Jump to content

Photo

Min/Max Combos (Very Early Theorycrafting)


  • Please log in to reply
360 replies to this topic

#91
irons

irons

  • Member
  • 428 Posts

So i can skill ability/passiv A before i have to unlock ability/passiv B and vice versa?

Yes, at least that's the current state.

 

I actually will use heavy armor only.

The stats I wrote down is just how my priority looks like. I will try to get enough Stamina/Magicka so that I can fight effecive and the rest goes into HP.

 

We don't know how much Stamina/Health/Magicka a lvl 50 with max gear will have and how the high the costs are for the different skills. But I'm sure Zenimax will design it so you can't spam your abilities without thinking but that you will have enough points to keep fighting smooth and fun.



Advertisement

The discussion continues after this sponsored message. Tired of seeing advertisements? Create an account to remove them.


#92
Soaks

Soaks

  • Member
  • 46 Posts

I would like to go with a pure stamina/hp build for my DK tank, but it seems a poor choice when comparing the skills available in the DK trees to those of the sword/board tree

 

Mainly because the sword/board tree lack AoE abilities, making me think it would suck when clearing trash (and the Fighters Guild skills just seem bad)

But perhaps the leveled/evolved skills could make it worth it?

 

Making a pure stamina/hp or pure magicka/hp tank, sadly, seems doomed to fail.

Like irons says, we will probably have to spread the points to make an effective tank build as DK. :(



#93
irons

irons

  • Member
  • 428 Posts

I would like to go with a pure stamina/hp build for my DK tank, but it seems a poor choice when comparing the skills available in the DK trees to those of the sword/board tree Mainly because the sword/board tree lack AoE abilities, making me think it would suck when clearing trash (and the Fighters Guild skills just seem bad)But perhaps the leveled/evolved skills could make it worth it? Making a pure stamina/hp or pure magicka/hp tank, sadly, seems doomed to fail.Like irons says, we will probably have to spread the points to make an effective tank build as DK. :(

First I wanted to make a HP/Magicka build but it seems to be more effective to have a balance between Stamina and MagickaThat way you can use the full amount of your ressources.

#94
Musclemagic

Musclemagic

  • Member
  • 593 Posts

The strategy of this game will hopefully come from when we use our abilities, more than what abilities we have active. I think passives will be huge, keeping out Magelight/Summons/etc. while keeping maybe ONE offensive ability and ONE defensive ability might turn out to be the very best option in almost all situations.

 

This would be due to the lack of being able to use abilities as frequently as desired.. The reason why I hope that it's like this is simply because without any cooldowns it would cause huge imbalances. Of course they need to scale things perfectly or else the difference will still be huge.

 

Yes, certain abilities like Dragon Blood will cost a huge amount of our resources.. but I think it will play similarly (even at endgame) to that of the gameplay videos-- About one activated ability every 2-4 seconds seems right.



#95
Musclemagic

Musclemagic

  • Member
  • 593 Posts

I would like to go with a pure stamina/hp build for my DK tank, but it seems a poor choice when comparing the skills available in the DK trees to those of the sword/board tree

 

Mainly because the sword/board tree lack AoE abilities, making me think it would suck when clearing trash (and the Fighters Guild skills just seem bad)

But perhaps the leveled/evolved skills could make it worth it?

 

Making a pure stamina/hp or pure magicka/hp tank, sadly, seems doomed to fail.

Like irons says, we will probably have to spread the points to make an effective tank build as DK. :(

 

 

First I wanted to make a HP/Magicka build but it seems to be more effective to have a balance between Stamina and MagickaThat way you can use the full amount of your ressources.

 

Even as a full HP/Magicka build, you'll want some stamina for heavy attacks and sprinting/dodge-rolling (esp. if you're not in light armor).

 

Even as full HP/Stam you'll need MP for some abilities, no matter how badly you want to avoid it..you're doing a huge disservice to yourself if you don't take some MP.

 

I am trying to go 100% HP/Magicka on nearly a 1hp:2mp ratio. But, I believe that I'll absolutely require a bit of additional stam to not be gimped on the battlefield.



#96
Rally

Rally

  • Member
  • 79 Posts

Making a pure stamina/hp or pure magicka/hp tank, sadly, seems doomed to fail.

Like irons says, we will probably have to spread the points to make an effective tank build as DK. :(

If u went high magicka/decent stam, you should be able to have some stam management with the use of "Helping Hands".Overall i think the Earthen Heart passivs make a good stam and magicka build. Depends on "Deep Breaths" thou.



#97
Musclemagic

Musclemagic

  • Member
  • 593 Posts

Being more into either stamina or magicka, and not mixed in between (as much as possible) will be best.

 

It wouldn't be, if the only stats were +X Magicka, +X Stamina, or +X Health... But it looks like a lot of the time it's going to be +Xof stam, mp, or hp.

 

If you think about synergies at all, this is the most important thing. +20% of 150 is more than +10% of 125 and +10% of 125.. You get a lot more out of your stat buffs if you're a purebread. Even in this low of an example it's still almost 17% more effective (+30 stats rather than +25 from the %'s).

