have to wait for the open beta (or, by some miracle, closed beta) to really judge it for myself, because from what I've learned of Zenimax Online, they're not going to release videos of healing... especially since yesterday, they showed people an archer (a sophisticated dps class) and people were like "WTF THE ANIMATIONS ARE GAY, BRO."  Stupid people ruin everything.

[Musclemagic]

Yes, I did lol, and since I'm going to be a healer, when they showed the morphed form of Rushed ceremony, I was like "...wait, wtf?" hahaha. First thing I did after the live stream was go back and look at Rushed Ceremony's morph (which is a must for healers since it's morphable to AOE).  

 

As for healing, I will say I'm pretty disappointed with how important they're making AOE heals.  I've always said that healers that are AOE focused are always the easier ones, and I try to avoid them in other games (sorry Holy Priest in WOW).  Single target healing takes so much more thought.  With AOE heals, it's simply "Everyone's taking damage?  HEALING PUDDLE!"  So mindless lol.

 

I feel like healing's being put on the back burner, atm, so I suppose I'll have to wait for the open beta (or, by some miracle, closed beta) to really judge it for myself, because from what I've learned of Zenimax Online, they're not going to release videos of healing... especially since yesterday, they showed people an archer (a sophisticated dps class) and people were like "WTF THE ANIMATIONS ARE GAY, BRO."  Stupid people ruin everything.

 

I agree with you, something about healing doesn't seem that inticing in this game. I think the utility needs to be more powerful, speed boost your target when you use a single target heal or something like that.

 

I think it does look fairly well rounded though? I mean you could always choose to put the point into the nuke-heal instead of the AOE heal. Plus, the single-target heal makes it cost 68% less magicka so it's probably the better choice anyway. You can always use your HOT and other AOE (with the bigger self-heal) instead of morphing your only nuke-heal into an aoe? XD Stam/Mag regen, dispels, immune to interupts and take less damage.. I think Light Temps are a pretty cool breed, but there's just something lackluster about them. Like I said before, they need a bit more flavor in the form of utility or people won't really be playing them.

 

 

I don't want to go, "I HATE YOU! YOU DON'T LIKE HPRIESTS IN WOW!!" (lol..WoW).. but... I do have to disagree about holy priests not being fun in WoW! Haha! My friend (demo lock) and I (hpriest) were the top demo/hpriest on US for two seasons during Cata. Not saying much, since there's not many others and we were only about 2300, but it truly was the most fun I've ever had in WoW! I think it was better for RBGs too as designated tank healer because Wings and because of the speed boost on bubble utilities were gorgeous. Sure less absorbs but idk, my rating made me satisfied with rbg performance, haXD!

[Musclemagic]

I am just so fucking excited about being able to also go into all three of the talent trees at once for your chosen class! Nightblade can take Mark Target to remove targets resistances and then take the siphoning magic damage abilities..all the while you can grab Invisibility or whatever you want from Shadow.

 

So many cool options in this game! Now I need to rethink everything because of this!!!

[Musclemagic]

"Equip additional _____ spells to increase this skill's advancement."

 

So, if you want more Assassination skill than Siphoning, just put those skills on your skillbars and then combat will auto-level those up for you. Or, perhaps it's "on use" but the wording when you mouse-over a skill tree.. kind of says otherwise.

 

I personally like this more than using the ability, it makes leveling up skill trees way more user-choice friendly.

[Musclemagic]

I WANT TO BE A MEDIUM ARMOR EQUIPPING, BOW WIELDING, MAGE. Let's make it work:

 

Bow Abilities:

Snipe

Mage Abilities:

Surge

Bolt Escape

Repulse

Encase

Ultimate Ability:

Overload

 

To me this would be the most fun class to play. If you come across someone who can counter you pretty well then just run away (nobody can catch you!) The only problem is that it's so Magicka heavy for a build that you'll want a lot of Stamina on. I don't think all the +magicka and +stam regen will be enough to make up for the huge cost of Snipe when you catch someone unawares you'll want to blow your load on them..and you'll have a small load..and she'll be disappointed.

