Thanks again well before I made Skyrim Vaniila again and it was fine, so then I reinstalled most of the recommended apps. Checked, it was fine. Install RealVision stuff and do all the steps, water crash. I really want to use RealVision but this shouldn't happen. I also did what you just said. Contains dirty edits: 92 ITM, 3 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here. would this ^ affect anything?