 

If I was going 2h or 1h/shield DK (especially with Heavy) then I'd definitely go as minimally into Magicka as possible... Especially if you plan on having a pocket healer friend with you, rather than relying on your DK tanking as much..

 

It really does depend entirely on your build. I'd like to make a 100% stamina build as my next toon (in a long long time...after my 100% magicka!) Being as pure as possible is best, by a long shot...



#98
Soaks

Soaks

  • Member
  • 46 Posts

Being more into either stamina or magicka, and not mixed in between (as much as possible) will be best.

 

It wouldn't be, if the only stats were +X Magicka, +X Stamina, or +X Health... But it looks like a lot of the time it's going to be +Xof stam, mp, or hp.

 

If you think about synergies at all, this is the most important thing. +20% of 150 is more than +10% of 125 and +10% of 125.. You get a lot more out of your stat buffs if you're a purebread. Even in this low of an example it's still almost 17% more effective (+30 stats rather than +25 from the %'s).

 

If I was going 2h or 1h/shield DK (especially with Heavy) then I'd definitely go as minimally into Magicka as possible... Especially if you plan on having a pocket healer friend with you, rather than relying on your DK tanking as much..

 

It really does depend entirely on your build. I'd like to make a 100% stamina build as my next toon (in a long long time...after my 100% magicka!) Being as pure as possible is best, by a long shot...

 

Ye, this was kind of my thinking as well. Math isn't my strong suit, but I'll trust that most of those scary numbers you hurled at me supported your conclusion :)

 

I hope that some of those stamina consuming skills, when leveled, will allow for more than single target tanking.

 

Big ups to you for keeping this thread alive. I've learned a lot from reading it.



#99
irons

irons

  • Member
  • 428 Posts
If you have 1 major ressource you get more out of a +10% bonus or a higher reg boost.However we have seen that a lvl 50 char will have around 1000 points each as a base. It would be a waste of ressources if you wouldn't use those points. Therefore everyone should have at least a few skills which Stamina/Magicka.So the most effective builds will be those which focus on 1 ressource but use both ressources.

#100
Soaks

Soaks

  • Member
  • 46 Posts

If you have 1 major ressource you get more out of a +10% bonus or a higher reg boost.However we have seen that a lvl 50 char will have around 1000 points each as a base. It would be a waste of ressources if you wouldn't use those points. Therefore everyone should have at least a few skills which Stamina/Magicka.So the most effective builds will be those which focus on 1 ressource but use both ressources.

Ye, running around with that much unused magicka seems foolish. So perhaps something like 4/5 of my skills should be stamina consuming.

And the magicka skill should preferably be a resource dump. I guess most skills in this game could be used as dumps, but there are some less situational than others. I'll have to think about this some more.



#101
irons

irons

  • Member
  • 428 Posts

Ye, running around with that much unused magicka seems foolish. So perhaps something like 4/5 of my skills should be stamina consuming.And the magicka skill should preferably be a resource dump. I guess most skills in this game could be used as dumps, but there are some less situational than others. I'll have to think about this some more.

I don't know your build but maybe you could to well with Obsidian Shield. It's an AoE dmg shield which is twice as strong for the DK and you gain stamina when using it on other players.

#102
Thal

Thal

  • Member
  • 142 Posts

Hey guys,I've been following your comments about various possibilities for Tanks and want to throw a couple ideas your way to see what you think. With what we know so far I'm leaning toward either a DK or Templar tank. I also intend to duo tank with a replica set up for my brother. I want to use both stamina and magicka in my builds but I believe that stamina needs to be preferenced as the importance of blocking cannot be undervalued and despite cost reductions to it - blocking will still require significant stamina to maintain in long fights or fights against multiple opponents.Before I type out my two suggested builds, I just want to say I have also made a big decision to include the heavy armour active skill "Immovable" for both builds. I believe the extra mitigation and CC immunity is vital so long as it is possible to maintain the effects constantly despite the fact that it will chew through huge amounts of stamina. Most DPS is going to be done to a tank when you are stunned/disabled because let's face it - there is nothing to stop a tank being chain-stunned and dps'ed down. Plus when you're disabled/stunned you are unable to block or even dodge which means incoming damage is naturally increased and everyone, I mean everyone with half a brain, opens up with their big combos and skills on a target once it is stunned as they know their skills will land for certain.Hence these are my two proposed builds (both attempting to keep "Immovable" active constantly when in combat):Note: These builds are for PVP and the Templar build is meant to be used as a duo with another templar who has the same set up. Ultimates are not being considered here as they are not reliable as finesse can be gained and lost in battle and therefore are not skills that are certainties

TEMPLAR TANK:Race: RedguardEquipment: Sword and ShieldArmour: Full Heavy armourStat distribution from leveling: Stamina maxed; rest on magickaStats on armour: Primary stat is health; secondary stat is stamina regen (though not sure how many stats gear can have at this point)Skills: 1. Low Slash. 2. Shield charge 3.Rune focus 4. Healing Ritual 5. ImmovablePassives: 1. Heal line for templar passives (especially Focused Healing!!!) 2. Sword and board passives