 

A good 2^nd weapon for this build would be Dual Wield or a Resto Staff. Dual wielding would be good to finish people with, and good for fighting mages who are doing too much damage output to you to counter if you don't feel like running away. A resto staff would be good if you would prefer to run away, heal up, and then get the tactical advantage and snipe their asses down.

 

ps- Use a bow with Lightning enchant on it to gain bonuses from mage's lightning passives.

[Musclemagic]

Max Bow DPS (by far the best for Bow PVE if that's what you want to do)--

Medium Armor, Bow, Templar.

 

Scattering Shot

Piercing Javelin

Sun Fire

Solar Flare

Snipe

 

*Rite of Passage

 

 

You can only use Scattering Shot within 7m, so Piercing Javelin right after Scattering Shot to push target even further back.

Sun Fire to slow them and then solar flare. If they are further than 20m then get a snipe in for the 40% extra damage!

Rite of Passage is such an awesome heal. I'm not sure yet how long it takes to get Ult up to 150 but it's a huge heal.

[Guest TheDF]

im planning on making a archer/NightBlade/Nord. The only problem i have is i dont want to use any magic abilities or abilities that look like im using magic.

 

so for the nightblade skills im looking at having Siphoning Strike / Haste as my active abilities. I would the use volley the AOE ability from the bow and a CC ability and then one more. the character would then use abilities to only deal damage or buff and siphon from enemies.

 

 

 

[Musclemagic]

Magicka only Mage. I think that a Nightblade works better for this than a Mage does, but I tried to make it work as best I could.

• [*]

ACTIVES –

 

Destro Staff Ability Bar:

Weakness to Elements-

Surge-

Encase-

Lightning Splash-

Mages Fury-

 

Resto Staff Ability Bar:

Regeneration-

Entropy-

Lightning Form-

Guardian Circle-

Bound Armor-

 

Ult:

Negate Magic-

 

• [*]

PASSIVES –

Dark Magic:

Unholy Knowledge-

Blood Magic-

Persistence-

Exploitation-

 

Daedric Summoning:

Power Stone-

 

Storm Calling:

Capacitor-

Energized-

Disintegrate-

Expert Mage-

 

Light Armor:

Evocation-

Recovery-

Spell Warding-

Prodigy-

Concentration-

 

• [*]

WHILE LEVELING –

You might want to have the following skills to make leveling faster (and unlocking your new abilities quicker by balancing your bars more evenly):

Unstable Familiar-

Winged Twilight-

Dark Exchange-

+The other three passives from Summoning.

 

While leveling I'd replace Lightning Splash with Unstable Familiar on the Destro Bar. On the Resto Bar I'd replace Bound Armor with Dark Exchange, Guardian Circle with Winged Twilight, and Lightning Form with Mages Fury. Mages Fury would then be on both bars, but it seems to be your best damaging ability, and that's more important for leveling than endgame.

[Thotholio]

wtf is this the game is still in early beta lol 

[Musclemagic]

wtf is this the game is still in early beta lol 

Yeah, the numbers and the small details will change for sure but since these are just the starting attributes of the skills I don't think they'll change a whole lot. It gives people a lot of ideas anyway.

[Musclemagic]

In this game, more than most, I think there will be a huge gap between how effective a character is in certain situations. I feel that the following is a pretty good representation of how the top-tiered players will look (There will be a lot of exceptions, where people playing them aren't built as well as they could be. This, again, is for the elite. Average players will want to do their own thing and they'll be just fine!):

 

Templar should be best for group PVE and group PVP, and not just for being able to throw out heals on occasion. They are extremely versatile while still having great DPS potential.

 

Dragonknight is best for tanking or best for max dps. A lot of the time these characteristics will be great in PVP, but these two specialties will shine definitely shine brighter in PVE.

 

Mage will be the best for Solo PVE due to Summons. Having a pocket-tank is priceless while soloing. As long as you have mana, you should never lose in a PVE fight. You can lock someone down while your pet tanks another. 2v1 and you'll never even be targeted. They are also going to be great to have in group PVP after they've unlocked more of their upper abilities.

 

Nightblade should be the best for solo PVP all-round. The utility they get is too great. While they might not be maxed out in CC like a Mage, have as wide of a spectrum as Templars, or be as niche as DKs, you will not see a nightblade coming and they will come fast. If things turn sour for them it's an easy get-a-way.

 

Obviously this is a very early assessment and things could change substantially. This is only how things currently appear to look.

[Musclemagic]

I don't understand how they are balancing melee VS ranged damage. Do melee users get a big bonus? If so that's OP. If not, then how would these class systems work where melee users don't get Anti-CC?

 

I think they need to extravagantly vamp up the anti-cc that certain weapons come with, or the PvP will be completely one sides.

[Musclemagic]

It's been a while since I posted any information on min-maxing/character creation.

 

I've realized one thing: Only TWO things really matter! This makes it very easy for min/maxers. The two things that matter are 1) Race. And 2) Class.

 

Everything other than your race and class can be changed later, and if you've already reached a higher level then it makes leveling up a lower level skill tree go faster. So, if you're a medium level and you switch to a new weapon type, you will gain much faster than if you were level 1 starting with a different weapon type than your other character.

 

This means you want to avoid making new characters at all costs, because it will take much more time. Sooo-- You want to base your choiced entirely on race & class, you can always level up a new weapon or armor type later on (at a much greater speed than re-rolling.)

 

Anyone trying to figure out what to play as, just look at the race and class abilities to decide. You'll be able to change everything else just fine anyway!

[Musclemagic]

Physical Templar with Medium armor is officially awesome! For some reason I never paid attention to "Restoring Aura" in the Restoring Light tree. Increases health AND STAMINA regeneration passively? This will definitely stack with the medium armor bonuses. I can't wait to see how far one of these bitches can sprint for, HAHA! EPIC!

[Musclemagic]

Latest build I've come up with that seems like it has potential:

Mage w/ Light Armor-

 

DESTRO (vs ranged and while not targeted)

Weakness to Elements - Debuff

Surge – Self Buff

Force Shock - Interrupt

Mages Fury - Damage

Dark Exchange//Soul Trap – Heal//Soul Shard Gatherer

 

RESTO (vs melee and while targeted)

Regeneration – Heal

Force Siphon – Heal

Lightning Form – Tank

Guardian Circle – Tank

Bound Armor – Tank

[Musclemagic]

I'm still going back and forth between Mage and Nightblade for Resto/Destro/Light Armor type class.

 

It seems that those two will be slightly better for that gearing for PvP where you want utility on your plate, while templar or dragonknight will be stronger for PVE rolls with that setup.

[Musclemagic]

This has worked in several games that allow you to designate your stats how you choose, such as Diablo 2 and mana-tanking sorces for example.

 

Awesome potential! Dig this concept-- 100% magicka. Instead of putting any points into health or stam put ALL your stat allocations into Magicka. Then take healing/damage reduction/absorption spells in one weapon slot and damage/(de)buff/CC skills in the other weapon slots... seems like it could be good for increasing EHP quite a lot, and this is how:

 

You regen stats based on how much of the stat you have, because it's % based. 5% regen per second or so (haven't timed it while watching videos yet, but I will sometime soon!) (Templar also gets 4% magicka back per spell cast..which has the potential to make your magicka nearly endless if you are casting spells around 10% your max magicka [which is low, but if you're in full light armor and such then this number goes up and your max magicka should be quite high] at 1 spell per second endlessly!!)

 

So..now..the only thing you need to worry about is being one-shot to death, but unless a couple nightstalkers snipe you from stealth who are fully bow-damage geared, I doubt this will happen anyway. I mean, SOME HP allocation might be required to avoid being one-shot, but I think this really has potential.

 

If you were a mage (they have incrs magicka, magicka regen, and lower magicka costs, too) then think about being able to Lightning-Teleport (forget the name right now..) so many times in a row, this could even be faster than a stamina templar with a bow and medium armor!