3. Restoring Spirit 4. Redguard racial passivesWith two Templars using this set up, both have CC immunity, both have a slow and a charge skill with 2s stun, both have high mitigation, and if both stand next to each other and routinely use Rune focus followed by Healing Ritual, not only will they not be able to be stunned or interrupted, but thanks to the heal skill and the Focused Healing passive, they will both receive huge huge heals from this combination which takes 2 seconds to execute and will have 30% extra mits while executing the heal. The passives which reduces magicka cost for healing ritual and relatively low magicka cost of rune focus makes it a relatively cost-effective use of magicka for heals as well as not requiring heals to often thanks to mitigation supplied by immovable (20%) and heavy armour + sword and board. The question is whether stamina regen can keep up with use though redguard passives ensure greater stamina, stamina regen and stamina on normal attack use.Note: if stamina regen was not sufficient to maintain Immovable constantly: use the following instead at the sacrifice of much less effective heals:

1. Low Slash.2. Shield charge3.Rushed Ceremony4. Restoring Aura5. ImmovableRushed ceremony has less effective and more costly heal that does not best utilise the heal line passives, but restoring aura may provide much needed extra stamina (as well as health) regen.Dragon Knight TANK BUILD:

Race: RedguardEquipment: Sword and ShieldArmour: Full Heavy armourStat distribution from leveling: Stamina maxed; rest on magickaStats on armour: Primary stat is health; secondary stat is stamina regen (though not sure how many stats gear can have at this point)Skills: 1. Low Slash. 2. Shield charge 3.Spiked Armour 4. Obsidian Shield 5. ImmovablePassives: 1. Draconic Power passives 2. Sword and board passives 3. Earthern passives 4. Redguard racial passivesAgain with this Build for a tank - there is CC immunity. However, with the DK tank there is significantly greater mitigation thanks to Spiked Armour and Obsidian Shield. Both skills use magicka but are relatively cheap to use, especially since Spiked Armour only has to be used every 17s. The DK class passives add to mitigation and stamina return also. However, the big disadvantage is the lack of heals. I could trade out Obsidian shield for a heal but the DK class heal skills seem expensive (in regard to magicka cost) and don't give too much in the way of heals. Of course, not an issue if I'm running around not only with my brother but with a dedicated healer too (in which case DK passives will help with incoming heal anyway).In Conclusion:As I said, I want this to be a PvP intended Tank and want to run as a 2-man self sufficient squad with my one other player who uses a similar or exact copy of my own set up.I have not included a Secondary Weapon Swap as I will most likely use the Weapon Swap for a ranged weapon (Bow most likely) for situation when literally MUST stay at range, e.g. on the wall of a friendly keep.If you guys see flaws with either builds or better alternatives, PLEASE feel free to be as critical as you wish. I am open to all comments on these builds and welcome feedback. Even if you can suggest opponent set ups that could cause trouble in PvP for these builds. And yes, I really do love the idea of CC immunity given how many classes will rely on being able to CC others in PvP so I am not too willing or keen to give up on the idea of a sustained use of "Immovable". :PThanks guys!(P.S. Sorry for the enormous post)



#103
irons

irons

  • Member
  • 428 Posts

If you to play together with your brother I would use an alternate build, so that you have the same skills but different hotbars.

 

 

DK Redguard build 2 Handed:

 

The skills you wanna use are.

 

Immovable

Dark Talon

Ash Field

Obsidian Shield

Inferno

Fiery Reach

Lava Whip

Inhale

Momentum

...

...

 

For the last to 2 skills you could take pretty much anything.

 

 

Playstyle.

 

1. Use Obsidian Shield to protect you and your brothe, activate Immovable + Momentum

2. Use fiery reach to pull enemys to you

3. Activate inferno to deal dmg

4. use dark talon to immobolize them + deal dmg

5. use ashfield so that they can't hurt you

6. use lava whip to keep them of balance

 

Basically you keep them cain CC, you use Immovable to be immune to CC and you use Obsidian shield + Ash field so that you take less dmg + you deal a punch of AoE dmg through Inhale,Dark Talon, Inferno and Splash dmg from your 2Hander + they are perma snared through Inferno and Ash Field.



#104
Rally

Rally

  • Member
  • 79 Posts

I thought abt some build like that aswell (Dark Talons, Ash Field, Inferno, Inhale)

 

I would have put a DW Sorc with Lightning Form, Lightning Splash and Mages Fury in the Mix. Should work well to finish ppl of faster with DW Passivs Death Stroke and Ruffian.So in the end u better get a complete 4 man grp with 2 of the above 1 dedicated healer and 1 DW SorcThen Just Bomb Ppl



#105
irons

irons

  • Member
  • 428 Posts
A other thingWhen you swap weapon sets you put away your weapon and pull out your other weapon which takes about a second.But what if you use only 1 weapon does your skillbar than change instantly?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Not a member? Sign up!

Create Account
Already have an account? Sign in!
Logo

A place for Elder Scrolls fans.

4,749 Members 5,241 Discussions 35,399 Replies
This site is not affiliated with ZeniMax Media Inc. or any of its subsidiaries.
© 2018 ElderSouls.com