 

IDK, it's just something cool to think about-- since I haven't talked a whole lot about health/magicka/stam distribution as much as I have on spell synergy combos.

[irons]

This has worked in several games that allow you to designate your stats how you choose, such as Diablo 2 and mana-tanking sorces for example. Awesome potential! Dig this concept-- 100% magicka. Instead of putting any points into health or stam put ALL your stat allocations into Magicka..

Won't work they said that you will get enough points (49) to max out one stat and get another one to around half. So i guess that you can spend up to 30 points into one Stat.PS: A Dragonknight Mage will have some awesome survibility, cause he has a nice amount of HPs great defensive skills plus a good amount of healing because Power not only improves dmg but also healing.

[Musclemagic]

Won't work they said that you will get enough points (49) to max out one stat and get another one to around half. So i guess that you can spend up to 30 points into one Stat.PS: A Dragonknight Mage will have some awesome survibility, cause he has a nice amount of HPs great defensive skills plus a good amount of healing because Power not only improves dmg but also healing.

 

I'm sad to hear that you can max out a stat. --Each level you get to allocate 10 points into either stam, health, or magicka-- So you could get like 33 of your levels into magicka and the rest into health? Can you provide the source for this, I don't think I've heard that before.

 

A dragonknight with destro/resto staves? Yeah, there's a lot of +healing and +health regeneration. If you max out HP then that could be pretty good, but I don't think the DK class has that great defensive abilities. scale armor, dragon heal thing, spiked armor, and possibly obsidian shield are pretty sick defensives. And the Magic Resistance from DK passives is helpful for defense, but if you're in light armor then you'll already have a lot of magic resistance and you'd be better off focusing on Armor like from the Mage's talents (bound armor) or damage reduction (lightning form). I think dragonknight has the least amount of survival in PVP situations, because it's all kind of slow/passive abilities rather than reactive abilities that shine in specific situations.

 

I think Dragonknight will be the best DPS for PVE with Destro Stave too, unless Nightblade's "Marked Target" is really effective at higher levels, which I think it could be. But idk, I don't care much for PVE anyways.

 

They all definitely have potential, I just think DK's too hybrid feeling between melee and magic to shine in PVP where puritans rein supreme.

[irons]

I'm sad to hear that you can max out a stat. --Each level you get to allocate 10 points into either stam, health, or magicka-- So you could get like 33 of your levels into magicka and the rest into health? Can you provide the source for this, I don't think I've heard that before. 

was in an article of mmorpg.com nearly a year ago back than several other sources said the same thing. So it could have changed but if so they didn't mentioned anything. Your mounts will also have 3 stats speed, stamina and storage you can feed than max 30 times and depending on the food you improve one stat. source here is shoddy cast.The DK can reduce the incoming dmg with obsidian shield plus spiked armor for 70% and you could use the ultimate which caps the dmg at 3% plus with dragon blood heals for 25% gives you HP regneration and improves your received healing.I mean you can put down lots of Dots on your target than give your self defensiv buffs plus regeneration to stay alive and keep refreshing those DoTs. Seems to me a pretty nasty build for PvP but we will have to see how it will work out in game.

[Musclemagic]

was in an article of mmorpg.com nearly a year ago back than several other sources said the same thing. So it could have changed but if so they didn't mentioned anything.Your mounts will also have 3 stats speed, stamina and storage you can feed than max 30 times and depending on the food you improve one stat. source here is shoddy cast.The DK can reduce the incoming dmg with obsidian shield plus spiked armor for 70% and you could use the ultimate which caps the dmg at 3% plus with dragon blood heals for 25% gives you HP regneration and improves your received healing.I mean you can put down lots of Dots on your target than give your self defensiv buffs plus regeneration to stay alive and keep refreshing those DoTs. Seems to me a pretty nasty build for PvP but we will have to see how it will work out in game.

 

Yeah, we'll have to see how it plays out. Every class can tank well if they try to, but as a staff user you'll want light armor so it won't fair well against melee attackers. Magic vs Melee will be a kite-fest in this game, for sure, you'll be trying to distance yourself from the melee user the whole time if you're using magic. This will be a lot less magicka intensive (and probably still take less damage) than if you're using tanking spells to just take the damage.

That's why I don't like DK staff users in PVP. DK abilities are good at keeping enemies near you, not away from you.

I think the best DPS (I think they'll be best 1h/shield tanks though) combo for DK is using Ash Cloud (best slow in the game for keeping them on you) with a 2H (2H applies "burn/chill/frost" effects 100% of the time--so if you have a burning 2H you'll apply the burn effect which is amplified by the DK's abilities a lot.) Using Critical Charge with it in case they lightning bolt out of it or stun and run, uppercut and then lava whip to throw them off balance, and also since Searing Strike is melee range (and huge huge damage) I think it'll be best used on melee users... I doubt you'd even be able to get it off, ever, in a magic vs magic fight against any other class that's kiting you.

I do acknowledge that you'd be able to tank a lot, but you'll run out of magicka too quick if you get focused.

I really like the DK class, I keep trying to make Staff builds that work--It LOOKS like it should be able to work, but it just ends up not being as good as the others no matter what talents I replace in there.

 

Would you mind posting the build that you plan on using as DK+Staves, There's probably a huge oversight I'm missing.

[Musclemagic]

Here are the most viable looking stave builds I've come up with so far:

Mage- Best Damage, Strong Defense vs Melee

Destro Staff (while not being focused and VS casters)

Weakness to Elements - Debuff

Surge – Self Buff

Force Shock - Interrupt

Mages Fury - Damage

Dark Exchange – Replenish Health/Magicka (costs Stamina)

 

Resto Staff (while being focused and VS melee)

Regeneration – Heal

Force Siphon – Heal

Lightning Form – Tank

Guardian Circle – Tank

Bound Armor – Tank

 

 

Templar- Best Defense, Very Good Offense for Kiting

Resto Staff (on a when-needed basis)

• [*]

Entropy – Regen Mag./Dot

[*]

Regenerate – Heal

[*]

Healing Ritual – Heal

[*]

Guardian Circle – Tank

[*]

Rune Focus – Tank

 

Destro Staff (really well rounded offense, not as much damage output as Mage but still very nice)

• [*]

Eclipse – Anti-caster - Target targets itself with single target negative spells.

[*]

Sunfire – Anti-melee - Slow/Damage

[*]

Piercing Javelin – Anti-melee - Knockback/Damage

[*]

Force Shock – Interrupt

[*]

Destructive Touch – Damange/CC

[*]

 

 

Nightblade- Kind of a passive killer, but it should work fantastically

Destro Staff (Open with this and get buffed/debuff them.)

• [*]

Cripple – Dot/Slow

[*]

Mark Target – Debuff

• [*]

Weakness to Elements – Debuff

[*]

Drain Power – Buff/Debuff

[*]

Haste – Attack Speed

 

Resto Staff (Switch to this and let your passive damage do the work while you self-heal)

• [*]

Entropy – Regen Mag.

[*]

Strife – Dot/Heal

[*]

Summon Shade – Dot/debuff

[*]

Haste – Attack Speed

[*]

Force Siphon – Heal on Attack

[irons]

 2H applies "burn/chill/frost" effects 100% of the time--so if you have a burning 2H you'll apply the burn effect which is amplified by the DK's abilities a lot.

The passiv doesn't trigger effects like burn/chill and so to 100% it just increases it by a 100%. There are weapon which have 5% chance to trigger burn with the passiv it then would be 10%. The first time I read I also thought it would be a 100% :-)

[irons]

I'm still working on my build but I thought about something like this:

 

 

Altmer Dragonknight Mage

 

Destruction Staff:

Obsidian Shield/Destructive Touch

Fire Breath

Searing Strike

Impulse

Weakness of Elements

 

Ultimate: Dragonknight Standard

 

 

Restoration Staff:

Regeneration

Fire Breath/Entropy

Dragon Blood

Spiked Armor

Obsidian Shield

 

Ultimate: Magma Armor

 

 

The biggest downside for me is that I currently don't have a Stun.

Kiting won't be easy in this game because you don't have cooldowns on abilities like the Teleport from the Nightblade which is also a stun.

If someone tries to kite me I just stay at range and use my range abilities and when someone gets in close than I drop everything I have.

But I'm not completly happy with it, but as long we don't know each and every morph it will be hard to nail it down.

[Musclemagic]

The passiv doesn't trigger effects like burn/chill and so to 100% it just increases it by a 100%. There are weapon which have 5% chance to trigger burn with the passiv it then would be 10%. The first time I read I also thought it would be a 100% :-)

Yeah, I just worded it weird, double the amount is still huge.

 

 

I'm still working on my build but I thought about something like this:

 

 

Altmer Dragonknight Mage

 

Destruction Staff:

Obsidian Shield/Destructive Touch

Fire Breath

Searing Strike

Impulse

Weakness of Elements

 

Ultimate: Dragonknight Standard

 

 

Restoration Staff:

Regeneration

Fire Breath/Entropy

Dragon Blood

Spiked Armor

Obsidian Shield

 

Ultimate: Magma Armor

 

 

The biggest downside for me is that I currently don't have a Stun.

Kiting won't be easy in this game because you don't have cooldowns on abilities like the Teleport from the Nightblade which is also a stun.

If someone tries to kite me I just stay at range and use my range abilities and when someone gets in close than I drop everything I have.

But I'm not completly happy with it, but as long we don't know each and every morph it will be hard to nail it down.

 

I think you'll only be able to have 1 ultimate slotted, unaffected by weapon swaps..but I'm not sure, I do know that in the quakecon gameplay video the ultimate doesn't swap--but he may just have it double slotted? It makes sense that it would be, because you could use a cheap and an expensive one if you need to rely on it right away. 

 

This build is a lot like my mage build, where when they get on you you switch to Resto and pop defensives. In 1v1 though the mage would outdamage you unless you were on top of him. I'd highly recommend reflective scale for your ranged section instead of any up close abilties, that way you can caster vs caster/bow much easier. VS melee when you switch to your resto build you are very similar to my mage, but I actually like your DK resto build a lot more than my Mage's. I just think offensively you're going to have huge problems because you will lose to melee and you'll lose to casters. Your heals aren't good for other people. And, you're not a real tank..so what are you going to actually be trying to do with this? Run around and not die for a bit in resto slots? I really don't see who you'd be able to kill in 1v1 with this build unless you can outlast melee in your resto build, but I doubt that because you simply have no +armor which is your first mitigation source.. (not that this matters, because you should have more mitigation than most, but it's one thing that the mage build is better in vs melee, 300 more armor is probably a lot considering he had like 250 in medium armor at level 17(?) in the quakecon video.)

 

I think kiting will be pretty easy actually, stuns/roots are expensive for melee users while knockbacks and slows aren't expensive for casters at all. The only time you'll be on someone knocking you back is when you use charge abilities like teleport strike, but those cost high magicka on a character who'll have mostly stamina. The best gap closer for melee is the 1h/shield charge for 48 stamina with a stun, the 2h charge is next best because it also costs stamina, but it's damage only. Your best bet is using things like Heavy Armor's active ability to be immune to knockback (iirc).

 

I actually think I'm going to play as that Templar build I posted. Defense- for the magicka while using a resto staff, this is amazing. Healing Ritual with Regenerate Ticking = very mana efficient, throw on Rune Focus if you are worried about getting interrupted and entropy on everything when you can to get magicka back. Guardian Circle, of course, since it appears to be the best armor/magic resistance buff in game, 12s--although I might replace Guardian Circle with the Templar's dispel ability (forget name) if it seems more useful in PvP--which it probably will be.. And, during offense- between Sunfire/Piercing Javelin/Destructive Force melee won't touch me. Casters will get fucked by Eclipse and Force Shock. It might take a long time to finish someone, but I'd feel pretty chummy in the process. 

 

All just speculation mate, nobody knows anything for sure.